[KIS/KAS/Extraplanetary Launchpads] Survey Stakes

[AntherJebediah]

Installed Extraplanetary Launchpads yesterday, along with KIS and KAS. I landed my first base yesterday with the new parts designed to build a self-expanding base.

I was somewhat unfortunate with the landing location, as the ground isn't flat. The entire area around the base is a gigantic hill near one of the largest craters on the Mun. I designed the initial parts of the base to only use survey stakes for flexible construction sites. However, whenever I create a new site and a new ship, it bounces up and flies away. Any distance from 1m to 20m. 

How can I stabilize the ship when it is constructed and avoid it flying away?

Edited March 1, 2017 by AntherJebediah

[Streetwind]

Have you tried including launch clamps in the blueprint?

Not sure if this works, as I've never done this, but on the KSC launchpad. clamps are the way to keep a craft in position that won't stay still the way you want it to.

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Streetwind

[AntherJebediah]

Just now, Streetwind said:

Have you tried including launch clamps in the blueprint?

Those poles attached to the ship at the launch pad? Don't have those, and some of these initial segments don't have a core either, because I don't have enough rocket parts to build what I need. The clamps would not be released ever and it would present a large problem if one of the clamps lose ground contact. The entire base would explode.

[Zhetaan]

EL is not fond of sloped construction sites.  I'm guessing that your vessel is spawning in such a way that it clips with the ground somewhat, which will cause the colliders to throw it into the sky.

Which stakes are you using?  Are you using origin only, or are you using the bounds and directional stakes as well?

[AntherJebediah]

The settings are set to "Origin".

What happens to whatever I spawn is the bottom-pieces are set to align with a flat ground. So the bottom objects are clipped into the ground, which then results in gravity working and throwing it into the sky.

 

[Zhetaan]

Try taking a stake, setting it to -Y bounds, and putting it upslope from the vessel's spawn point by a metre or two on one of the edges of your construction zone.  You may want to quicksave and run some tests with small, easy-to-make parts in order to get the height right.  That stake sets the lower limit of the bounding box for the vessel, so if you put the bottom of that box above the ground, even by a little bit, it should solve your problem.

[Snark]

1 hour ago, Streetwind said:

Have you tried including launch clamps in the blueprint?

^ This.  I've used launch clamps with EL and they work great.

4 hours ago, AntherJebediah said:

I was somewhat unfortunate with the landing location, as the ground isn't flat. The entire area around the base is a gigantic hill near one of the largest craters on the Mun. I designed the initial parts of the base to only use survey stakes for flexible construction sites. However, whenever I create a new site and a new ship, it bounces up and flies away. Any distance from 1m to 20m. 

^ I had exactly this problem, which is why I used the launch clamps, and they did exactly what I wanted them to.  Solved the problem perfectly.

The reason why stuff flies up in the air is that EL tries to put it right at ground level at a point in the center of the craft, which means the uphill side of the craft is going to be slightly underground, and the game's physics engine interprets this as a "collision" and throws it up in the air.  It's the same reason why, if you build a KAS base with multiple components connected by pipes, they have a tendency to jump up in the air every time you switch to the base.

The solution is to get the ship up off the ground so it's not in contact.  Launch clamps do a great job of this.  For the jumping-KAS-base problem, I solved it by making sure that all my base components were elevated off the ground on landing legs so that the only thing touching the ground is the legs.  I believe this works because legs have some "give" to them and KSP has code in it for detecting the foot's position relative to the ground surface and adjusting accordingly, which stops collisions from happening.

1 hour ago, AntherJebediah said:

Those poles attached to the ship at the launch pad? Don't have those,

Yes, that's what they are.  The vertical trusswork-looking things with the red thingy at the top.

What do you mean by "don't have those"?  They're really low on the tech tree, and it's practically impossible not to have them if you've progressed any distance in your career.  I'm astonished if you managed to get all the way to the Mun without having unlocked them already.

In any case, if for some reason you don't want to use launch clamps, another idea that occurs to me:  try building craft that have landing legs holding them off the ground, such that the legs are already extended at construction time.  Based on my experience with KAS bases, I suspect (but do not know) that this ought to work, as long as you're not on a slope that's so steep that the uphill legs are buried more deeply than their suspension can travel.

 

1 hour ago, AntherJebediah said:

The clamps would not be released ever

Why do you say that?  They work exactly like a decoupler.  Just right-click on the launch clamp and choose "decouple" and bang, there it goes.

1 hour ago, AntherJebediah said:

it would present a large problem if one of the clamps lose ground contact.

That's physically impossible.  They're implemented in a way that they extend down to the ground, however high it happens to be, and are anchored in it.  Can't happen.  (Or at least, I can't imagine it happening... certainly I've never seen it in the game.)

Also, note that you don't have to keep the thing attached to the launch clamps, if you don't want to.  You could just use them as a "construction scaffolding" so that you can build stuff without having it jump in the air.  Build with the clamps, then decouple them and let the newly-constructed thing settle to the ground, then get rid of the clamps.

1 hour ago, AntherJebediah said:

The entire base would explode.

Citation please?

[AntherJebediah]

23 hours ago, Snark said:

Why do you say that?  They work exactly like a decoupler.  Just right-click on the launch clamp and choose "decouple" and bang, there it goes.

Can that be done from outside the ship when the ship has no pilot, remote controlled probe core or any place for pilots to enter? It is single pieces I need without a core, and those fly up and away

[Snark]

3 hours ago, AntherJebediah said:

Can that be done from outside the ship when the ship has no pilot, remote controlled probe core or any place for pilots to enter? It is single pieces I need without a core, and those fly up and away

Pretty sure that you can just walk a kerbal up to it and activate it manually, the same as any other part in KSP.  (I'm not at a KSP computer right now, so can't verify it first-hand, but I believe it should work.)

Besides, why is this a problem?  Just put a probe core on it, if that's an issue for you.  They're tiny and light, it's not like it would cost you significant extra rocket parts.

My own EL solution, when I find that I just need an extra part or two, is that I design a simple "ship" named "Box O Stuff" or whatever, consisting of a KIS container that has whatever bits I need inside it, then I can attach landing clamps or landing legs or the like if I was unlucky enough to build a base on a slope, and want to stop it from bouncing around.