[1.9-1.10] Global Construction

Meliandah · June 14, 2017

Heya o/ I'm playing on 1.3 and got a genuine bug, no more workshop available once i leave Kerbin for DUNA , only on the 2 Mun/Minmus. I tried everything.

I should have 4 workshops available on Duna when i landed 3 Parts & my Crate but no workshops appear in the list, and if i delete on Mun or remove a EPLaunchPad (thought it come from here, too much WShop or mod mix), but nothing change, they disappear or staying from list (so the mods work fine). So i really don't see why i have no workshop available on DUNA and can't deploy my crate with the EPLaunchPad
I should sent 4 Parts directly lol, landing was easy in fact

Any idea plz ?
I don't have lot of mods, InterStellar / EPL / Ground / Malemute / Planetary Base System (the best for outpost construction with EPL dedicated buildings) & littles MODs : KIS KAS(KitKat ^_^ ) + Alarm +Engineer +IFuelSwitch +SurfaceLight(modmanager 2.7.5, maybe theses ?) & Konstruction

PS : I think they work fine on Kerbin's Muns but never tried a crate but i see them and click/choose them in list with their WorkForce

Edited June 14, 2017 by Meliandah
Forgot the PS at end

allista · June 14, 2017

1 hour ago, Meliandah said:

Heya o/ I'm playing on 1.3 and got a genuine bug, no more workshop available once i leave Kerbin for DUNA , only on the 2 Mun/Minmus. I tried everything.

I should have 4 workshops available on Duna when i landed 3 Parts & my Crate but no workshops appear in the list, and if i delete on Mun or remove a EPLaunchPad (thought it come from here, too much WShop or mod mix), but nothing change, they disappear or staying from list (so the mods work fine). So i really don't see why i have no workshop available on DUNA and can't deploy my crate with the EPLaunchPad
I should sent 4 Parts directly lol, landing was easy in fact

Any idea plz ?
I don't have lot of mods, InterStellar / EPL / Ground / Malemute / Planetary Base System (the best for outpost construction with EPL dedicated buildings) & littles MODs : KIS KAS(KitKat ) + Alarm +Engineer +IFuelSwitch +SurfaceLight(modmanager 2.7.5, maybe theses ?) & Konstruction

PS : I think they work fine on Kerbin's Muns but never tried a crate but i see them and click/choose them in list with their WorkForce

1. The main window only displays ships that are landed. Ships in flight/orbit are omitted from the list.

2. You can always summon the workshop control UI via its part menu (right click on the workshop part that you want to use, push Construction Window button).

3. If you have a landed ship with a workshop part that you're sure should work, but it still doesn't show in main window and there's not Construction Window button, than it probably is a bug. Then, please, share your KSP_Data/output_log.txt file via Dropbox/GoogleDrive/Pastebin or whatever you use; just post the link to the file.

Meliandah · June 15, 2017

Ohh i remember the construction button but never saw it back since i play on 1.3 I added the Malemute only from UKS , but it change things who should not This is the OutPut_log from launcher directory, i found only 1 file here :

Initialize engine version: 5.2.4f1 (98095704e6fe)
GfxDevice: creating device client; threaded=1
Direct3D:
    Version:  Direct3D 9.0c [nvd3dum.dll 21.21.13.7849]
    Renderer: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti
    Vendor:   NVIDIA
    VRAM:     1993 MB (via DXGI)
    Caps:     Shader=30 DepthRT=1 NativeDepth=1 NativeShadow=1 DF16=0 INTZ=1 NULL=1 RESZ=0 SlowINTZ=0
Begin MonoManager ReloadAssembly
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.UI.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.UI.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.Networking.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.Networking.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.Networking.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.Networking.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.UI.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.UI.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\System.Core.dll (this message is harmless)
- Completed reload, in  0.057 seconds
<RI> Initializing input.

<RI> Input initialized.

desktop: 1920x1080 60Hz; virtual: 1920x1080 at 0,0
<RI> Initialized touch support.

Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\System.dll (this message is harmless)
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\System.Xml.dll (this message is harmless)
Platform assembly: E:\Kerbal Space Program v1.3\Launcher_Data\Managed\Mono.Security.dll (this message is harmless)
Backup file overwritten
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

Local BuildID: 1804
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (6.1.7601) 64bit
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

ExecPath = E:/Kerbal Space Program v1.3/Launcher_Data\../KSP_x64.exe
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

E5150 path: E:/Kerbal Space Program v1.3/Launcher_Data\E5150.cfg.bak
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

Loading Settings...
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

Setting up 1 worker threads for Enlighten.
  Thread -> id: 8ac -> priority: 1 
Last BuildID: 1804
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

NEEDS UPDATEFalse
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 64)

I had to remove some files from Malemute who was modifying lot of other buildings data (like the directory of the company USI, but will try to re add to see). It add me a button on part "OLD GC Ressource converter" to convert into MaterialKit but i don't use the ressources of UKS mod Only the buggy Malemute i took.

EDIT : OKAY ! I FOUND AND CORRECTED THE BUG !!

In fact, after few tries, in your GroundWorkShopPatch.cfg i needed to invert the 2 MODULE datas like this :

ORIGINAL :
@PART[*]:HAS[#CrewCapacity[*],~CrewCapacity[0],!MODULE[NotGroundWorkshop],!MODULE[GroundWorkshop]]:FINAL
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = GroundWorkshop
		AutoEfficiency = True
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = OneTimeResourceConverter
		ConvertFrom = Metals
	}	
}

AFTER : 

@PART[*]:HAS[#CrewCapacity[*],~CrewCapacity[0],!MODULE[NotGroundWorkshop],!MODULE[GroundWorkshop]]:FINAL
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = OneTimeResourceConverter
		ConvertFrom = Metals
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = GroundWorkshop
		AutoEfficiency = True
	}
}

Then now, i have the 2 buttons on Part menu, "Old GC Ressource Convert" AND "Construction Window", also it's detected now and added into Ground Workshops List.

You should have a button creation order which is badly respected or bugged into your DLL (the only files i can't access, don't want to load in hexa xD), the inversion of the 2 Module brackets make all of it work

But 2nd problem is that i don't use MKS mod and I DONT HAVE MATERIALKITS ressources So in the Groundconstruction/Plugins/PluginData/GroundConstruction.glob , i just needed to change the ressource used to deploy Kits with RocketParts instead of MaterialKit

UseStockAppLauncher = true

StructureResourceName = RocketParts

etc......

Now it work fine and i can deploy kits with RocketParts on Duna My Launcher will be here in 18h lol

PS : By the way , someone know where i can find DLL sources to create Mods ?? Or where to start ?

I am also a senior developper & computing project management but i didn't found where to start to make mods.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Meliandah
Bug corrected & explained :)

Meliandah · June 15, 2017

Oh lol ! I made a backup of my game and apparently it don't work XD I think when i reloaded my backup save after each modification it made it work xD So i think the big problem is your Old GC Converter button, i remove it from GroundConstructionPatch.CFG file or i put 2 times the Ground Construction button It make it work ! But problem come from Old GC Converter and it's useless to let this because MaterialKits are not a community or game ressource, it's one created for MKS/USI Colonization mod, like RocketParts for EPL.

I dont use MKS/USI Mod so MaterialKits are totally useless and i can't even stock them No storage available.

And better to use RocketParts, because Planetary Base Mod add buildings specially for the EPLaunchpad.

THIS :
@PART[*]:HAS[#CrewCapacity[*],~CrewCapacity[0],!MODULE[NotGroundWorkshop],!MODULE[GroundWorkshop]]:FINAL
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = GroundWorkshop
		AutoEfficiency = True
	}	
}

OR THIS :
@PART[*]:HAS[#CrewCapacity[*],~CrewCapacity[0],!MODULE[NotGroundWorkshop],!MODULE[GroundWorkshop]]:FINAL
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = GroundWorkshop
		AutoEfficiency = True
	}
		MODULE
	{
		name = GroundWorkshop
		AutoEfficiency = True
	}

}

Edited June 15, 2017 by Meliandah

Terwin · June 15, 2017

4 hours ago, Meliandah said:

But 2nd problem is that i don't use MKS mod and I DONT HAVE MATERIALKITS ressources So in the Groundconstruction/Plugins/PluginData/GroundConstruction.glob , i just needed to change the ressource used to deploy Kits with RocketParts instead of MaterialKit

If you have the full GC mod(as opposed to just GC core) then the stock ISRU will (slowly) convert ore to material kits.

The only reason I Can think of to use RocketParts instead is if you have Extraplanetary Launchpads installed and are using that manufacturing path instead.

Meliandah · June 15, 2017

Yep i use the Launcher Pads, and i also have the ISRU who can convert into MaterialKit but without storage it will say "MKits full" non stop ^_^. Also the Planetary Base System have lot of buildings for EPLaunchPad & RocketParts production with dedicated drills & stuff.

You need this because if i have to send Crates all time i need to build something , on Duna its okay but when i'll colonize Jool & moons or other Systems (Kerbol & co but i didn't tried yet ^^ 1st i conquer the original solar system.

Also i want to build planes & co on Duna/Jool/Laythe to explore a bit with some quests. So sending each structure in Crates from Kerbin would be painful & very long

TheRagingIrishman · June 15, 2017

7 hours ago, Meliandah said:

But problem come from Old GC Converter and it's useless to let this because MaterialKits are not a community or game ressource, it's one created for MKS/USI Colonization mod, like RocketParts for EPL.

Actually Material Kits were originally created for OSE workshop. From there they were added to the Community Resource Pack and after they became an official community resource, RoverDude started using them in USI. If you just want containers for material kits, you can use USI_Core (https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI_Core/releases/tag/0.4.1.0) which only contains tanks and nuclear reactors.

allista · June 15, 2017

1 minute ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

Actually Material Kits were originally created for OSE workshop. From there they were added to the Community Resource Pack and after they became an official community resource, RoverDude started using them in USI. If you just want containers for material kits, you can use USI_Core (https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI_Core/releases/tag/0.4.1.0) which only contains tanks and nuclear reactors.

Or you can use Configurable Containers to store material kits in any tank, stock included :cool:

Meliandah · June 15, 2017

Ha yep the Tanks like i saw with the SpaceCrane Nice one, but if i need MKits only 1 time or 2 for crates ^^ useless to stock them, i keep producing RocketParts while i'm building (1400 stock max for a 17 000 RParts production for example).
But today was really painful...... I just open my crate fastly , and when i wanted to make my nuclear reactor for Duna Base, there was 1 ressource totally missing from universe to create UF4. FLUORITE is unexistant After trying lot of things, look forums & did what some people did to make it appear, nothing worked so >> i removed the fluorine from UF4 production directly XD. And finally i can start my Duna City with data scanning & co .

As you can see Planetary Base is the best one to make outpost ON planets . I tried the big solar "beam", but for now i never success to make Beams working to get power Maybe tomorrow with a new Orbital Station with VISTA Fusion Engine (who can also transmit in infrared from space). Maybe it need distance to work between emitter & receiver.

But i find the conversion from reactor to generator a bit useless & need to add too much piece (and like here i should need 2 generators to use 100% of my reactor, efficiency also go down with Heat if you don't cool them enoughly, anyway it's never higher than 60-64%).The reactor should create MJ or power directly, it's the goal.

I tried AntiMatter creation in the SciLab but it need 5 GW for full power (1,5GW max for now, 3 with a second generator, need another reactor so to make this nicely :D) but i hope AM exist.... not like Fluorite

PS : By the way the UKS mod could be nice but his buildings are too much for orbital station, not landing, he should make them like the planetary with a Flat Ground under, you'll never use them as Orbital Station because you need too much resources (like i dont see why a 2nd for building with Specialized Parts), and too much complication with too many ressources ^^ it wasn't hard but making cities is too laggy because of adding lot of vessels. it's the only mod i removed .
With a 3-coupler & planetary builds + EPL you can create & build anything where you land in 1 landing (or 2-coupler + 1 Crate like i did before XD)

On my picture, you remove the 2 big parts where there are Panels and Radiator on left&right in air (Fuel making & Reactor parts) then you have 3 parts added here in line (LauncherPad on extreme right), Workshop & Smelter + Drills between the huge radiators/panels in air, then you can build anything & have a launchpad .

Edited June 15, 2017 by Meliandah

Meliandah · June 16, 2017

Oh i found where to start to make plugin it's with Unity DL & C# ^^ But i'm also already on a 3D Web-GL game development and i'm looking for people to help me for models & graphisms
By the way in the interstellar mod i also found a big bug for the VISTA Engine ... It never go more than 1200 KN instead 7000, in fact there are values who was left @ 300-600-1200 KN for upgrades and there s a ratio in definition, just need to change theses values to 1250-3500-7000 to have full power after you just need to up the ISP to reduce your KN or switch the engine mod to down a lot & consume a lot less of fuel against power in GW. Would be better now ^_^ If it can help some people , because this engine can also transmit in beam after you are in orbit to power up outposts on planets.

Also generators (MHD-Large or Thermal) need to be put @ 99% efficiency on last upgrade, so after you can have Stellaris + VISTA (same size & very cool reactor+engine design ) who give you near 5GW and you can transmit with VISTA wealthly (need 4GW). So with 99% on generator (who go down a bit with heat), you'll stay a bit more than 4GW to transmit I found theses config very better

But forget the low fuel consumption ^^ who need near 8-10GW for each. Need anti-matter reactor , later

Edited June 16, 2017 by Meliandah

TheRagingIrishman · June 16, 2017

@Meliandah I think you posted in the wrong thread. This is Ground Construction, not KSPI-E.

Jasseji · June 20, 2017

Hello,

I seem to be running into some problem, game is career mode, crashing at startup, last stuff i see in log is:

[ERR 12:23:06.846] Cannot find a PartModule of typename 'BuildEngineer'
[ERR 12:23:06.847] Cannot find a PartModule of typename 'FlightEngineer'
[LOG 12:23:07.996] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'Bluedog_DB/Parts/Apollo/bluedog_Apollo_Block2_ActiveDockingMechanism/bluedog_Apollo_Block2_ActiveDockingMechanism'

I cant really figure out what is causing it, the game runs OK if i remove Ground Construction folder (AT_Utils is not causing it as i run it from another mod)

Propably a mod conflict but i cant really figure it out (could it try to overwrite some stuff from BDB ?)

Edit: i removed all the Parts and MM Patches from GC and the Game loads so it's not the plugin itself, anyone can point me on what to look for in regards to MM patch conflicts ?

Edited June 20, 2017 by Jasseji

allista · June 20, 2017

16 minutes ago, Jasseji said:
Hello,

I seem to be running into some problem, game is career mode, crashing at startup, last stuff i see in log is:
[ERR 12:23:06.846] Cannot find a PartModule of typename 'BuildEngineer'
[ERR 12:23:06.847] Cannot find a PartModule of typename 'FlightEngineer'
[LOG 12:23:07.996] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'Bluedog_DB/Parts/Apollo/bluedog_Apollo_Block2_ActiveDockingMechanism/bluedog_Apollo_Block2_ActiveDockingMechanism'
I cant really figure out what is causing it, the game runs OK if i remove Ground Construction folder (AT_Utils is not causing it as i run it from another mod)

Propably a mod conflict but i cant really figure it out (could it try to overwrite some stuff from BDB ?)

Edit: i removed all the Parts and MM Patches from GC and the Game loads so it's not the plugin itself, anyone can point me on what to look for in regards to MM patch conflicts ?

Could you share your output_log.txt file after the crash (via dropbox/gdrive etc.)? It would help a lot, because the errors you've posted cannot have anything to do with GC. Something else must be happening here.

Jasseji · June 20, 2017

yes i'm trying to narrow it down - so far i have downloaded USI MKS where GC is bundled and that version runs ok, hence i assume it must be some combination of MM Patches from the "Full GC" conflicting with the ones from other mods

Edit: Dropbox output_log.txt:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyzkhpn6m9wfnu8/output_log.txt?dl=0

Edited June 20, 2017 by Jasseji

Jasseji · June 20, 2017

Edit2: well, giving up for today, the Budled version is working but the "Full" doesnt, i have no clue why

If someone with better understanding could take a look at the attached log, it might help someone, i need to play a bit

allista · June 20, 2017

24 minutes ago, Jasseji said:

Edit2: well, giving up for today, the Budled version is working but the "Full" doesnt, i have no clue why

If someone with better understanding could take a look at the attached log, it might help someone, i need to play a bit

Your installation is messed up:

You have the new TCA, but the old AT_Utils, Configurable Containers and GC (which, I suppose, is bundled with the old USI). Old versions cannot work with KSP-1.3. You need to update all these mods to the latest version.

Jasseji · June 20, 2017

1 hour ago, allista said:

Your installation is messed up:

You have the new TCA, but the old AT_Utils, Configurable Containers and GC (which, I suppose, is bundled with the old USI). Old versions cannot work with KSP-1.3. You need to update all these mods to the latest version.

hm, but the bundled AT_Utils+GC work, i thought i removed CC tho, i will see if i can reinstall but as i said, all works fine until i load the Parts from GC

allista · June 20, 2017

Version 1.2.0 for Kerbal Space Program 1.3.0

Released on 2017-06-21

Removed OneTimeResourceConverter. No need for it anymore.
Added planet tabs that group workshops located on the same celestial body to unclutter the workshop list.
Added ability to synchronize construction target among workshops belonging to the same vessel.
Added Warp to end of construction button.
Added velocity dumping on vessel launch to prevent bouncing and explosions of bulky ships and base segments.
Added separate checks and messages for vessel spawning to avoid confusion.
Scenario window is now shown after 3s after a level is loaded.
Fixed calculation of ETA of construction in the case of multiple workshops working concurrently on the same DIY Kit.
Fixed kit tremor after long time warp.
Changed symbol for Switch to workshop button.

Download

Kenchikuka · June 22, 2017

Hi!

First, great mod! =)

Second, sorry in advance, not native english speaker =/

I play in career mode, and now the integration with MKS will take time (without total construction in-situ), but as is GC only advantage is aerodynamics.

I like to make a suggestion for the short time for us mortals users of MKS+GC in career mode:

Decrease cost (maybe also the weight) of the DIY Kit when using MKS, and remove Ore smelter from convert-O-trons (stock refiners).

I think the mod was balanced for stock gaming, you can make Material Kits just mining ore.

With MKS you have to mine 3 different materials, convert all tree and then convert the 3 refined materials in Material kits.

Just from this, for 1 unit of Material kit you have to mine 4,92 units of materials in MKS, against 3,33 units of ore for the smelter (50% more units of material)

4,92 from MKS (MetallicOre + substrate + Minerals) cost 4,840 moneys in game and 3,33 ore cost 0,666 moneys in game (727% more cost)

The only thing that ore is worse is in density (5 times more).

So, my proposal is to change the "ComplexityFactor" in the Globals if the code identify MKS. My unerstand is that this will influence in the cost and mass of the DIY Kit, maybe making, at least, 50 to 70% of the stock cost.

Again, thanks for the mods (using almost all yours and roverdude mods).

allista · June 22, 2017

6 hours ago, Kenchikuka said:

Hi!

First, great mod! =)

Second, sorry in advance, not native english speaker =/

I play in career mode, and now the integration with MKS will take time (without total construction in-situ), but as is GC only advantage is aerodynamics.

I like to make a suggestion for the short time for us mortals users of MKS+GC in career mode:

Decrease cost (maybe also the weight) of the DIY Kit when using MKS, and remove Ore smelter from convert-O-trons (stock refiners).

I think the mod was balanced for stock gaming, you can make Material Kits just mining ore.

With MKS you have to mine 3 different materials, convert all tree and then convert the 3 refined materials in Material kits.

Just from this, for 1 unit of Material kit you have to mine 4,92 units of materials in MKS, against 3,33 units of ore for the smelter (50% more units of material)

4,92 from MKS (MetallicOre + substrate + Minerals) cost 4,840 moneys in game and 3,33 ore cost 0,666 moneys in game (727% more cost)

The only thing that ore is worse is in density (5 times more).

So, my proposal is to change the "ComplexityFactor" in the Globals if the code identify MKS. My unerstand is that this will influence in the cost and mass of the DIY Kit, maybe making, at least, 50 to 70% of the stock cost.

Again, thanks for the mods (using almost all yours and roverdude mods).

Ore smelter is not included if you're using GC bundled with MKS; it is only there in stand-alone version. But I'll try to detect MKS and remove it in case of two separate installs. Thanks.

As for the cost, that's a problem really. No matter how you change ComplexityFactor, there's a simple tradeoff that balances mass and cost:

Kit mass = Ship dry mass * complexity

Required MaterialKits = Ship dry mass - Kit mass = Ship dry mass * (1-complexity)

Kit cost = Ship dry cost - cost of required MaterialKits

So unless the cost of required MaterialKits is greater than the dry cost of the ship, you will always spend exactly the same total amount, no matter the value of ComplexityFactor.

But, I'll think of how to better manage the case when the cost of MaterialKits required to build the ship is greater than the dry cost of the ship in editor. Currently you just pay for MaterialKits. But maybe I should correct complexity instead... So thanks again for your keen observation.

allista · June 22, 2017

@RoverDude, what do you think? Is it better to build offworld spending much more on MaterialKits, but still sending less mass, or to always spend exactly the same amount on a vessel, but bring (!!!) cheap and not-complex parts almost complete inside the kit?

In other words, now:

a fuel tank is built from, say, cheap aluminium on Kerbin, but from expensive MaterialKits offworld.

What @Kenchikuka implicitly suggests:

a fuel tank is shipped inside the kit almost unchanged, and only its worth of MaterialKits is used on site to finish it.

After some consideration, I'm inclined to leave everything as is, because the second option is counterintuitive. Twice.

DStaal · June 22, 2017

I’d make the argument that MaterialKits in any extensive game are essentially free - Once you get a small ISRU setup in place, you can make the rest. (Less than that with MKS, as you can turn spent landing stages into MaterialKits...) I'd balance on the mass, making sure the total mass of the vessel/parts is the same no matter how it's built.

In fact, for a full balance what makes sense to me is to basically price/mass the DIY kit as if it were made entirely of SpecializedParts. (Basically the old OSE recipe.) That would be a bit more complex a calculation - trying to balance both mass and cost at the same time - but is arguably the most realistic.

Kobymaru · June 22, 2017

By the way, how is the in-Situ DIY-Kit creation coming along?

Because I have to admit that once you get the hang of things, there's not a whole lot of difference between shipping a DIY-Kit and just shipping the original vessel. Same Launch, Transfer, Insertion, Landing, ... the mass and size savings are not that attractive.

Making things *from scratch* would make it a lot more attractive. I know it shouldn't come "free", but I have an MKS base sitting and ready to spit out all kinds of MaterialKits/SpecializedParts/Machinery, that would love to start making new ships :wink:

allista · June 22, 2017

7 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

By the way, how is the in-Situ DIY-Kit creation coming along?

Because I have to admit that once you get the hang of things, there's not a whole lot of difference between shipping a DIY-Kit and just shipping the original vessel. Same Launch, Transfer, Insertion, Landing, ... the mass and size savings are not that attractive.

Making things *from scratch* would make it a lot more attractive. I know it shouldn't come "free", but I have an MKS base sitting and ready to spit out all kinds of MaterialKits/SpecializedParts/Machinery, that would love to start making new ships

Well, @RoverDude is currently occupied elsewhere, and I didn't have the chance to discuss it with him properly. I already have the core framework for it, but if I were to finish it of my own accord, we would most likely have to rebuild something for it to be more usable MKS.

Answer me one thing, though: If you can make a new kit on the surface of a planet (in the same manner as a kit now spews a ship), how would you transport it to its construction site? I mean, Ok, I've spawned the box; what then?

Kobymaru · June 22, 2017

11 minutes ago, allista said:

Answer me one thing, though: If you can make a new kit on the surface of a planet (in the same manner as a kit now spews a ship), how would you transport it to its construction site? I mean, Ok, I've spawned the box; what then?

From a GC-only perspective, I'm afraid don't have an answer for you.

From a personal perspective, where I use MKS, KIS and KAS, I would do one of the following:

Take a MKS PAL rover, pick up the box with either the magnetic coupler or with the Claw, drive it where it needs to go and release it there
If the Box is small, use a Kerbal to pick it up, put it in his KIS inventory, walk to the destination and put it back on the ground.
If the Box is big&heavy, drive a rover close, put a few Kerbals close, use one Kerbal to attach it to the rover, drive the rover to the destination and detach the box
Take a rover with big KIS container, drive up to the box, put it in the container, drive to the destination, and unload it there
Just inflate it at the spawn point, and use the vessels own propulsion system to drive to the destination

Admittedly, only the last point is viable if you want to be completely independent from other Mods.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Kobymaru

[1.9-1.10] Global Construction

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Version 1.2.0 for Kerbal Space Program 1.3.0

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