ronnronn Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 It seem that this day in age science, is no longer about the search for truth. It is a search for funding, and a quest for followers.Yes thats right, scientists are usualy the most narcissistic people on the face of the earth. A good example is if you try to discus a theory of theres against conflicting data, they become extreamly defensive, and refuse to answer the challenges. instead they pull on the degrees they have aquired over the years, and compare them to your education. I just spent 45 min trying to get a strait answer out of an evolutionist. OMFG this was the worst 45 min of conversation Ive ever had!I asked him about a discrepancy in a basic charactureistic that must take place in a lifeforms dna that would allow a speices to change its number of chromozones.He responded that this kind of science was above my head!So after explaning that I understood enough about biology, biochemistry, and gennetics to run rings around him, and after proving this to him by means of explaning genetic process that he had no clew about the function or even discovery ther of. I again asked him to explane how a creature could change its number of chromozones? DNA and RNA have an intresting safeguard, that prevents any cross breeding of species with differing genetic codes especialy those with different numbers of chromozones. All living creatures plants and even bacteria poses this trait, so for a species to jump to a high or lower number of cromozones, there would have to be several of them doing it at the same time, or they would have to reproduce A-sexualy.Does this sound unreasonable to any of you? Because it p!22ed him right off. He became unreasonable, and verbaly offensive. The part I couldnt under stand is, is he started bringing religion into the discussion, saying: 'Your just upset that science has dissproved the existance of your pitifull God!' Realy? Thats whats I said? Hmm....Sorry to to write so much, but Id like to get a reasonable persons point of view on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_chair Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Dat evolutionist is a rude guise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnronn Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Yeah and the thing is Ive never discused faith or relig around him or said anything about my relig or lack there of.Honestly it had no bearing on the issue i was raising. it seam this day in age that its easyer to defend your theory than to to try to prove how something realy works.There are a lot of gaps in a lot of theories, its doesn\'t make them wrong, but you should at least be willing to find out why theres a gap and how it can be explained, not get upset when somone points it out. He told me hes going to talk with my prof\'s and see what they have to say about my attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Aerospace Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Calm down there, ronnronn. I agree that he was rude, and that his actions were completely unrequited, but let\'s try not to flare up. The way we set things up, imo , that is that things cost money in this world, this is the way we have to go about things. Before we can go chasing the truth, you have to go chase grants. Also, from my experience, it\'s natural for people to want to defend their ideas. It\'s human nature when confronted with new ideas, and yes, I agree that it may not be the greatest thing either. Also, is this how every scientist you\'ve talked to reacts, or is it just him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 He might have responded badly because you regurgitated some arguments you clearly don\'t understand from a creationist website somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endeavour Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Are you also a scientist? Explaining a process that he doesn\'t know about doesn\'t make you more intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ydoow Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 About differing numbers of chromosomes: Ignore the slight battle against creationists, I\'m just pointing out that we seem to have evidence that chimpanzee chromosomes merged together, giving humans 23 pairs of chromosomes vs. chimpanzee\'s 24 pairs.That\'s one way chromosome numbers could change.Other than that, I would say it really just comes down to freak genetic occurances/mutations ya know?Usually it\'s pretty fatal, but every now and then it\'s not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naiba Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 an evolutionistSo... Was this just some random guy you met on the street? Or worse, the internet?There\'s no such thing as an evolutionist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnronn Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Calm down there, ronnronn. I agree that he was rude, and that his actions were completely unrequited, but let\'s try not to flare up. The way we set things up, imo , that is that things cost money in this world, this is the way we have to go about things. Before we can go chasing the truth, you have to go chase grants. Also, from my experience, it\'s natural for people to want to defend their ideas. It\'s human nature when confronted with new ideas, and yes, I agree that it may not be the greatest thing either. Also, is this how every scientist you\'ve talked to reacts, or is it just him?No its not just him. A cpl physics professors I have met have also taken a harsh view toward anyone who raises another answer to theire theories.As to regurgitating creationists ideas... ah no, my theory is that for a species to reproduce after going through a genetic alteration, would require that the DNA of older species had lower leveles of the safe guards we have in living animal today allowing for more mutation of a species, but also making it more likely to produce physical retardation. this would allow for drastic changes in genetic structure and physical form, then after a certain point the dna would start hardening itself against chainge, or to make it simple those form best adapted to survival in ther environment would breed enough to cause the genetic code to rule out all other posabilities, also this give way to the idea that Vast numbers of species would have made the transition from water to land, not just one or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulufaic Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 So... Was this just some random guy you met on the street? Or worse, the internet?There\'s no such thing as an evolutionist.Yes there are. There are still people who believe in Creationism, and those are called Creationists and those who believe in Evolution are called Evolutionists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnronn Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 So... Was this just some random guy you met on the street? Or worse, the internet?There\'s no such thing as an evolutionist.He teaches evolutionary science, and biological history. Met him at UTA. His degree is in evolutionary biology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowfax Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Yes there are. There are still people who believe in Creationism, and those are called Creationists and those who believe in Evolution are called Evolutionists.People with Down\'s syndrome can occasionally reproduce. They generally have an extra chromosome. The fact that they can reproduce invalidates your argument that evolution doesn\'t work because of different numbers of chromosomes. You must understand that science is and has been under continuous assault by religion since before Galileo. Those of us on science\'s side get awfully tired of hearing the same, wrong, arguments trying to disprove scientific findings from a platform of ignorance. If you have something real to add to the scientific discovery, scientists will often listen, but if you\'re just repeating the same thing thousands of other people have said, and that have already been dismissed, then I don\'t blame them all that much for getting annoyed. Further, you were rude first: 'So after explaning that I understood enough about biology, biochemistry, and gennetics to run rings around him...' That\'s not exactly a polite way to state your case - it\'s basically saying 'I don\'t care what you\'ve studied your whole life, you\'re a dumbass, and I know more about it than you, so shove it.' I\'m not at all surprised that you irritated the guy. I\'ll also note that you have yet to tell us *your* qualifications. What are they, that makes you more qualified than an evolutionary biologist to speak on evolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
closette Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Please don\'t judge all scientists by a few bad apples. Being rude and defensive doesn\'t make them wrong and you correct of course, and I think you realize that. Nevertheless, NO SCIENTIST SHOULD BE OFFENDED WHEN THEIR FUNDAMENTAL ASSUMPTIONS ARE QUESTIONED. And it should not matter who is asking the question or how many letters anyone has after their name. That\'s how our understanding of the Universe itself 'evolves'. Having said that, science is a human activity, and has its flaws, such as tying either 'being first to discover' or 'confirming the status quo' to putting food on the table (which is what 'funding' ultimately boils down to). I have seen, and felt pressure from myself, examples of confirmation bias which really made me stop and think 'Is this worth confronting an egotistical supervisor to mention?'. Not a good situation, so I got out fast.I\'m sorry you were treated rudely and hope you can continue asking great questions. I don\'t know much about biology...but I do know that there are many questions about evolution that still need to be explored, and you have every right to ask away, as long as you keep an open mind to the responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sordid Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 DNA and RNA have an intresting safeguard, that prevents any cross breeding of species with differing genetic codes especialy those with different numbers of chromozones.False, hybrids between animals with different numbers of chromosomes are possible and in fact there are many examples. The best known of these is the mule, which has 63 chromosomes while its parents have 64 and 62. Their fertility is poor, yes, more so in males, but there have been dozens of documented cases of female mules giving birth to offspring when mated with a pure horse or a pure donkey.I\'m shocked that one so well-versed in biology as you does not know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaSilisko Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Christ. Generalization much, ronnronn...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Nag Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/21/basics-how-can-chromosome-numb/Read it, ronnronn.You don\'t seem to be as proficient in biology as you flaunted yourself to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradx954 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 lol someguy pisses you off and you decide to rage about it on the ksp forums? If you are just looking for someone to say yeah your right your the smartest guy on earth fine yeah your right and your the smartest guy on earth. Feel better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorik Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Interestingly, there\'s an ant that only needs a single chromosome pair to reproduce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_jumper_ant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayneCloud Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Yeah...this wont end well. Locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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