My bad Impulse RCS part mod attempt

[gyros81]

Ok, I acknowledge that this may be an old idea, or perhaps in the wrong area. If so, I am sorry. I don't usually poke my head up for air. I looked around for a mod similar to what I was thinking of and found none. If perhaps I missed it, then I would certainly love to know about it.

Quite frankly, I got sic and tired of carrying cumbersome extraneous RCS tanks. I would rather just carry a few batteries linked to a recharge system.

I decided I wanted a Star Trek style energy based attitude control system. Now, yes I know the Impulse engines in Star Trek were not stabilization and control systems, they were sub-light engines. Well it was the closest analog I could think of for my purposes. I am willing to hear better ideas.

Basically, I attempted to use the skin and specs from the large "Omnilight" from B9 Aerospace and combine them with the RCS control function of a standard RCS blister. I replace the mono-propellant cost with a low electric charge cost and rationalized it with a half-assed explanation of some "superconducting magneto-plasmic ceramic alloy" pseudoscience. Basically, I just wanted better, finer control in space flight without carrying bulky mono-p tanks that inevitably run empty. Plus the blinky lights would be cooler than that little mist spray effect. I wanted the lights to flash yellow or orange when the Retro control "field" is active, but so far they just shine white constantly and provide no reaction or control at all. Undoubtedly I've made numerous errors, but hopefully someone else sees what i was attempting. And hopefully, it's a viable idea.

It's sloppy and jammed together. Again, I'm sorry. I will not claim to be a programmer or even to understand code. It's a crude effort, so please forgive my limited abilities. If anyone thinks this might be useful, can be improved upon, corrected, or etc; I would be most interested in hearing feedback. Perhaps you could help in straightening out this little project of mine. Or at least point me in the right direction. Thank You
In all it's glory, here's it is:

***After considering for a bit, I realized the term RCS would really no longer apply to a part operating in the fashion I am proposing, so I guess I am trying to make an ICS- Impulse Control System.***

PART
{
    name = MontSco Experimental Heavy Imulse RCS Blister Antonius I
    module = Part
    author = GNL
    MODEL
    {
        model = B9_Aerospace/Parts/Utility_Light_N/N2_Omni_Large
    }
    scale = 1.0
    node_attach = 0.01930076, 0, 0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0
    TechRequired = specializedControl
    entryCost = 400
    cost = 100
    category = Control
    subcategory = 0
    title = MontSco Experimental Heavy Imulse RCS Blister Antonius I
    manufacturer = McCoy Engineering Enterprises
    description = The mp reaction control Impulse pads works by imparting a gravitational force via newly invented Duradymian superconducting magneto         plasmic ceramic alloy. Provides superior maneuvering and stabilization of spacecraft with no need to carry tanks.  
    attachRules = 0,1,0,0,0
    mass = 0.05
    dragModelType = default
    maximum_drag = 0.001
    minimum_drag = 0.001
    angularDrag = 2
    crashTolerance = 25
    maxTemp = 3100
    PhysicsSignificance = 1
    bulkheadProfiles = srf
    MODULE
    {
        runningEffectname = ModuleRCS
        lightName = light_N1
        useAnimationDim = true
        useAutoDim = true
        lightBrightenSpeed = 10
        lightDimSpeed = 10
    ignitionThreshold = 0.1
    minThrust = 0
    maxThrust = 12
    heatProduction = .04
    animationName = B9_Utility_Light_N1
        useResources = true
            PROPELLANT
            {
                name = ElectricCharge
                ratio = .1
        }
            
    }
            key = 0 220
            key = 1 120
            key = 4 0.001
        }

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by gyros81

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

HIya, sadly you cannot use pure EC as a propellant, to be a propellant the resource has to have mass, EC has no mass. All the EC engines i'm aware of use some other minuscule mass resource  to provide that needed mass, such as FSCoolant or define your own  resource, before you do though make sure it isn't already in the community resource pack, may save some work if there's something suitable there you can use, but purely EC nope sadly not

[Streetwind]

A typical workaround is to include a generator in the engine itself that generates a sort of bogus propellant resource (like "virtual particles") that provides the mass component. That way you need no tanks, only electricity.

[gyros81]

I take "bogus propellant" to imply that the game is not limited as to the specific type of "propellant" or "fuel", as long as there is a mass component as required by the game mechanics to provide inertial reaction.  Would that be correct?
If so, then the generator attached to the engine could hypothetically be a "gravimetric plasma" generator or some such. The game mechanics would count it as solid mass, but a simple tweak to the item description makes the propellant an energy based inertial reaction. Do I have that right?
I'm not especially tied to Star trek aspect, please note. But I believe a part that cold provide superior control at little to no renewable resource cost would be pretty useful. I would very much like the part to be, in game, an energy-based system rather than a physical reaction one. Plasma is a highly charged form of matter, true, but I think the spirit of the game will allow me to lump it with nearish future tech,
Also, i was curious as to the dispersion distance of the plasma vs the MP. The part is modded from a light, which spreads out over a much wider area than the RCS MP plume. How can I get the plasma to disperse over the same area as the light, but without the plum effects of the rcs or bright light effects of the lamp?
Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it.

Edited December 9, 2016 by gyros81
typo

[Streetwind]

40 minutes ago, gyros81 said:

I take "bogus propellant" to imply that the game is not limited as to the specific type of "propellant" or "fuel", as long as there is a mass component as required by the game mechanics to provide inertial reaction.  Would that be correct?
If so, then the generator attached to the engine could hypothetically be a "gravimetric plasma" generator or some such. The game mechanics would count it as solid mass, but a simple tweak to the item description makes the propellant an energy based inertial reaction. Do I have that right?

Correct.

Just be aware that you must create whatever resource you wish to use first, via a RESOURCE_DEFINITION config node in a separate file. See ResourcesGeneric.cfg in the Squad folder for how it works. You can pick whatever values you think are sensible, so long as the resource name is unique and density is non-zero (in order for the stuff to have mass).

You'll need a RESOURCE node inside the engine in order to store an insignificant amount of the resource as it is being generated. It is possible to set this up so that the 'tank' doesn't show up in the engine's rightclick menu. See the invisible EC storage on rocket engines that have alternators.

 

45 minutes ago, gyros81 said:

Also, i was curious as to the dispersion distance of the plasma vs the MP. The part is modded from a light, which spreads out over a much wider area than the RCS MP plume. How can I get the plasma to disperse over the same area as the light, but without the plum effects of the rcs or bright light effects of the lamp?

Exhaust plumes are textures that are implemented via EFFECTS nodes. Unfortunately I know nothing more than that.

[dboi88]

@gyros81 Hi, welcome to the forums.

No need justify why you want to make a part. Some may call it OP some may call it cheating, but in my book KSP is a game that should be played exactly as the player wants. That's what makes it so fun. If you want this part you SHOULD make it and you shouldn't listen to anyone telling you not to. Not that anyone has but there are plenty out there that would.

I assume you've not got this working yet? I say this because when I made some parts with rcs thrusters myself, I needed to add the transform directions for the RCS jets in Unity before you perform the final export of the model. Therefore i think there's a pretty fundamental problem you've got, in that KSP will have no idea in which direction it is able to apply the forces from the RCS module in. So will apply none because the model you've chosen will not have these. Secondly that module you've written in the part config is all wrong. I can see where you were going though, it makes logical sense at least  but it won't work.

So you are going to need to learn a few new skills to complete this little project, but don't worry, you are going to be more than capable of getting this working, and i'm going to give you all the help you need to ensure you do! Someone did this for me a few years ago and it's time i did the same for some one else.

First of all your going to have to make a choice, use a different model, it would need to be one that already is an RCS block(you CANNOT add these RCS transforms to an existing *.mu model you would need the mod authors original files to do that) and will need the number of thrusters you want. So really for your idea you'd want the full 5 axis which does limit you a lot in terms of parts to pick from, but we could easily reskin one so it didn't look the same.

Or learn to make a new part from scratch and add that to KSP. This is what i am going to strongly suggest you do. It will open up so many doors for you in regards to modding and it is going to be really simply, I promise. We'd start of really simple and just make a square block that works in game as your new Impulse Control System, then if you wanted move onto making a model that is aesthetically pleasing. This would literally take no more than an hour on your first go, a bit longer if we have to talk back and forth. But once you've done this once you'll have all the tools you need to make any part you want.

Second your going to learn how part modules and the part config files work in general. Again it's really simple once explained and there are loads of documents to refer to for specifics when you need them.

Bonus you can do all of this with free software.

However, if that doesn't interest you I have some parts that i made that i think you might like and i can share them with you if you wanted. I made some parts to reduce part count in regards to RCS and control systems myself before we got 64x when part count was EVERY thing. I made lots of parts but there are two parts in particular i think you'd be interested in. A small thin mono tank with 4 built in 5 way RCS ports and one slightly larger mono tank with built built in probe core, batteries, reaction wheels and again 4 5 way rcs blocks, i made 4 sizes of each. So in my rockets i put the bigger one in the middle with the same sized fuel tanks on either side and then the smaller ones at the end. This reduces part count from 20 parts for the full control system down to only 3 and it gives you a perfectly balanced control system with loads of propellant storage. I also spent loads of time balancing these parts against the stock parts so all the weights, volumes, thrust power, reaction wheel strength ect. are all = to the original 20 parts.

So from this design

To this design

 

Edited December 10, 2016 by dboi88

[gyros81]

I would definitely prefer to create the part from scratch. I have a few other ideas I've been noodling around with, and getting this one done could open up some doors for me.
I will admit, all that is fairly intimidating and specific info. I want to do this right, so I believe I am going to have to study it for a bit to make sure I have a handle on it. There is no time crunch. I would rather get it done well, than done immediately.

Thanks again to everyone. I appreciate it very much. Now I am getting excited. The ICS may actually yet be realized.

[dboi88]

On 12/10/2016 at 4:23 AM, gyros81 said:

I would definitely prefer to create the part from scratch. I have a few other ideas I've been noodling around with, and getting this one done could open up some doors for me.
I will admit, all that is fairly intimidating and specific info. I want to do this right, so I believe I am going to have to study it for a bit to make sure I have a handle on it. There is no time crunch. I would rather get it done well, than done immediately.

Thanks again to everyone. I appreciate it very much. Now I am getting excited. The ICS may actually yet be realized.

Ok, the first two places to start then would be this tutorial. 

and have a look through this documentation, and have a look at how the part modules work in each part type, so take a look at the configs for engines, rcs, reaction wheels and you'll see how different part modules are added to make a part do different things.

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/CFG_File_Documentation

and give me a shout when you're either ready to start or get stuck  

[gyros81]

Excellent, will do.  I can use all the info I can get.

[gyros81]

I thought High School Algebra was bad back in the day, but this material simply refuses to absorb into my brain. I've been reading,and re-reading the tutorials over and over. I have been trying to struggle through it. But after several days, I still understand practically nothing of the process.  I can see what components are required for a functioning part in game now, but how to actually write each of those and coalesce it all into the correct format is proving elusive.

I am seriously discouraged and frustrated. I am hoping it's just a case of improper attitude, intimidation, etc. The only progress I have made is getting about half-finished with a basic model. Just a wireframe png file. I got stuck on Part 3 of Beginners Part Modding Tutorial. I began with the modeling aspect because it was the least technically complicated.

I am going to take a few days and try assembling the cfg file. Getting my mind right and taking it from a new angle may help me process it all. It will probably be mostly placeholders and rough outlines at first. I figure even if it's way off, it can still serve as a teaching aid for me.

Anyone else recommend some other good reliable tutorials?  The simpler, the better? Most everything I searched out was fairly thick with technical references and programming terms.

And I will say, My Hat Is Off to all of you out there who can actually do this without struggling. I am truly in awe and envy.  I consider myself a reasonably intelligent and able person. College degree, fairly mechanically inclined, etc. I have NEVER had to work this hard IN MY LIFE to understand something.

Edited December 17, 2016 by gyros81
elaboration, change of heart

[gyros81]

Ok, here's a second draft. Still not from scratch, but I think piecemealing it together is helping me puzzle it together in my brain. It's still far from complete, but hopefull a step in the right direction.  I would appreciate finding out where I've gone wrong thus far. Still having trouble finishing the model.  Thanks!

PART
{
    // --- general parameters ---
    name = GNL_Control_ICS_Panel_Impulseplasma
    module = Part
    author = GNL81

    // --- asset parameters ---
    MODEL
    {
        model = ICS/Parts/Med Panel/control_ics_panel_impulse_med
    }
    scale = 1
    rescaleFactor = 1

    // --- node definitions ---
    // definition format is Position X, Position Y, Position Z, Up X, Up Y, Up Z
    node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0

    // --- editor parameters ---
    TechRequired = advFlightControl
    entryCost = 2000
    cost = 400
    category = Control
    subcategory = 0
    title = Impulse Plasma Panel Med
    manufacturer = Gyro Industries
    description = Gravimetric Impulse Plasma generators ....technobable...etc etc.

    // attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
    attachRules = 0,1,0,0,0

    // --- standard part parameters ---
    mass = 0.1
    dragModelType = default
    maximum_drag = 0.001
    minimum_drag = 0.001
    angularDrag = 2
    crashTolerance = 35
    maxTemp = 4800// = 4800
    bulkheadProfiles = srf
    tags = control maneuver manoeuvre ics rcs rotate shield steer thruster translate
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Plasma
  density = 0.0001  
  unitCost = .01
  hsp = 2000
  flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
}

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleICS
        thrusterTransformName = ICSthruster
        minThrust = 2
        maxThrust = 16
        heatProduction = 0
            useResources = true
            PROPELLANT
            {
                resourceName = Plasma
        ratio = .01
            resourceFlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
                atmosphereCurve
        {
            
        }
    }
}