Computer help ksp

[Nich]

I recently upgraded my computer and now KSP likes to freeze up for a second once every 5 seconds.  Here are my new parts and they are all significantly better then my old setup but preform noticeably worse.

S2600CP2J server board

dual E5-2670  i5 processors

128 gb ram

upgraded from win xp64 to win7 ultimate (64)

480 gb SSD

 

I recycled my power supply and my video card a BFG maxcore 55 ( basically a GTX 260) and my KSP save.

 

When putting it together I ran into a problem that the board only has 1 PCIE v3 x16 slot and it is too close to the memory to put my card in.  So instead I had to use an open PCIE v3 x8.  It should also be noted that my video card is a PCIE v2.  From what I have read online this slot should be able to handle the bandwidth without bottle necking but it is a potential source.  I wiped out the drivers with DDR or what ever the driver remover tool is and reinstalled the newest nvidia drivers.  I think I have updated my .NET and my direct X but I an not 100% sure how to check. 

 

Please if you have any thoughts I am out of ideas on what to try next to fix my stuttering.

 

So my stuttering has been completely fixed.  It was the combination of

1. Limiting to 1 CPU

2. adding the anti stutter mod

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/139128-12-memgraph-1101-with-stutter-reduction/

3. Not installing windows updates

Edited October 12, 2016 by Nich

[Waxing_Kibbous]

Quote

I recycled my power supply

You getting enough power with the upgrades?

[Nich]

Ah thanks something to look into.  I have a courser 750 that is 5-6 years old.  I have checked 2 different wattage tools that both said around 568 watts.  Do power supplies get weaker over time?  Doesn't the CPU normally shut off first?

[Ten Key]

32 minutes ago, Nich said:

 I have checked 2 different wattage tools that both said around 568 watts.

Power supplies provide power at three different voltages: 3.3, 5 and 12 volts. These lines (normally called "rails") supply different parts of your computer (the video card is on the 12 volt rail) and it is entirely possible to overload one rail without exceeding the power supply's rated wattage.

[Alshain]

Add to that some power supply companies lie stretch the truth about their rating.  They will often take the wattage available to all the rails and add it together to get a number that looks higher than it is.  Realistically the number that should be advertised is the wattage of the 12 volt rail only, because that's the one you use the most.  For example, a 750 watt power supply should read 62.5 amps on the 12 volt rail (or close to it, 62 or 63... it doesn't matter).

Good power supplies will give you all the specs, and wattage = amperage * voltage.  So if you take the amperage for the 12 volt rail, multiply it times 12, if it's not the wattage advertised on the PSU (sometimes rounded up but that won't matter in the grand scheme) then you likely purchased a cheap piece o' junk sorry to say.  If it doesn't tell you the amperage anywhere on the PSU, in the box, or on the store page you bought it from, you definitely got a cheap piece o' junk.

Then of course PSU do weaken over time.  They are the most likely item to fail in your computer (second would be standard HDD, but not SSD).  They can fail without being totally dead.  If you don't have or know how to properly use a Multimeter, your best bet for diagnosing this is a PSU tester like this one.  Just remember that if you use one of those options, they do not need to be perfect, just very close.  11.9V on a 12V rail is just fine.  Sometimes your Motherboard bios may be able to tell you this information but it isn't always reliable as it may not be putting enough load to drag it into it's failure range.  Voltage issues often only show up under heavy loads of video cards and cpus working to their max as they would with a 3D game.

 

Now, other things that could be happening. 

Heat will often cause freeze ups.  If you added a bunch of more powerful equipment and no new cooling, or failed to use thermal grease on the CPUs... you could very well be overheating.

Bad RAM.  It's rare but possible to get a defective RAM stick, though typically this will cause a BSOD rather than a freeze.  It's not an exact science though.

 

One other thing.  Having a primary video card in an 8x is bad for performance.  It shouldn't freeze or cause issues. PCI-E slots are completely cross compatible, as long as it is physically able to fit.  You could really put it in a 1x slot if it has the right plastic header and it would still work, but your computer's ability will suffer greatly.  The 16x slot exists really only for the video card.  Just about no other expansion card needs it.  In fact even the 8x is really there for a second video card.  Most other expansion cards don't need more than 1x.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Alshain

[Nich]

So I did a test with my 4 case fans unplugged (120mx2 and 80mmx2) and still experienced they same thing.  I suspect the power is not the issue.  

I did another test were I reduced my graphics to the bare minimum and it was almost worse.

 

I have read that the windows PCI controller is terriable and it will not update to the intel drivers unless you manually force it so I guess that is what I am going to try next.

I checked the RAM with the windows memory diagnostic tool and all of it passed

Edited October 3, 2016 by Nich

[Mako]

I can't find anything to confirm or deny my initial reaction, but I feel like a double cpu setup could potentially hurt performance rather than help in a multi-threaded game. I'd guess that there is potential for one cpu to be waiting on the other cpu to catch up, so to speak. I wouldn't be surprised (but I could totally be wrong) if there was more overhead or latency involved with keeping both cpus in sync.

Also, -- while I'm not sure if it has a direct impact on what you're experiencing -- the single core performance of those cpus seems to be 2.6ghz, which is not generally considered a fast speed for a game as cpu intensive as KSP. However, I'm guessing (and hoping) that 2.6ghz would still be sufficient to prevent the freezes you're experiencing and allow for an enjoyable game with reasonable part counts.

Having never really used server hardware myself, this is all just baseless conjecture on my part. I'd love to be completely and utterly misunderstanding the hardware and find instead that there is some simple software-related thing that will sort this out quickly for you.

One last thing, and sorry if missed it, but have you tried any of the 1.2 Pre-Release builds? From the Dev Notes/Changelogs and what I've seen around the forums, it would seem like the 1.2 update will bring some improved performance.

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Mako

[Nich]

I was under the impression KSP only used one core. Although I thought I heard something about an update assigning different ships different cores

I do agree that a 2.6 is not ideal for KSP I used to play on a 2.4 and it was much better. 

I have not seen any difference in playability between a four-part ship and a 250 part ship, they play the same

[Xavven]

For starters, could you download CPU-Z from here? http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

Run the 64-bit version and navigate to the About tab and save a report as a .txt file. Post the contents here so we can see your computer specs.

We should also try to see if your video card stutters on any other 3D rendering. The 3DMark demo should be sufficient. You can download it here: http://www.futuremark.com/benchmarks/3dmark?_ga=1.234386326.965245181.1475550035

EDIT: You should probably run one of the easier tests like Sky Diver or Cloud Gate from the "Benchmarks" tab. Don't run Time Spy -- it will bring that system to its knees and you won't get any useful troubleshooting information from that.

Tell us if you experience the same 1 second pause periodically while running that test. It might also be useful to know your final 3DMark score.

 

A few of thoughts on the hardware you have:

1. Server hardware doesn't necessarily make for the best gaming systems. I'm not trying to diss your rig, just being honest. This is probably one reason the video card doesn't fit -- servers don't usually need great gaming-grade graphics cards, so providing ample physical space on the PCI-E x16 slot is not necessarily an important design choice. I don't work as a server admin, though, so I don't see a lot of server motherboards. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the motherboard's firmware is not optimized for that GTX 260 and that could be cause the stuttering. We'll probably want to consider flashing your motherboard's firmware.
2. 128 GB RAM is a bit excessive for a gaming rig (at least here in 2016). Great for servers hosting virtual machines and SQL databases, but not really necessary for gaming. However, because of the age of the processor (32nm lithography is Sandy Bridge era, circa 2012), I am inferring that you acquired this server used and it just came with that much.
3. Dual processors plus a graphics card can be a pretty power thirsty build. Don't rule out the PSU completely.

Getting to the bottom of the problem will take some localization. We'll have to run tests, replace/remove parts, etc. and pay close attention to how the computer's behavior is affected in each test.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Xavven

[TheGuyNamedAlan]

@Red Iron Crown plz move this to the technical support

Edited October 4, 2016 by TheGuyNamedAlan

[DrLicor]

Holy Kerbal, 128 GB or RAM, what do you do with your PC except for KSP, rendering etc.? 

[Nich]

lol I know 128gb of ram is a bit rediculous.   I could load a blue ray into memory. The idea is hopefully it will last 7-10 years and it was fairly cheap

[DrLicor]

4 minutes ago, Nich said:

lol I know 128gb of ram is a bit rediculous.   I could load a blue ray into memory. The idea is hopefully it will last 7-10 years and it was fairly cheap

Haha how much are you using normally? 3% max? But ram gets better to. It's cheap but now you have DDR3 and DDR4 for instance. But I'm for sure it will last at least 7 years haha

[Nich]

I also play eq on a private server. I should be able to expand my raid to 32 characters (1 for each core) fairly easy. That's only 4 gb of memory per account :/

[Mako]

KSP has been using multiple cores for a while. Until the 1.1 update, however, it could not split the intensive physics calculations between cores. Since 1.1 KSP has been able to split the physics calculations by ship. When you separate stages or undock, the game will start processing physics for the separate vessels on separate cores. When you dock it moves everything for that vessel to one core.

I know it's possible to set the specific cores available for specific software to use. Have you tried limiting KSP to using only one CPU?

[Nich]

So I tried running it as administrator and it actually ran a little better

I updated the mb bois first thing after getting everything put together. 

 

@Xavven CPU report

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0iPRE-stt2CUHZCdG5nTnNwX2s

 

On cloud gate v1.1

Graphics score of 12,508

Physics 8,646

No stuttering at all but I am really disappointed in the physics score I would have guessed my physics score would have been 100-200 times better then my graphics score.

I could not run Sky diver as it said my GPU was not directX 11 compatitable.

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Nich

[Xavven]

18 hours ago, Nich said:

So I tried running it as administrator and it actually ran a little better

I updated the mb bois first thing after getting everything put together. 

 

@Xavven CPU report

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0iPRE-stt2CUHZCdG5nTnNwX2s

 

On cloud gate v1.1

Graphics score of 12,508

Physics 8,646

No stuttering at all but I am really disappointed in the physics score I would have guessed my physics score would have been 100-200 times better then my graphics score.

I could not run Sky diver as it said my GPU was not directX 11 compatitable.

 

Thanks! Those scores are decent enough to play KSP. The fact that you had no stuttering on cloud gate but stuttering in KSP sort of implies that the fault is more with KSP than your computer. Do you have any other 3D video games you can launch and test? How do they perform? There are some free-to-play games you could download from Steam just to compare.

Your physics score is good, actually. Mine is about 4600 on a Core i5 Ivy Bridge (4 cores compared to your 16) and it plays KSP extremely smoothly, but I have a newer graphics card (GTX 950) that puts my graphics score in the 15,000's.

It's still not exactly clear what the problem is. If it were me, I'd start experimenting with removing components. What happens if you take out all but 1 RAM DIMM? (8GB is enough to run KSP -- honestly 128 GB is complete overkill) What if you restrict KSP to only 4 threads on one of your CPUs by setting its process affinity? (Here's how you do that: http://www.howtogeek.com/121775/how-to-force-windows-applications-to-use-a-specific-cpu/) Are you able to fit your graphics card in the PCIe x16 slot after you remove some RAM? If so, does that improve the game's performance?

[Nich]

@XavvenI attempted 1 core on processor 1 and the game played very badly.  4 cores on processor 1 and it played better then the previous.  8 cores on processor 1 and it played better yet.  Switched to processor 2 with 8 cores and it was better yet. 16 cores on processor and it was 95% playable.  Now it lags for 10 ms once every 1-2 seconds rather then 1 second every 30 seconds.

 

http://imgur.com/a/o2g4n

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Nich

[Nich]

So my stuttering has been completely fixed.  It was the combination of

1. Limiting to 1 CPU

2. adding the anti stutter mod

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/139128-12-memgraph-1101-with-stutter-reduction/

3. Not installing windows updates