is an Eve SSTO rocket possible?

[Kergarin]

48 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

The MK1 inline has a higher max temp. Could it be mounted radially on the bottom (Millenium Falcon style?)

you could offset the weight and drag w/ a fuel tank on the other side?

Also how about Disposable Replaceable Heat Shields?

with that shielded docking port on the nose, you could mount an Inflatable heat shield on a docking port and dock them in orbit, enter Eve atmosphere, and then toss the thing right before parachute deployment.

The sistership could carry 3 or 4 spares.

Thanks for the tip. But radial mounting will require additional parts like nose and tail cones, which will result in extra weight and drag. There is really no margin without massive upscaling.

I will try to make this thing 100% reusable, so disposable parts would be my last way out.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

43 minutes ago, Kergarin said:

Thanks for the tip. But radial mounting will require additional parts like nose and tail cones, which will result in extra weight and drag. There is really no margin without massive upscaling.

I will try to make this thing 100% reusable, so disposable parts would be my last way out.

can't wait to steal see it  

[Kergarin]

I have just build an SSTO which brings 2 Kerbals to Orbit.  ISRU seems so near.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

49 minutes ago, Kergarin said:

I have just build an SSTO which brings 2 Kerbals to Orbit.  ISRU seems so near.

I don't think its needed. The mission plan doesn't require it.

Its going to need help getting to and from low Eve Orbit anyway. The Hercules just needs The Athena! 

edit: oh, just noticed your title (SSTO Maniac) LOL

edit 2: Ok you put ISRU on that, then I can remove it and use that for extra payload when I borrow the design.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Brainlord Mesomorph

[Kergarin]

Which mission plan? 

Why do I get the feeling I'm developing something for you? 

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

13 minutes ago, Kergarin said:

Which mission plan? 

Why do I get the feeling I'm developing something for you? 

aren't we working on this??  

half up this thread I proposed a mission plan that any lander w/ this dV and TWR would easily make Kerbin SSTO dock w/ a hypothetical sistership, goto Minmus refuel, Minmus to Gilly, refuel, then carry the fully fueled lander to low  Eve orbit and be there to tow it back to Gilly. And from there Kerbin, Eve, anywhere else (that was the idea of the OP)

I given up on the idea of ISRU on the lander. You don't know even if you'll land on ore. On Gilly you have time to figure that out.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Brainlord Mesomorph

[GoSlash27]

11 minutes ago, Kergarin said:

Which mission plan? 

Why do I get the feeling I'm developing something for you? 

 

haha you're just catching on?

-Slashy

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

3 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

haha you're just catching on?

-Slashy

I don't often ask for help, guys.

And I think he's having plenty of fun!

[Kergarin]

On 14.8.2016 at 0:02 AM, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

toying w/ eve lander designs, and it occurs to me:

"If you make an Eve SSTO rocket, do you win this game?"

its supposed to take 8km/s of dV, and if your rocket can do that (and refuel) doesn't that mean it can ANYTHING else in this game?

Such a rocketship would easily take it self to LKO with plenty of fuel to land on Minmus and refuel and then it could go and land ANYWHERE. Do anything, without any help, without a fuel tender, it wouldn't even need gantries, b/c it would have to land on Eve, it would the ultimate KSP rocket!! Am i right? 

this begs the question: can it be done with stock parts??

Well I'm just answering this question. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Most of this thread is theory and assumptions, and im posting what I know from SEVERAL HUNDRED launches on Eve, to help others and make clear which assumptions are right and which are wrong.

I have started working on an Eve SSTO long before, but this thread really motivated me a lot, to focus on this and show what's possible.

But this has nothing to do with fun anymore, it's hard work and took several weeks of my life to get this far.

If you would like to steal  build a Hercules named sistership of my MONOLITH once it's released, that would be ok to me. But it would be nice, if you then refer to its original 

 

Apart from this, the thing is working. I'm just trying to give the Kerbals a more comfy place than sitting between the engines  I have a version with a prograde facing Mk1 cockpit at the lower top of the rocket (like on a container ship), this gives the pilot a really impressive view, but adds to much weight compared to the lander can...  while it's great to outbalance the ISRU equipment.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

2 hours ago, Kergarin said:

If you would like to steal  build a Hercules named sistership of my MONOLITH once it's released, that would be ok to me. But it would be nice, if you then refer to its original 

more than certainly.

I have been waiting for the appropriate time to use the following compliment on this forum (I believe it should be our highest commendation):

You, sir, are a steely eyed missile-man.

[Kergarin]

11 hours ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

more than certainly.

I have been waiting for the appropriate time to use the following compliment on this forum (I believe it should be our highest commendation):

You, sir, are a steely eyed missile-man.

Thanks, what an honour 

 

Maybe this is due to a lack of sleep, but what if I use an SSTO to move an asteroid to low eve orbit, and use this to refuel the lander using its ISRU?? instead of using a mothership to move the lander around. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Kergarin

[DualDesertEagle]

Just a little something I keep noticing over and over again: What is it with this "turn right to head east on take-off" thing? I keep wondering why all spacecraft deployed on the launch pad by default are oriented in a way that pitching down would make them head north instead of east. So what makes such a counter-intuitive thing better than launching them belly-to-the-east so u can simply pitch down to get the correct heading?

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

13 minutes ago, Kergarin said:

Maybe this is due to a lack of sleep, but what if I use an SSTO to move an asteroid to low eve orbit, and use this to refuel the lander using its ISRU?? instead of using a mothership to move the lander around. 

 indeed.

I'd love to see a pic of what you have so I could think about that mothership

[Kergarin]

2 minutes ago, DualDesertEagle said:

Just a little something I keep noticing over and over again: What is it with this "turn right to head east on take-off" thing? I keep wondering why all spacecraft deployed on the launch pad by default are oriented in a way that pitching down would make them head north instead of east. So what makes such a counter-intuitive thing better than launching them belly-to-the-east so u can simply pitch down to get the correct heading?

I think it's to match the default camera perspective. Now someone could ask why the camera is oriented this way.

 

2 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

 indeed.

I'd love to see a pic of what you have so I could think about that mothership

As soon as it's works like expected, there will be a video 

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

6 minutes ago, DualDesertEagle said:

Just a little something I keep noticing over and over again: What is it with this "turn right to head east on take-off" thing? I keep wondering why all spacecraft deployed on the launch pad by default are oriented in a way that pitching down would make them head north instead of east. So what makes such a counter-intuitive thing better than launching them belly-to-the-east so u can simply pitch down to get the correct heading?

I think its just 2d thinking on squad's part,

I rotate all my rockets! - or at least the CM (select the root part and hit Q once)

note you might want to rotate it back before editing

EDIT:  maybe NASA does it that way?  The space shuttle use to do 90 degree roll after launch and before the gravity turn- so UP was east

Edited August 21, 2016 by Brainlord Mesomorph

[DualDesertEagle]

14 minutes ago, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

I think its just 2d thinking on squad's part,

I rotate all my rockets! - or at least the CM (select the root part and hit Q once)

note you might want to rotate it back before editing

EDIT:  maybe NASA does it that way?  The space shuttle use to do 90 degree roll after launch and before the gravity turn- so UP was east

Yeah, I'm doing the same thing but on rockets with radial symmetry only it fortunately doesn't matter how they're oriented. But even there I do indeed make sure that the command module or probe core is oriented belly east.

Don't understand why they didn't just turn the whole thing so that the vertical stabilizer was facing east from the beginning. 2 of the Kennedy Space Center's launchpads (including the Space-Shuttle one I think) are oriented north - south, looking from the side that the crawler comes from. So what would prevent them from simply launching the shuttle tail-east?

Edited August 21, 2016 by DualDesertEagle

[Kergarin]

It's now a 10 ton payload eve ssto 

Reached orbit with isru mk1 cockpit and 8tons of spare fuel.

[KerikBalm]

Well, I had a go at Eve SSTO. I tried a crossfeeding design with a mammoth and 4 aerospikes. Aerospikes have better Isp throughout pretty much the whole ascent, but their TWR is inferior to the mammoth.

But, especially since its a SSTO, the mammoth has way more thrust than needed in later parts of the flight. So I have 4 aerospikes and a mammoth, I throttle back the mammoth with the slider/shut it down once I'm going mostly horizontal, and just let the aerospikes push the rest of the way with their 8% better Isp. I barely made orbit from the highest point on eve... so I guess its no better than the mammoth only designs

Has anyone landed one of these yet?

[Kergarin]

30 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Well, I had a go at Eve SSTO. I tried a crossfeeding design with a mammoth and 4 aerospikes. Aerospikes have better Isp throughout pretty much the whole ascent, but their TWR is inferior to the mammoth.

But, especially since its a SSTO, the mammoth has way more thrust than needed in later parts of the flight. So I have 4 aerospikes and a mammoth, I throttle back the mammoth with the slider/shut it down once I'm going mostly horizontal, and just let the aerospikes push the rest of the way with their 8% better Isp. I barely made orbit from the highest point on eve... so I guess its no better than the mammoth only designs

Has anyone landed one of these yet?

The mix of aerospikes and mammoth were in my test worse or equal to mammoth only designs.

Yes I have just landed my isru ssto.  Just working on some beauty fixes and hope to have a video tomorrow.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

On 8/21/2016 at 8:58 AM, DualDesertEagle said:

Don't understand why they didn't just turn the whole thing so that the vertical stabilizer was facing east from the beginning. 2 of the Kennedy Space Center's launchpads (including the Space-Shuttle one I think) are oriented north - south, looking from the side that the crawler comes from. So what would prevent them from simply launching the shuttle tail-east?

More reading: it seems that  IRL we usually launch from The Cape to the North East, and end up in that 45 degree orbit you see on Mission Control screens

Apparently IRL there are other things to think about than just planetary rotation: ocean shipping lanes, air traffic, inhabited islands, nearby cities. Our launches from Edwards AFB go due south, (who knew?)

[DualDesertEagle]

Just now, Brainlord Mesomorph said:

More reading: it seems that  IRL we usually launch from The Cape to the North East, and end up in that 45 degree orbit you see on Mission Control screens

Apparently IRL there are other things to think about than just planetary rotation: ocean shipping lanes, air traffic, inhabited islands, nearby cities. Our launches from Edwards AFB go due south, (who knew?)

Well then I've just learned alot, I always thought they'd be taking off mainly to the east.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

21 hours ago, Kergarin said:

It's now a 10 ton payload eve ssto 

Reached orbit with isru mk1 cockpit and 8tons of spare fuel.

That's room for the rover!

[Kergarin]

Landing: works

Isru: works

SSTO: works

All systems go  the video should be there tomorrow.

1.448 tons with ~10 tons payload.

I was even able to give it an Mk3 cockpit, but that doesn't look verry well, so I switched back some other pods 

[foamyesque]

34 minutes ago, Kergarin said:

Landing: works

Isru: works

SSTO: works

All systems go  the video should be there tomorrow.

1.448 tons with ~10 tons payload.

I was even able to give it an Mk3 cockpit, but that doesn't look verry well, so I switched back some other pods 

 

I assume that's one thousand, four hundred and forty eight tons, yeah? I'd love to see this rocket. In principle, if you can SSTO at all you can SSTO any amount of mass simply by scaling up, but I'm amazed that you managed to horse something that big through an entry and launch.

 

I'm also honestly surprised it isn't bigger :v

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

Usually in this game I feel like the Director of NASA, deciding what flights I can afford and which mission to scrub. Other times I feel like the CEO of an aerospace company trying to design vehicles to accomplish missions. 

Lately (in this thread) feel like the CEO of an aerospace company whose competition has succeeded where we have failed. I have tidbits of press releases, corporate espionage, some footage of a successful test of a model,and a mass number (w/ a typo). 

And then we're in the VAB trying to guess what arrangement of parts adds up to that. ("we", me and the other Kerbals) 
"he mentions the Mk3 cockpit, does that mean they're using the MK3 fuselage?"

9 hours ago, Kergarin said:

I was even able to give it an Mk3 cockpit, but that doesn't look verry well, so I switched back some other pods 

yeah, I hate that cockpit

Edited August 23, 2016 by Brainlord Mesomorph