Using HOTAS gaming joysticks in KSP

[Raptor kerman]

Hello all,

I've been playing KSP for a while now, I find that the traditional QEWASD keys we use to control our creations are a bit weird to use. Since there are so many HOTAS style gaming joysticks out there, I wondered if they are compatible in KSP. It would make the game so much easier and might even add a new angle on realism, sorry, kerbalism. 

Thanks in advance!

 

chomp chomp

-raptor

Edited November 13, 2016 by Raptor kerman
grammar

[diomedea]

Indeed joysticks (and other controllers) are compatible with KSP, at least for what Unity is able to recognize as valid input. E.g. I use a Saitek X52Pro, all its 7 axis are recognized and all the buttons mapped from 0 to 19. However Unity knows nothing about buttons ID greater than 19, and clearly knows nothing about the multiple-action controls (Hat, POV 1 and 2) or the different modes.

To make full use of all those controls typical of a HOTAS, I had therefore to make a profile with the joystick to match those extra buttons to keys recognized in KSP.

[Palaceviking]

I'm using a thrustmaster for flight, a ps2 controller for driving and kerbals and still the keyboard for rockets.

[pincushionman]

3 hours ago, diomedea said:

…and clearly knows nothing about the multiple-action controls (Hat, POV 1 and 2) or the different modes…

Not entirely true. I can't comment on the behavior of sticks that signal hat switches as a set of individual button presses (since mine does not, though 8-way hats might have to), but your hat might instead be an additional set of digital axes. That's how my Microsoft Precision 2 maps in KSP, and that's consistent with how the Windows joystick calobration/test utility views it.

But it's also a KSP issue, not a Unity one, if it can't do what you want - I play Sky Rogue, another Unity game, and it has no trouble mapping my hat to discrete behaviors.

Edited November 13, 2016 by pincushionman

[diomedea]

7 minutes ago, pincushionman said:

Not entirely true. I can't comment on the behavior of sticks that signal hat switches as a set of individual button presses (since mine does not, though 8-way hats might have to), but your hat might instead be an additional set of digital axes. That's how my Microsoft Precision 2 maps in KSP, and that's consistent with how the Windows joystick calobration/test utility views it.

But it's also a KSP issue, not a Unity one, if it can't do what you want - I play Sky Rogue, another Unity game, and it has no trouble mapping my hat to discrete behaviors.

So ? Are you implying my HOTAS hats should work like your stick does? I'm absolutely sure they don't. I've told there are no problems with axes, Unity recognizes all of them, that seems consistent with what you said. On the other hand, MS Precision 2 has just 8 buttons and a 8-way hat, doesn't it? That means Unity has no trouble to recognize all 16 the buttons, be it in KSP or Sky Rogue. But Unity can't recognize anything beyond button #19, something you won't be able to notice with your stick.

[Raptor kerman]

8 hours ago, diomedea said:

Indeed joysticks (and other controllers) are compatible with KSP, at least for what Unity is able to recognize as valid input. E.g. I use a Saitek X52Pro, all its 7 axis are recognized and all the buttons mapped from 0 to 19. However Unity knows nothing about buttons ID greater than 19, and clearly knows nothing about the multiple-action controls (Hat, POV 1 and 2) or the different modes.

To make full use of all those controls typical of a HOTAS, I had therefore to make a profile with the joystick to match those extra buttons to keys recognized in KSP.

cool, btw, do thrust masters work with mac OS ?

[diomedea]

1 hour ago, Raptor kerman said:

cool, btw, do thrust masters work with mac OS ?

Eh, very good question. I use a PC and a Saitek, not a Thrustmaster, therefore can provide no experience. Googled a bit around, but could not find one single site telling for sure.

[pincushionman]

8 hours ago, diomedea said:

So ? Are you implying my HOTAS hats should work like your stick does? I'm absolutely sure they don't. I've told there are no problems with axes, Unity recognizes all of them, that seems consistent with what you said. On the other hand, MS Precision 2 has just 8 buttons and a 8-way hat, doesn't it? That means Unity has no trouble to recognize all 16 the buttons, be it in KSP or Sky Rogue. But Unity can't recognize anything beyond button #19, something you won't be able to notice with your stick.

Agree with the statement about buttons beyond 19; can't comment. I was replying about the comment about "Unity doesn't understand hats or POV," which is why I cut down the quote to only that portion. I just wanted the OP and other readers not to get the wrong impression and assume that hat switches don't work at all. They might, or might not, and it's gonna depend on what exactly the hat maps as - and what exactly you're trying to map it to.

You of course know your controller much better than I do And KSP may indeed drop an egg on it. But I know I went for some time assuming that my controller's hat "buttons" weren't working at all, until I found out quite by accident that this wasn't the case, KSP just saw that control  differently than I had assumed. And that other Unity games were much more flexible about how that same hat could be mapped.

Many apologies for the confusion.

[Raptor kerman]

On 13/11/2016 at 11:54 PM, diomedea said:

Eh, very good question. I use a PC and a Saitek, not a Thrustmaster, therefore can provide no experience. Googled a bit around, but could not find one single site telling for sure.

Found a french site.

[Capt. Hunt]

On 11/13/2016 at 8:34 AM, diomedea said:

So ? Are you implying my HOTAS hats should work like your stick does? I'm absolutely sure they don't. I've told there are no problems with axes, Unity recognizes all of them, that seems consistent with what you said. On the other hand, MS Precision 2 has just 8 buttons and a 8-way hat, doesn't it? That means Unity has no trouble to recognize all 16 the buttons, be it in KSP or Sky Rogue. But Unity can't recognize anything beyond button #19, something you won't be able to notice with your stick.

I'm using a full CH Pro rig, with Pro Throttle Pedals and Combatstick, the throttle and stick have two different types of POV hats.  Some of them act like a series of buttons for each direction (like D-Pads), and some of them act like 2-axis thumbsticks.  I'm kinda surprised your stick has only D-pad style hats, most that I've seen use only the thumbstick style, Those should still work, you just have to map the "buttons" to the different camera move keys.  The thumbstick hats function just like joystick axes, and can be mapped the same way as your stick and/or throttle.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Capt. Hunt

[diomedea]

14 hours ago, Capt. Hunt said:

...  I'm kinda surprised your stick has only D-pad style hats, most that I've seen use only the thumbstick style, Those should still work, you just have to map the "buttons" to the different camera move keys.  The thumbstick hats function just like joystick axes, and can be mapped the same way as your stick and/or throttle.

Nice explanation about how thumbsticks work. But you're assuming untrue things about my HOTAS.

It has 3 programmable hats, each can be independently set to act as 8-way or 4-way POV controller or as a set of 4 or 8 buttons (D-pad). Unity only recognizes raw key output (single key presses), nothing alike a POV controller, that's why I wrote of such limitations above: I have to program those programmable hats in my profile as sets of different buttons and assign each button to one key defined in the KSP Input settings.

Apart those, it has one other programmable hat (called "mouse controller" because when not programmed to something else, it acts as a mouse replica). That's your "thumbstick". Of course when used as a couple of axes, it is mapped by Unity and usable in KSP. Or it can be programmed as a additional set of buttons.

Also, it has a programmable "scroll wheel", which also isn't recognized by Unity (but keys programmed to the scroll directions are) and other 2 scroll controls (generally used to control HOTAS functions, require external programming to interface with the application and use with the LCD display to show real time game data). Of course, Unity can't control those, and neither natively the multi-state LED lights with this HOTAS, as it has no interface with the library of HOTAS functions. But I'm confident some KSP modding could extend control to those lights.

Another feature with my HOTAS, not recognized by Unity, is mode selection. That allows to use up to 6 different profile pages, to match each of the HOTAS controls to different commands, that comes good in different phases of a flight.

All included, 9 axes and 39 buttons (when all hats and wheels are mapped as buttons), 11 programmable state lights, LCD display, a feel and durability only matched by more expensive devices (and not all).

But let's stay on the subject of how HOTAS and KSP work together, instead of discussing the relative merits of each brand and model.

[Capt. Hunt]

that's still odd, maybe it's a quirk of the multi-mode design of the hats on your HOTAS, my thumbstick POV hats map to joystick axes just fine.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Capt. Hunt