The Elon's Problem Challenge

[Jasonden]

Based on the exciting new announcement by Elon Musk at IAS the other day, SpaceX is building a BFS to fly on a BFR to Mars.  And I mean, sheesh:  Elon is some kind of whackjob, I tell ya. He's building this Interplanetary Transport System that he hopes to use to send 100 people to Mars at a time.  With 100t of cargo.  Oh:  and it all has to be reusable, too.

So, this seems like the basis for a fun challenge.  Here's your task:

Design, build, and fly a fully reusable system that can land 100 Kerbals on Duna and return them all back to Kerbin.

Rules:  no cheating.  All Kerbals must be in pressurized containers (no lawn chairs).  "Stock" category will entail stock *parts*, but informational and control mods (KER, MechJeb, kOS) are kosher.  All vehicles to be reused must land on Kerbin on solid surfaces -- no water recoveries.

Scoring:

This is more of a "cool thing to do" challenge than a true competition, but I will show the various entries ranked by total mission cost per Kerbal (with re-used parts not worth money, but if you re-use a subsystem you don't have to count it twice against the cost).  Lowest score wins.  All scores can be modified by me based on Awesomeness Factor.

 

Full Disclosure:  I have actually not attempted this myself, but I am confident that it can be done in some form or another (though possibly with obscene part counts).

 

Stock:

1. 1640: Thomas H. --- One launch, SSTO booster, Minmus refuel, careful atmospheric entries to avoid needing heat shields
2. 2240: burner_nn --- Many distributed launches, modular design, link up in LKO for Duna transfer, modules separate again for Duna/Kerbin EDL
3. ---

Mostly Stock:

1. ---
2. ---
3. ---

Modded:

1. ---
2. ---
3. ---

Edited October 3, 2016 by Jasonden

[burner_nn]

Can I use ISRU on Duna? Like Elon planned

[Frozen_Heart]

Does it have to be done the same way? Aka a big booster with a spaceship that doubles as a lander?

Or can it be something that stays in orbit and uses smaller landers to ferry crew and supplies?

[Jasonden]

1 hour ago, burner_nn said:

Can I use ISRU on Duna? Like Elon planned

Absolutely!  Encouraged, in fact.

1 hour ago, Frozen_Heart said:

Does it have to be done the same way? Aka a big booster with a spaceship that doubles as a lander?

Or can it be something that stays in orbit and uses smaller landers to ferry crew and supplies?

Does not have to be done the same way -- creative solutions encouraged!

[coredumpster]

How about one-way un-manned pre-supply missions, which is something that Elon alluded to?

Use of KIS/KAS to connect ships landed on Duna?  Otherwise all-stock parts.  

Thinking along the lines of a pre-supply mission to land drills/ISRU with KIS/KAS to connect the "fuel base" to the lander would be close to Elon's vision, with otherwise all stock KSP parts?

[McQuacker]

Sounds cool! I'm thinking of trying this with Real Solar System.

[Jasonden]

27 minutes ago, coredumpster said:

How about one-way un-manned pre-supply missions, which is something that Elon alluded to?

Use of KIS/KAS to connect ships landed on Duna?  Otherwise all-stock parts.  

Thinking along the lines of a pre-supply mission to land drills/ISRU with KIS/KAS to connect the "fuel base" to the lander would be close to Elon's vision, with otherwise all stock KSP parts?

Presupply is approved for the reasons you state.  Include its cost in your total tho.

as for KAS...  Kind of falls in grey area, but I'll take it as stock if the rocket parts are stock.

24 minutes ago, McQuacker said:

Sounds cool! I'm thinking of trying this with Real Solar System.

Dude:  that is hardcore mode!

[Clancy]

 

6 hours ago, Jasonden said:

All vehicles to be reused must land on Kerbin on solid surfaces -- no water recoveries.

Could we land on a floating platform to recover the booster?

[Jasonden]

23 minutes ago, Clancy said:

 

Could we land on a floating platform to recover the booster?

Yes!  So long as vehicles don't fall into the drink, floating platforms are no problem.

[Hodari]

Looks like a fun challenge, but will take me some time to build everything I need for it.  So far, I've built:

The Musk Reusable Atmospheric Transporter(aka MuskRAT), a spaceplane capable of flying 3 crew and 16 passengers(might try to expand this to 32 or 48 later) into LKO, docking with the target, and then returning.

Interplanetary Transfer Vehicle, single stage rocket capable of either reaching LKO OR one round trip from LKO to Duna orbit and back while carrying 3 crew and 128 passengers. 

Still need to build the Duna shuttle and something capable of refueling the Transfer Vehicle within a reasonable number of trips.

 

The mission plan is to launch the transfer vehicle first. Once it is safely in orbit, bring the passengers into orbit on the MuskRAT, dock, and transfer them.  While the transfer ship is being refueled, they can remain there in LKO for a while to get used to living in space and give them one last chance to realize how insane all of this is and back out before they begin the long journey to Duna.

[Jasonden]

Aaaaand Manley appears to be the first entry.  Nice!

[burner_nn]

But he didn't do 100 Kerbals in one go, did he?

[Chiron0224]

3 hours ago, Jasonden said:

Aaaaand Manley appears to be the first entry.  Nice!

Always a proud moment when Scott Manley takes on your challenge.

[Thomas H.]

The mission is a hack of a ride....

https://youtu.be/rSTUiGAPF0E

It took 1.510.882 kerbal bucks including fuel to build the system on the pad.

Some parts were lost on reentry and landing.

104 Kerbals joined the trip and returned home at fuel cost of 1.640 bucks  per Kerbal.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Thomas H.

[burner_nn]

Misson done. Report is here: Album

Took 475k * 3 for shuttles. 502 * 2 for tankers. 2,429k in total for 108 kerbals. That's 2,24k per Kerbal. Everything returned to Kerbin succesfully

[Stoney3K]

This one *is* less challenging than the real world because of nuke engines. Building a booster that can hurl a 100-Kerbal ship into orbit and get back on the ground is probably more difficult than the rest that is bolted on top.

[n.b.z.]

I was already in the middle of building just such a system, when my computer died. Nnnnrrrrrrggghh!!!!

The vessel has 300+ parts, and I haven't even started on the booster yet. I'm using a prehistoric notebook as a backup now which can not run this stuff properly. This will have to wait until I have a sufficient computer running it.

[SuicidalInsanity]

99 Kerbals to Duna

Took the Elon Musk approach and had everything done in two launches using shared hardware

Duna Transport Craft: 124 parts, 168.6 tons, 27.4m tall, 177,311 funds, seats 99 Kerbals
DTC Tanker: 50 parts, 125,788 tons, 24.8m tall, 75,325 funds, recovery refund ~67,000 funds
DTC Launcher, launched both the DCT & DTC-T: 75 parts, 590,315 tons, 32.2m tall, 266,517 funds, recovery refund ~167,678 funds
     -recovery refunds exact value  is dependent on how much fuel is remaining in the tanks after de-orbit and landing burns.

Total cost at launch: 785,670 funds to send 99 Kerbals to Duna
Net cost per operational cycle: 383,314 funds
Ticket price per kerbal: 3871.85 funds
Fuel cost per Kerbal: ~758 funds


Rest of the album can be found Here
99% stock, only mod part used was the heavy landing legs on the DTC and DTC tanker.

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by SuicidalInsanity

[Hodari]

On 10/3/2016 at 1:16 AM, SuicidalInsanity said:

99% stock, only mod part used was the heavy landing legs on the DTC and DTC tanker.

Finding something that can safely land on Duna has been the part I'm having problems with so far.  I'm using the prerelease version, so mods aren't an option for me.

None of the stock landing legs seem to be strong enough.  My best attempt was using an absolutely ludicrous number of parachutes(close to 200, I think) which was enough to slow it down so it could land on the engines, but then it tipped over if it landed on any kind of slope at all.

I also tried something more like a spaceplane, but using only rocket engines.  Again, was almost able to make it work, but the landing gear always failed.

Will have to try again with a much wider vertical landing design when I have time.

 

Mission update:  Designs for the Duna Lander and Refueling Tanker have been completed, tested, and approved.  The tankers are just BARELY capable of launching from Kerbin, flying to, and landing on Minmus on one load of fuel.  The first 4 tankers have been sent to Minmus and are mining/refueling there.  Tanker 3 touched down a bit hard at over 6m/s with ZERO fuel remaining, bur managed to survive and remain upright.  Probably will be sending 4-8 tankers to the Duna system(mining/refueling on Ike) and another 4 staying in the Kerbin system and refueling from Minmus.  The Duna lander is capable of launching from Duna into low orbit, returning to the ground, and refueling itself there, so will only possibly need the tankers for the initial trip to the Duna system.

Mission update 2:  All 8 tankers have landed on Minmus and started mining operations.  The Duna Lander has also been successfully launched into LKO and is awaiting refueling.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Hodari

[problemecium]

Why no water recoveries? What's wrong with landing in the water?

Heck, SpaceX's Falcon 9R lands on water, if you don't count the barge as "land." ;P

[burner_nn]

2 hours ago, Hodari said:

Finding something that can safely land on Duna has been the part I'm having problems with so far.  I'm using the prerelease version, so mods aren't an option for me.

None of the stock landing legs seem to be strong enough.  My best attempt was using an absolutely ludicrous number of parachutes(close to 200, I think) which was enough to slow it down so it could land on the engines, but then it tipped over if it landed on any kind of slope at all.

I also tried something more like a spaceplane, but using only rocket engines.  Again, was almost able to make it work, but the landing gear always failed.

Will have to try again with a much wider vertical landing design when I have time.

That's exactly why I've built a VTOL

[TopHeavy11]

I actually already did this using the plan to get to Mars. No album, but oral should do.

I used a reusable launcher (only failure on landing is when I tried to land in water.) I sent up a lander, then sent up a tanker. I sent the lander to Duna under it's own Delta-V (frankly, I'm surprised that I had enough. It was close to 2500 dV used in the transfer,) and landed it on Duna with the help on a single drogue chute. Getting back is where I start to deviate. I send an ISRU module to Duna and land/rove it next to the craft. I use a combo of KAS/KIS to refuel it (monoprop not included. The lighter the better.) Then I "simulate" to see if I need a transfer ship to get back, or if this will be enough. I use the solution I found to be the best and go with it.

[Jasonden]

6 hours ago, parameciumkid said:

Why no water recoveries? What's wrong with landing in the water?

Heck, SpaceX's Falcon 9R lands on water, if you don't count the barge as "land." ;P

Because nothing that ever lands in seawater can ever really be used again.  And the Shuttle SRB's are a case in point: the amount of refurbishment that they needed was so excessive that 'reuse' didn't end up saving any money.  Once you drop a liquid-fueled engine into that it would be trash!

[problemecium]

Sounds like in-the-box thinking to me. I can easily imagine with a decent budget someone could design an engine tailored to survive sea landings.

And what about landing on a barge, hmmm?

[Jasonden]

On 10/3/2016 at 1:54 PM, parameciumkid said:

Sounds like in-the-box thinking to me. I can easily imagine with a decent budget someone could design an engine tailored to survive sea landings.

And what about landing on a barge, hmmm?

Well, I already stated above that landing on a barge is just fine.  How's this:  water landings okay so long as the engines never get submerged.  So you can land upside down, or have a bunch of empty fuel tanks below you to float on, or whatever you come up with.