Multiplayer & graphical update?

[Tourist]

I think the best way to deal with the time warp issue is really just to sidestep it completely. I have an idea about how to do this, but I think it would required rethinking what multiplayer means and looks like in a KSP context. In particular I think the idea of two (or more) human controlled ships interacting in the same instance may need to be rethought, even though it is generally what I believe people imagine.

When you break what you could actually do with independently controlled craft there is very few tasks that are actually improved or made more fun except pure mucking around (flying around the KSC). Take docking.... what you want when docking is for the target ship to be stationary relative to the active ship. If the target ship is changing its relative velocity, or really doing anything, docking is actually harder. In a two player context one player is actually trying to dock, the other really has to be hands off anyway. 

Take non-cooperative docking.... ie space pirates. Really, this all comes down to fuel. If the target ship has enough fuel the intercept will always be avoided. If the pirate has enough fuel after the target runs out, it will always intercept. Ok, so they have intercepted. If the target has any RCS fuel docking is impossible, Claw attachment maybe not absolutely impossible, but is is pretty much impossible.

Lets take planetary exploration. You could have fun driving side by side with your friend, or exploring a region. But, really, KSP is not really an exploration game. Its about the planning the journey, not the destination. There are no caves, no interesting flaura or fauna, the anomalies are fine, but really, not that interesting in an exploration context.  

On the other hand. On the other hand, there is a way of having a co-operative space program, without needing to worry about warp. If what I read in the forums is a guide, what people are really talking about is using other players infrastructure. So the simple solution is just to facilitate the sharing of spacestations/satellites/craft/kerbals and their location with friends. For instance I sent a space station to Eve. I allow it to be shared. All other players may then choose if they wish to import it into their game. If they do, just appears in the location where I left the other players game. You just hand wave how it got there with some flavour text (an announcement indicating that it has been on its ways for years and finally arrived.) You could allow others to add to it... perhaps the other player adds a module, then decides whether to "share" the update module with others. Meaning anyone who updates from then on will have the module attached (perhaps the original builder has ultimate authority to accept or decline.) You eliminate situations where a module appears while somebody is in the vicinity have having a rule that it can't update if the change occurs when in physics range or the same SOI etc.

Other mulitplayer things could be worked around. Races for instance, the winner could be determined by each players game clock. 

Its not perfect, but I think it works more elegantly. 

 

[Leafbaron]

Here's another instance for a thought experiment. You and the other players in the server plan your missions to explore the Jool system. One guy goes to Laythe another to Val...etc. You rendezvous in LKO and set up the same maneuver nodes, burn at the same time so that your transfer orbits are nearly identical. One guy time warps and the others do not. For the time warping guy does he see the others vessels flying on rails close by to him? what happens when he stops time warping, will the other players vessels be on screen just physics less until the game clock syncs? what happens to the players who did not time warp. do they see players one ship in the same orbit just physics less as well? or does the time warping players ship just disappear? 

[Wanderhoof]

I would like to see a multi-player option added to the game (figuring out time-warp mechanics aside).  I'm trying to avoid being salty in my reply here, but some of the posts I read... let's say my reaction to them was somewhere on the spectrum between disheartened and frustrated. Thus, unfortunately, while I do 'come in peace', some of my thoughts on the matter are probably tinged a shade of confrontational, so I will offer preemptive apologies here.

- Just because you personally wouldn't use or don't want a feature added to the game is not the same as saying no one else would use or want said feature or that it would not be a good feature to add to the game.  (For example, I'm not into building space planes for the time-being, but I think it is a great feature in the game and enjoy seeing what other players create with it.)

- Just because you don't know of a use for a feature is no the same as the feature having no use.

- Just because there are large or difficult challenges to address to make a feature viable (such as handling time warp with multiplayer) doesn't mean the feature isn't viable or reasonably implementable.

- Multiplayer is not just about receiving validation from others, but can be about adding new dynamics from cooperative problem-solving to the enjoyment of sharing wonderful experiences or overcoming challenges together to resource or operational delegation to even adding some manner of competitive challenge.

There could be a lot of fun and interesting challenges and even advantages to a multiplayer feature, even one implemented on a limited scale.  The closest analogous game I can think of is Flight Simulator, where different people I played with enjoyed many different aspects of the game and those different experiences came together into a greater whole.  Some people enjoyed being the ATC, some people enjoyed flying about small aircraft, some people enjoyed the pilot-copilot experience of working together,  some people enjoyed flying large passenger aircraft, and some people enjoyed just being passengers on those large passenger aircraft and watching what happened during the flight.

Definitely because of the scope of space travel, notably when it comes to time management, there are some inherent challenges to implementing a multiplayer feature to KSP.  And, I honestly have no idea what would be needed to be added to the software architecture to support such a thing.  But, I do see a lot of possibility not entirely dissimilar to the above analogy.

Some players could be mining on the Mun, others could be making science trips to a orbital station, while others could be making supply runs, while someone else could be managing the tracking station, assigning flight paths, controlling the comnet, and so on.  I do think just plopping multi-player into the game as is wouldn't be 'enough'.  It would probably benefit from its own game mode with additional objectives and missions specific to that play style (such as, a challenge to dock two player-controlled craft in space, etc.).

That all said, I do see multiplayer as something that could potentially add new 'worlds' of experience to KSP.

[Elthore]

A bit of an old thread but i didnt want to start another....

Id like to encourage anyone with doubts about multiplayer to actually go and try DMP. It is A LOT of fun, with friends or just strangers. Its a similar kind of gameplay to garry's mod. You dont have to ride on top of other peoples' creations...watching and chatting, interacting off-sync(adding parts to stations and such) is plenty of fun and very inspiring.

Also, you are all analyzing timewarp too much, you do NOT have to interact with players that you arent going to dock immediately with so just play the game as you would in SP. When 2 players are ready to interact(under 2km, active vessels), its a simple matter of the player further back in time clicking the sync button. 

Not sure if this was discussed but a couple of features included in DMP add much to the experience, that is the craft sharing and screenshot sharing. Any craft a player chooses to upload is stored on the server and can be downloaded almost instantly(ready to load ingame).

Final note, I am VERY disappointed Squad seems to be giving up the promised multiplayer feature, joining the likes of FDev and Sean Murray. This was the single feature Ive been looking forward to the most.

[diomedea]

32 minutes ago, Elthore said:

A bit of an old thread but i didnt want to start another....

Id like to encourage anyone with doubts about multiplayer to actually go and try DMP. It is A LOT of fun, with friends or just strangers. Its a similar kind of gameplay to garry's mod. You dont have to ride on top of other peoples' creations...watching and chatting, interacting off-sync(adding parts to stations and such) is plenty of fun and very inspiring.

Also, you are all analyzing timewarp too much, you do NOT have to interact with players that you arent going to dock immediately with so just play the game as you would in SP. When 2 players are ready to interact(under 2km, active vessels), its a simple matter of the player further back in time clicking the sync button. 

Not sure if this was discussed but a couple of features included in DMP add much to the experience, that is the craft sharing and screenshot sharing. Any craft a player chooses to upload is stored on the server and can be downloaded almost instantly(ready to load ingame).

Final note, I am VERY disappointed Squad seems to be giving up the promised multiplayer feature, joining the likes of FDev and Sean Murray. This was the single feature Ive been looking forward to the most.

Well, to me, good choice to not have started another thread. This one is still relevant.

Beyond that, concur about DMP. Lot of fun, truly.

In the end, wasn't DMP that good already, would be a lot easier for Squad to create something better in stock. Other features have priority for some reason...

[panzer1b]

I used to love DMP, sadly there are too many sync bugs right now to play it properly with anything but the most basic of interactions.  The game either crashes, lags to the point of like 5 FPS max, or krakens out with things like craft duplicating themselves or the infamous bug when docking to anything that is actively controlled by another player.

As for the graphics overhaul, i think its safe to say its completely and uttery dead in the water until a few years from now (if ever).  In case you guys havent heard, the rocket part revamp has been shelved by squad, and from the little recent dev info i know (of which half is rumors and speculation), i dont believe there is much effort going into any graphics overhauls.  Guess the "artists" are being put to good use designing useless promotional crap like "plushies" and other things that at least on a personal level, i couldnt care less about.  Makes me kinda wonder what direction the company is heading in. 

the only thing thats sure certain now is that we have 1.2.1 and it works and we have enough mods to fix most of the broken stock things so its not that bad even if the game stops being developed right now...