Boat Momentum Efficiency Challenge

[Ezriilc]

@seanthCorrect me if I'm wrong please, but if the Part score is done in kilograms rather than tonnes, isn't my score 297,886.27 instead of 297.89?  I like it either way, but I want scoring to be clear.

[seanth]

6 minutes ago, Ezriilc said:

@seanthCorrect me if I'm wrong please, but if the Part score is done in kilograms rather than tonnes, isn't my score 297,886.27 instead of 297.89?  I like it either way, but I want scoring to be clear.

That's correct. I think all the other scores are done using tonnes, so might as well stay consistent.

 

Might be another day before I get my submission up. I'm really pleased with it so far, but it just...can't...quite...catch you. I feel like I'm in some weird localized optima design-wise where I just can't seem to lick the various shimmies.

 

Edited July 13, 2016 by seanth

[Ezriilc]

20 minutes ago, seanth said:

Might be another day before I get my submission up. I'm really pleased with it so far, but it just...can't...quite...catch you. I feel like I'm in some weird localized optima design-wise where I just can't seem to lick the various shimmies.

That's weak sauce, @seanth.  Do not enter that sauce in the county fair, because it's weak. 

[Ezriilc]

What about you, @SpannerMonkey(smce)?  You just gonna let me walk away with the trophy? 

[seanth]

1 hour ago, Ezriilc said:

That's weak sauce, @seanth.  Do not enter that sauce in the county fair, because it's weak. 

lol

Ok. Regardless of whether I can match your score, I'll put something up tomorrow. This is proving to be pretty hard. I'm not used to building fast boats.

[The_Rocketeer]

My first-pitch entry, the Soviet R:

If I've done the maths right, I think my scores are...

Parts efficiency score: 149.9 = (118.722 t * 78.3 m/s) / 62 parts
Fuel efficiency score: 46966.95 = (719.8 kN * 78.3 m/s) / 1.20 L/s
Momentum score: 7746.6 = (118.722 t * 78.3 m/s) / 1.20 L/s

I will try to refine and go again - watch this space

[Ezriilc]

@The_Rocketeer, can we get a copy of your .craft file?  I love seeing other people's work.

BTW, that is a respectable entry.  Well done! 

[The_Rocketeer]

Suggestion - since fuel efficiency is much easier with lower masses, can we add a mean-score to the top post as an abstract of best all-round design?

@Ezriilc I'll try to remember to upload 2moro, my bed is beckoning. I still have a few issues to resolve anyway - latest revisions have made it less stable

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

10 hours ago, Ezriilc said:

What about you, @SpannerMonkey(smce)?  You just gonna let me walk away with the trophy? 

Nope, currently in RnD ,  running into stability issues at +150, still working on a revised version, thought i had it last night , 200+ on a wiff of fuel, and not flying, until i loaded the craft into a vanilla save and discovered that the tiny ctrl srf that had been the  key to success was a mod part (profuse cursing etc edited) I think I've reached the limit on the light cat design though. I will post the craft, just so many other projects and even with 24hrs a day it's not quite enough time to do everything i want  

[swjr-swis]

Been interested in this challenge since it mentions part efficiency, speed and boat... but after reading this far, I'm still somewhat confused about the requirements and the scoring.

I have a tiny pure stock boat from back in 1.0.5 that potentially might do well on the part efficiency and speed combination, but I'm not sure if it somehow runs afoul of some other requirement. 10 parts for the boat (most of the 44 parts in the craft file are the detachable undercarriage that just rolls it to the water), 80-90m/s top speeds achievable (90.4 recorded).

The undercarriage at least will need to be reworked for 1.1.3 (wheels... ugh), and the boat itself might need a bit retouching for this challenge... does it have a shot as a proper entry, or does it disqualify off the bat for some reason?

https://kerbalx.com/swjr-swis/TinyBoat02c

[Ezriilc]

1 hour ago, swjr-swis said:

Been interested in this challenge since it mentions part efficiency, speed and boat... but after reading this far, I'm still somewhat confused about the requirements and the scoring.

I have a tiny pure stock boat from back in 1.0.5 that potentially might do well on the part efficiency and speed combination, but I'm not sure if it somehow runs afoul of some other requirement. 10 parts for the boat (most of the 44 parts in the craft file are the detachable undercarriage that just rolls it to the water), 80-90m/s top speeds achievable (90.4 recorded).

The undercarriage at least will need to be reworked for 1.1.3 (wheels... ugh), and the boat itself might need a bit retouching for this challenge... does it have a shot as a proper entry, or does it disqualify off the bat for some reason?

https://kerbalx.com/swjr-swis/TinyBoat02c

If it's all stock, then I think it qualifies, but @seanth is the boss of this challenge.  We're not worrying about wheels/undercarriage - just use HyperEdit.

Thanks for sharing it, I'm gonna give her a run.

[Ezriilc]

@swjr-swis, that is a great little boat!  I'm fascinated by the design.  I got it up to 66.3 m/s, but you could get rid of the battery and maybe do without the rudders to go even faster.  I don't think the physics have changed much since 1.0.5.

I know of no reason it can't be used in this challenge, but I'm afraid it doesn't beat my entry.  Here was the scores I got from it:

Original:
Parts:  0.769 * 66.3 / 12 = 4.25
Fuel:   18.29 * 66.3 / 0.06 = 20,210.45
Momentum:  0.769 * 66.3 / 0.06 = 849.745

My mods (removed battery, reaction wheel, rudders):
Parts:  0.629 * 66.5 / 8 = 5.23
Fuel:   18.29 * 66.5 / 0.06 = 20,271.42
Momentum:  0.629 * 66.5 / 0.06 = 697.14

Still - killer build.  I'm sure you can place well in this challenge with a bespoke craft.

4 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Nope, currently in RnD ,  running into stability issues at +150, still working on a revised version, thought i had it last night , 200+ on a wiff of fuel, and not flying, until i loaded the craft into a vanilla save and discovered that the tiny ctrl srf that had been the  key to success was a mod part (profuse cursing etc edited) I think I've reached the limit on the light cat design though. I will post the craft, just so many other projects and even with 24hrs a day it's not quite enough time to do everything i want  

I can't seem to break through 150 either - I still get porpoising, but I have been focusing on very large, heavy craft.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with, and trying your ships.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Ezriilc
Added stats for my mods.

[seanth]

13 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

My first-pitch entry, the Soviet R:

If I've done the maths right, I think my scores are...

Parts efficiency score: 149.9 = (118.722 t * 78.3 m/s) / 62 parts
Fuel efficiency score: 46966.95 = (719.8 kN * 78.3 m/s) / 1.20 L/s
Momentum score: 7746.6 = (118.722 t * 78.3 m/s) / 1.20 L/s

I will try to refine and go again - watch this space

That is a beautiful looking craft!

3 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

Been interested in this challenge since it mentions part efficiency, speed and boat... but after reading this far, I'm still somewhat confused about the requirements and the scoring.

I have a tiny pure stock boat from back in 1.0.5 that potentially might do well on the part efficiency and speed combination, but I'm not sure if it somehow runs afoul of some other requirement. 10 parts for the boat (most of the 44 parts in the craft file are the detachable undercarriage that just rolls it to the water), 80-90m/s top speeds achievable (90.4 recorded).

The undercarriage at least will need to be reworked for 1.1.3 (wheels... ugh), and the boat itself might need a bit retouching for this challenge... does it have a shot as a proper entry, or does it disqualify off the bat for some reason?

https://kerbalx.com/swjr-swis/TinyBoat02c

Tiny boat looks totally legit. It's got a Kerbal, is made with stock parts, and doesn't completely leave the water. I'd say get a screenshots showing speed, fuel usage, thrust, parts, and mass and you are good to go.

[seanth]

Ship name: Crick in my Neck

 

Mass: 80.806 tonne; Velocity: 90.6 m/s; Thrust: 642.8 kN; Fuel usage: 1.04 L/s; Parts: 62

• Mom. Part eff. score: (80.806*90.6)/1.04=118.08
• Fuel score: (642.8*90.6)/1.04=55,997.77
• Momentum/L: (80.806*90.6)/1.04=7039.45

Design consideration spoilers:

Spoiler

• I found that having a source of lift in the water near the COM is beneficial to getting most of the craft out of the water, but caused major fore-aft oscillations. Which makes sense since there is a pivot under the COM. In this version, the center leg is almost entirely out of the water when the body is up. Rather than use just fixed angled wings, I used the tail fin with the relative wing area of 0.61. It lets me adjust the angle of attack as the craft increases in speed.
• I was using MechJeb's Spaceplane Guidance to maintain a course. This works really well for low and moderate speeds (it's really nice when plotting long distance trips), but causes chine-walking for me at speeds between 50 and 60m/s.

 

I was able to push it up to 109m/s, and it gives me a larger score, but I feel like it's not as efficient. The 90.6m/s image has two Goliath engines without any throttling, and the third is set to 67%. You can see from the image I haven't gone as fast as I could. The fore-aft oscillations are too extreme. I can solve them, but it results in inefficiencies that mean I'm bleeding thrust to drag in the water.

Still, feeling pretty good.

I put the craft file up on github, along with a CSV file that tracks my testing of various craft as I refined the design, along with all the test crafts. Feel free to grab them and use one as the basis of your design. Crick in My Neck 3.25 has interesting stats and might be a good place to start if you can then solve the chine-walking and fore-aft oscillations.

If you want to try out the Crick in my Neck craft file, make sure all the tail fins are deployed so the leading edge points up. For some reason I have found reloads flip the direction of deployment. Pump liquid fuel into the front tank before starting. That will help with fore-aft oscillations. You should completely rise up out of the water ~25m/s. At that point you can start adjusting the angles of things to find good settings. When the adjustable foils are completely out of the water, you can retract their deployment.

https://github.com/kjoenth/KSP-Boat-Momentum-Challenge/tree/master/seanth entries

Edited July 13, 2016 by seanth

[seanth]

@Ezriilc and, yes, it took me over 30 design variations to eventually beat your score.

[Ezriilc]

Nice!  Cool name too.

Since you've broken my record for Fuel Efficiency, I'll just put this up to retake the lead - it's what I was working on yesterday.

Orca 5 - "Sea Train" is a high-performance, long-distance touring ship, with room for 48 (!) passengers.  It's very maneuverable, even at its top speed of around 125 m/s.  This ship is truly one of my masterpieces, and will go in my long-term gallery as part of the Kerbaltek Collection.  It will be great for exploring Kerbin.  I love the crowd of kerbs in the cabin.

Part score: 205.140 * 102.1 / 62 = 337.82
Fuel score: 2,322 * 102.1 / 3.76 = 63,052.18
Momentum:   205.140 *102.1 / 3.76 = 5,570.42

Download here:  http://www.Kerbaltek.com/users/Ezriilc/Orca 5.craft

[seanth]

Very nice. I like all the kerbals in there, too. It's like an adventure cruise ship. But....

Crick in My Neck, "go big or go home" attempt

Part score: 78.886 * 109.2 / 62 = 138.94
Fuel score: 877.4 * 109.2 / 1.42 = 67,473.30
Momentum:   78.886 *109.2 / 1.42 = 6066.44

[Ezriilc]

67,473.30 ?!

[seanth]

Yup. How's that sauce now?

 (I just know I will regret the smack talk)

Are we going to scare away other people again?

Edited July 13, 2016 by seanth

[Ezriilc]

28 minutes ago, seanth said:

Yup. How's that sauce now?

 (I just know I will regret the smack talk)

Are we gong to scare away other people again?

That sauce burns a bit, yes.  Well done!  And don't regret talking smack - it's fun and keeps things lively.

So, since replays are in order, I've given the Sea Train a minimum of fuel to see just how fast she is, and this happened.

Part score:  96.618 * 143.9 / 62 = 224.25
Fuel score:  2190 * 143.9 / 3.55 = 88,772.11
Momentum:  96.618 * 143.9 / 3.55 = 3,916.43

 

 

Edited July 13, 2016 by Ezriilc
Removed non-looping gif.

[Ezriilc]

I sure hope we don't scare anyone away.  I'd love to see any entry, not just ones that beat mine.

I'm now thinking that my favorite overall efficiency score is the "funzies" of Momentum / Fuel usage.

Taking the idea further, we get a "Combined" score of: Mass*Speed/FuelBurnRate/PartCount

For the record, here are my stats when Sea Train's tanks are full:
317.948 t
2421 kN
76.5 m/s
3.92 L/s
62 parts
Part score: 392.31
Fuel score: 47,246.56
Momentum:  6,204.85 (my new best)
Combined:  63.17 (my best when nearly empty: 100.08)

I need to get that Momentum/Fuel use efficiency up.  I think that's my new obsession, to get the trifecta, ideally in 1 ship/configuration.

I'm happy with just my best in each category showing [hint].

Edited July 13, 2016 by Ezriilc
Added my best Combined score.

[seanth]

17 minutes ago, Ezriilc said:

I sure hope we don't scare anyone away.  I'd love to see any entry, not just ones that beat mine.

Agreed. I'm hoping someone will take other people's designs and run with them that's why I like the idea of posting the craft files: give people a potential starting point.

I could try and rerun the Crick in my Neck with minimal fuel to see how it does, but I think I'm going to test it out for distance instead. Just let it run overnight and see how far it goes. And then time to plan my next entry. I already have the name picked. Any guesses on the next name?

[Ezriilc]

3 minutes ago, seanth said:

Any guesses on the next name?

Not a clue.

[seanth]

Not quite ready yet, but here's a sneak peak

 

[Jetski]

Man, some really nice entries just popped up here! Well done. My plan clearly needs a rework, and it looks like the scoring is sorted out 

 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Jetski