Space Stations, Maintenance, and the like . . .

[Diche Bach]

Finally got Kerbal Space Station setup last night. Will have to post some screenies in the "What did you do today thread". . .

Questions:

1. What 'in general' is the optimum height for KSS, assuming I intend to use it for a permanent base that serves as a transport hub, depot, and eventual orbital construction yard?

I was thinking of getting into a fairly ellipitcal (but not extreme) orbit with periapsis at about 241 km (to allow for the faster warping throughout its orbit. But then I thought, that increases the distance that stuff has to be brought up to it considerably . . .

I also intend to make it the centerpiece for my initial remote tech network (it has a crap ton of comms on it: 8 of the 50 Mm 45-degree dishes, plus two of the 5Mm omnis, and two of the 500km omnis). Figured something like: 3 to 5 additional small Communtron 32 satellites setup in even spacing in the exact same orbit as it (equatorial) . . . I know they will wander but with enough of them it shouldn't matter too much eh? Maybe add three x 3 similar ones but with a few of the longer range dishes in molniyas at each of the three planes (pitch, yaw, roll)?  . . . so equatorial seems wise?

2. I noticed that two of the modules (the 2 crew command probe the ferried the second module into place and the "mobile processing lab" which will be the heart of the whole complex as it unfolds) both have "Wear: 0.22." I sent Bill (with a wrench mind you, nothing fancy) to "Perform Maintenance" but it didn't seem to do anything to this value. Do I just need better tools?

3. Can Kerbals level up while in space, or do they have to return to KSC?

I'm leaving one scientist on the KSS for now, with enough life support for a year or so. Observe how that "Do research" part works, it only seems to gain about a 1/5th of a science point per day. Hoping that mulch will auto jettison, if not and the system gets "backed up" and he stops consuming his supplies I guess I'll have to send up module number 3 with a few support items (more hydrazine, a "mulch" box to move it to, maybe just go for the whole agronomy module . . .)

And Now On to the 584K funds three tourist Minmus flyby that I managed to successfully do in simulation mode last night!

[dafidge9898]

44 minutes ago, Diche Bach said:

1. What 'in general' is the optimum height for KSS, assuming I intend to use it for a permanent base that serves as a transport hub, depot, and eventual orbital construction yard?

2. I noticed that two of the modules (the 2 crew command probe the ferried the second module into place and the "mobile processing lab" which will be the heart of the whole complex as it unfolds) both have "Wear: 0.22." I sent Bill (with a wrench mind you, nothing fancy) to "Perform Maintenance" but it didn't seem to do anything to this value. Do I just need better tools?

3. Can Kerbals level up while in space, or do they have to return to KSC?

I'm leaving one scientist on the KSS for now, with enough life support for a year or so. Observe how that "Do research" part works, it only seems to gain about a 1/5th of a science point per day. Hoping that mulch will auto jettison, if not and the system gets "backed up" and he stops consuming his supplies I guess I'll have to send up module number 3 with a few support items (more hydrazine, a "mulch" box to move it to, maybe just go for the whole agronomy module . . .)

And Now On to the 584K funds three tourist Minmus flyby that I managed to successfully do in simulation mode last night!

There is really no optimum height for a space station. The ISS orbits at around 400 km, and decays down as low as 300 before boosting back again. As long as your space station is above 70 km, you should be fine. However, if you intend to make it the center of your remote tech network with 4, equally spaced satellites, you should make your station just above a circular 267 km orbit. This way it will constantly have contact with the other three satellites, assuming they are equally spaced and in the same orbit. However if you decide to not use it as a relay, then just keep your station low to make it easier to get to.

I'm not sure what you mean about tools. Are you using KIS or KAS? 

They have to return to the KSC to level up.

Edited August 10, 2016 by dafidge9898
Better math

[Diche Bach]

yeah, KIS and KAS.

Oh wow, it takes a 425km orbit to achieve constant contact with the other three eh?

So just ballpark, how many would have to be daisy chained to allow for constant contact at say 241km? Ten maybe?

 . . . orbital decay, I had that mod installed at one point, but it _seemed_ to be contributing disproportionately the the performance hit my game takes by virtue of handling 11,000 patches (about 70 "mods" I guess). I know stuff does not maintain its orientation (that takes a separate mod I understand which has an even BIGGER hit on performance?) but orbital decay is not actually a thing in the game without mods is it?

Hmmm, in terms of Delta-V, the difference between A. Getting to stable orbit, versus B. ~239km orbit vs. C. 425km orbit . . . I have the sense that it won't be a very large proportional difference eh?

I like math, but I have not yet got to the point of analyzing every gram of my space crafts and optimizing things down to the meter/second scale. I just know that ~7500 D-V is enough to get about 16,000 kg up around ~240km orbit OR enough to get a 6,000 kg package to orbit Minmus and back . . . and I'm probably no where near being "efficient" (and err on the side of ALWAYS bringing back 10 to 15% of my fuel I suppose).

Edited August 10, 2016 by Diche Bach

[dafidge9898]

25 minutes ago, Diche Bach said:

Oh wow, it takes a 425km orbit to achieve constant contact with the other three eh?

Scratch that, I think I did my math wrong. I'll get back to you.

Yeah no, I was way off. My math was wrong so I just used a compass and a ruler and did some proportions. I got around a 267 km circular orbit. You should probably be a little higher than that just to be safe. 

As for KIS, it doesn't really have anything to do with the stock maintenance feature. In stock, you go to whatever broken part you have with an engineer and click "Repair" in the right click menu. I'm not sure why yours isn't changing. Maybe it's just not broken? I'm not sure. KIS and it's tools are used for attaching things and detaching things on your spacecraft, among other things. 

Orbital decay is not a feature in stock.

And you're right, a difference of 100 km or so in space isn't really that much. I've been playing too much RO, and that eats up a lot of fuel. It's always good to have a little extra, so your 10% is pretty good.

Edited August 10, 2016 by dafidge9898
Addition

[Corona688]

1 hour ago, Diche Bach said:

Finally got Kerbal Space Station setup last night. Will have to post some screenies in the "What did you do today thread". . .

Questions:

1. What 'in general' is the optimum height for KSS, assuming I intend to use it for a permanent base that serves as a transport hub, depot, and eventual orbital construction yard?

High enough for a reasonable level of timewarp.  My stations at 120,000m can't timewarp as high as I want.

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I was thinking of getting into a fairly ellipitcal (but not extreme) orbit with periapsis at about 241 km (to allow for the faster warping throughout its orbit. But then I thought, that increases the distance that stuff has to be brought up to it considerably . . .

It does not cost twice as much to orbit 200,000m as it does to go to 100,000m.  It costs some, but not a lot.

An elliptical orbit will have a long annoying wait while you wait for it to get to the low point for a nice intercept.  The vast majority of the orbit will be the slow, high part with only a brief interval it's swinging low in its orbit.  It will cost less delta-v to intercept IF you get it right.  If not, you either spend a lot to catch up or wait a long time.  A circular orbit, on the other hand, is less picky.

You can always have stations at more than one height, anyway.  I keep mine nearly all the same height and transferring anything between them is either a long process or an expensive process.

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3. Can Kerbals level up while in space, or do they have to return to KSC?

They must return to KSC to retake their exams or something.

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Observe how that "Do research" part works, it only seems to gain about a 1/5th of a science point per day.

The more data you put in that station, the faster it will work.  Two scientists will work faster than one.  Higher level scientists will work faster than low level.  I've got some working out 5+ science a day.  Haul back some nice data for them from mun or minmus and that will kick them into gear.

Or land a science pod there, whatever works.

It's also the way Squad kicks career mode into a long-term game.  Suddenly you've got a reason to timewarp ahead instead of running 19 missions per day.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Corona688

[Diche Bach]

Decided on a simple zero inclination equatorial with apo at ~249,868 and per at ~249,836. Whenever I'm feeling OCDish I'll use up some more hydrazine and nudge it toward perfect circularity. 240,000 is the min to get the X100 warp speed, and I figure nearly circular has benefits as far as it being a "central node" of sorts.

Still only docked in real-time play (and only twice in Kerbal Construction Time "simulation" mode) so the idea of more eccentric seemed appealing from the standpoint of making docking easier, but that is probably a fallacy in my thinking.

[Snark]

More discussion about space station altitude, if you're interested.  A few months old, but still relevant.

 

[Zhetaan]

1:  The choice of altitude has been done, so I won't belabour the point.  Circular orbits are also better, but you seem to have worked that out for yourself.

2:  If you're getting wear and need to perform maintenance, that is from USI-LS (or USI's UKS, or USI-Something).  KIS tools have nothing to do with it; take MaterialKits (with an engineer) and perform maintenance then.

3.  Kerbals normally have to wait until they get home to level up, but there are several mods for that.  ('Go to Duna, they said.  Plant a flag, they said.  Then you'll learn the secrets of fixing broken wheels!')  Field Experience grants experience as you earn it, not after you get back.  The Training Akademy in MKS copies levels from one Kerbal who has earned it to protégés who have not, up to level three (read the fine print on that).  Kerbal Academy is a contract pack for Contract Configurator that has your kerbals earn experience and levels by using the skills in various training scenarios in the Kerbin system.

Mulch does auto-jettison, so don't worry about that.  But take fertiliser and the agronomy module anyway; it's much more efficient than taking only supplies.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Zhetaan

[Spricigo]

First: what other mods that change gameplay?  This info help us to give better tailored suggestions.

Ideal height for station:

In general and optimal are somewhat conflicting concepts. If you plan to most your spacecraft with just enough fuel to orbit the station should be at something like 80km circular orbit,  to process data collected on  Minmus a surface lab will work much better. Optimize your station for what it's most needed and use other vessels to fulfill other needs. 

I personally think is a bad idea to try to make the station an important piece of your satellite network.  If you make the station the centerpiece of a satellite network once it gets eclipsed all the network is gone.  You don't want centerpieces,  you want redundancy so you stay connected even with some  eclipsed satellites.  Enough antennas to make your station an improvised satellite may be OK but making it a fully-fledged Master Satellite needs several compromises. 

Wear thing:

What exactly modules show this?  They are part of some mod?  Are using some mod that add malfunction chance (e.g. Dang it! or kerbalism)?  My best guess is that have something to do with a mod that add malfunction chance. 

Experience:

By default (stock)  astronauts only level up after recovered,  Field experience mod change it so you just need switch to another vessel and back. 

Delta-v and payload 

If you think the same amount of delta-v you let you reach different locations you get it wrong. You payload need to be taken in account to calculate delta-v so changing the payload change the delta-v.  It take X delta-v to reach Y location.  

Elíptical orbits and docking. 

It will make docking harder,  not only you need better timing but it will make matching speed more difficult. The station will be faster at periapsis then vessel in circular orbits at that height and you speed will change faster since it varies with height. 

[Diche Bach]

Thanks guys!

[Hodari]

On 8/10/2016 at 8:34 PM, Zhetaan said:

  Kerbal Academy is a contract pack for Contract Configurator that has your kerbals earn experience and levels by using the skills in various training scenarios in the Kerbin system.

Thanks, I've been looking for a good mod that offered an alternative method for leveling up...looks like this might be exactly what I wanted.