64 bit KSP.

[digger1213]

So, I just decided to try out 64 bit KSP to see if I could get any better FPS with my large (or rather, small but high part count) base on Minmus. I found there was rather little difference in FPS anyway, with an increase of maybe about 3 fps, still below 30. Does 64 bit support CPU multi threading? What effects does 64 bit actually have on the game? From the little bit of reading I have found, it appears that it only effects ships, with each ship getting its own thread.

Anyone actually use 64 bit?

 

(I hope this is the right section for this, the Gameplay Questions area didn't seem right but idk)

 

 

[jhousen]

the only real effect of 64 over 32 is the amount of memory the game can use, 32 bit is limited to about 4GB of memory before you literally run out of addresses

[steve_v]

  On 4/21/2017 at 3:06 AM, digger1213 said:

Does 64 bit support CPU multi threading?

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Exactly as much as 32bit. Which is to say yes, but not where it matters most.

 

  On 4/21/2017 at 3:06 AM, digger1213 said:

What effects does 64 bit actually have on the game?

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A 64bit application (running on a 64bit OS) can address more memory. So you can run more mods

 

  On 4/21/2017 at 3:06 AM, digger1213 said:

From the little bit of reading I have found, it appears that it only effects ships, with each ship getting its own thread.

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It's more complicated, but essentially yes, that's correct.

 

  On 4/21/2017 at 3:06 AM, digger1213 said:

Anyone actually use 64 bit?

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Everyone uses 64bit, there's no reason not to. (well, maybe if you have an ancient machine with <4GB RAM... But good luck getting KSP to run on it at all).

[digger1213]

Okay, thanks for the answers.

I had been using 32 bit the entire time because that's what Steam defaults to. I guess I'll be using 64 bit now so the game can use some more of my 16gb RAM.

Thanks! 

[klesh]

This is a good example of why the steam version should just launch into 64 bit.  

[DoctorDavinci]

  On 4/21/2017 at 3:41 PM, klesh said:

This is a good example of why the steam version should just launch into 64 bit.  

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This is a good example of why people should buy directly from the KSP store and not steam

[klesh]

Why is that? 

[Archgeek]

  On 4/21/2017 at 6:14 AM, steve_v said:

Everyone uses 64bit, there's no reason not to. (well, maybe if you have an ancient machine with <4GB RAM... But good luck getting KSP to run on it at all).

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*Quietly runs the game on a win7 box with exactly 4 gigs*

Admittedly, I do have to close browsers and/or restart a rogue servicehost (300+ megs, really?) to stop my box going swap-crazy on me.

[Alshain]

  On 4/21/2017 at 3:48 PM, DoctorDavinci said:

This is a good example of why people should buy directly from the KSP store and not steam

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No it's not.  Both the Steam and Store version can run 32 or 64 bit.  There is no difference between them.  Had the OP been running the store version, he probably would have still be running the 32-bit version simply because he didn't know the difference until now.

  On 4/21/2017 at 3:41 PM, klesh said:

This is a good example of why the steam version should just launch into 64 bit.  

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You can force it.  Go to the properties and hit Set Launch Options and put the following in the box (change the path if necessary).

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\KSP_x64.exe" -popupwindow %command%

Once you do, either radio button will launch the 64 bit version.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Alshain

[klgraham1013]

The choice to default to a minimal minority over the vast majority still baffles me.

[Red Iron Crown]

  On 4/21/2017 at 5:33 PM, klgraham1013 said:

The choice to default to a minimal minority over the vast majority still baffles me.

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I guess the idea is that the 32 bit version will run on any system while the 64 bit version will not. 64 bit is really only an advantage for modded games, where I suppose one can expect some modicum of technical ability from the end user (at least enough to switch to 64 bit).

[LordFerret]

  On 4/21/2017 at 5:20 PM, Alshain said:

No it's not.

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Yes, it is. Steam needs to go away. Steam is way too intrusive into ones system, it has been for a long time. It was all thanks to Steam that tens of thousands of players of Half-Life and it's various mods, like DoD, found their games abruptly stop working one year (2004?) - Steam's enforcement of a specific DirectX version, whether or not your game/mod used it. People were forced to either buy a new computer or do without. Some like to call that progress. I'm sure other games were affected by this move of theirs as well. I'm sure somewhere in a buried PC Gamer magazine there's an article about the outrage and controversy over this as well.

I have a serious beef with Steam about this. Steam was one of the major factors of the MammJamma DoD Gaming Community dissolving (MammaJamma.org, I still hold the domain**). We had several game servers running, of which I owned one (OldSkool). I also had a serious vested interest in the forums, I owned its PsychoStats host. We were GeoRanked (globally) the #1 DoD Avalanche server for 4 years straight. Quite an accomplishment. It's a very bitter pill..... can you tell?

 

** For those of you who done the search on Google; No, I am not Bill McGill. Bill is however a friend of mine.

Edited April 21, 2017 by LordFerret

[Alshain]

  On 4/21/2017 at 6:15 PM, LordFerret said:

Yes, it is. [snipped the Straw Man argument because it's off topic and has nothing to do with what I said]

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So, why is having the option for both 32 bit and 64 bit a reason to buy from the KSP store instead of Steam?

 

[klgraham1013]

  On 4/21/2017 at 7:57 PM, Alshain said:

So, why is having the option for both 32 bit and 64 bit a reason to buy from the KSP store instead of Steam?

 

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The KSP store allows you to download either 32 or 64 bit.  Thus, if you download the 64 bit version, the exe automatically launches 64 bit.  No risk of a 32 bit version.

[Alshain]

  On 4/21/2017 at 10:36 PM, klgraham1013 said:

The KSP store allows you to download either 32 or 64 bit.  Thus, if you download the 64 bit version, the exe automatically launches 64 bit.  No risk of a 32 bit version.

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That doesn't really explain why it's better though.  If they download the 32 bit version they will be playing the 32 bit version.  Likewise in Steam if you select the 32-bit version, you will be playing the 32-bit version.  It's not like you aren't aware that you are running 32-bit, you are prompted when you start the game.  The OP chose to run the 32-bit version and likely would have chosen to download the 32-bit version from the store.

[klgraham1013]

  On 4/21/2017 at 11:27 PM, Alshain said:

That doesn't really explain why it's better though.  If they download the 32 bit version they will be playing the 32 bit version.  Likewise in Steam if you select the 32-bit version, you will be playing the 32-bit version.  It's not like you aren't aware that you are running 32-bit, you are prompted when you start the game.  The OP chose to run the 32-bit version and likely would have chosen to download the 32-bit version from the store.

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Not better.  Just slightly more convenient. 

[Alshain]

  On 4/21/2017 at 11:28 PM, klgraham1013 said:

Not better.  Just slightly more convenient. 

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How is it more convenient?  I have both versions at my disposal with one download.  You have to download twice, and again for each update to do the same.

[klgraham1013]

  On 4/21/2017 at 11:30 PM, Alshain said:

How is it more convenient?  I have both versions at my disposal with one download.  You have to download twice, and again for each update to do the same.

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Slightly more.  I'm not saying it's world hunger or anything.

[Alshain]

  On 4/22/2017 at 12:33 AM, klgraham1013 said:

Slightly more.  I'm not saying it's world hunger or anything.

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Slightly less.

[jros83]

  On 4/21/2017 at 3:48 PM, DoctorDavinci said:

This is a good example of why people should buy directly from the KSP store and not steam

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That's cute.

Some of us here bought directly from the KSP store YEARS AND YEARS ago, and freely converted over to Steam when 1.0 hit. So nice try but...

  On 4/21/2017 at 6:15 PM, LordFerret said:

Yes, it is. Steam needs to go away. Steam is way too intrusive into ones system, [goes on to ramble about horrible Steam]

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So is your point here that there's no good reason to have KSP on Steam, or are you simply anti-Steam?

[steve_v]

Dunno 'bout ferret, but I for one hate Steam with a passion.
And it hasn't even done anything particularly horrible to me.

Steam is just pointless, intrusive, resource consuming, DRM bundling, login requiring, surprise update springing, advertising ridden middleware. Why would you want such a thing?

  On 4/21/2017 at 5:15 PM, Archgeek said:

*Quietly runs the game on a win7 box with exactly 4 gigs*

Admittedly, I do have to close browsers and/or restart a rogue servicehost (300+ megs, really?) to stop my box going swap-crazy on me.

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Well, yeah. I did say <4GB.
Even if you have exactly 4GB, running a 32bit OS will rob you of some ram, and if you're running a 64bit OS, you might as well run 64bit KSP.

[Lelitu]

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:19 AM, steve_v said:

Dunno 'bout ferret, but I for one hate Steam with a passion.
And it hasn't even done anything particularly horrible to me.

Steam is just pointless, intrusive, resource consuming, DRM bundling, login requiring, surprise update springing, advertising ridden middleware. Why would you want such a thing?

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Until publishers start offering games on GOG at release, steam is the *least* intrusive, annoying and unpleasant option available. Further, steam doesn't require DRM at all, that would be the publishers insisting that all their titles have DRM regardless of venue.

I've never had any major issues with it, except the autoupdate of KSP breaking all my mods once.. It's also very convenient being able to play my games wherever I happen to be, without having to cart around dozens of disks (if I even have a disk reader of any kind available).

Basically, as much as it does have some downsides, mostly because it allows DRM bundling and doesn't allow skipping updates, it's still the best option available for a great many games.

Steam is actually the reason why I can skip the optical drive from any systems I build nowdays, since everything is available by digital download.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Lelitu
added some bits.

[Alshain]

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:19 AM, steve_v said:

Dunno 'bout ferret, but I for one hate Steam with a passion.
And it hasn't even done anything particularly horrible to me.

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You seem to be misinformed on a lot of things.  I'm not sure where you get your information but let me try to help you out there...

  23 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Steam is just pointless

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That one is opinion.  Can't really do anything bout that.  But I find it a lot better than managing 1000 different logins for different digital services across the web.

  23 minutes ago, steve_v said:

intrusive

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Not really.  It sits on the tray till you want it, it can be closed easy enough.

  23 minutes ago, steve_v said:

resource consuming,

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It consumes less than your web browser.

  23 minutes ago, steve_v said:

DRM bundling

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Not Steam, that's the game publisher, and it would be the same no matter where you bought it.

  23 minutes ago, steve_v said:

login requiring

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Yes, it does require a login.  So does every other digital service.  You can have it remember your account.

 

  23 minutes ago, steve_v said:

surprise update springing

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Again, that is the developers pushing updates, but you can turn that off.

 

  23 minutes ago, steve_v said:

advertising ridden

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The only advertising is on the store page. (Admittedly there was some a long time ago that popped up on your screen, but they got enough complaints and got rid of it)

 

  23 minutes ago, steve_v said:

middleware.

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Distribution service.

  23 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Why would you want such a thing?

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Because it's convenient to keep your collection of games in one place with one easy login and you can download it again and again forever from incredibly fast never congested servers.

Meanwhile the KSP store has a separate login for one game, frequently over-burdened servers when a patch is released, and a broken launcher/downloader.  Why would you want such a thing?

[Alshain]

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:29 AM, Lelitu said:

I've never had any major issues with it, except the autoupdate of KSP breaking all my mods once.. It's also very convenient being able to play my games wherever I happen to be, without having to cart around dozens of disks (if I even have a disk reader of any kind available).

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In case you weren't aware, KSP has no DRM whatsoever, including the requirement that Steam be running that most Steam games have.  This means you can copy your game folder out of the Steam directories and it won't be affected by updates, and you can still play it and keep multiple copies of the game.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Alshain

[steve_v]

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:53 AM, Alshain said:

Not really.  It sits on the tray till you want it, it can be closed easy enough.

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Unless you want to play a game...
 

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:53 AM, Alshain said:

It consumes less than your web browser.

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So what? That's still resources used that have no bearing on the task at hand.
 

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:53 AM, Alshain said:

Not Steam, that's the game publisher, and it would be the same no matter where you bought it.

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When Steam clearly states the DRM status of the products it sells and allows all DRM-free titles to run without Steam open, I may reconsider.
Aside, DRM of any kind is pretty much a guaranteed no-buy for me. If anything, it encourages piracy.
 

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:53 AM, Alshain said:

Yes, it does require a login.

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Login to download is fine. Login to use local content is not.
 

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:53 AM, Alshain said:

Again, that is the developers pushing updates, but you can turn that off.

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Can I skip or roll-back updates too? Can I go back 3 revisions, or to the initial release? What if I want to patch a copy I have squirreled away somewhere else? Just give me the patches so I can do what I want with them.

 

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:53 AM, Alshain said:

The only advertising is on the store page. (Admittedly there was some a long time ago that popped up on your screen, but they got enough complaints and got rid of it)

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Any advertising, and popup advertising in particular, is too much advertising. I already bought stuff from you, stop harassing me.
 

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:53 AM, Alshain said:

Because it's convenient to keep your collection of games in one place with one easy login and you can download it again and again forever from incredibly fast never congested servers.

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I have a perfectly good storage array that could be classified as "all in one place". Why would I want to download things "again and again" anyway?
If I want to take a copy with me, I use a flash device... Oh, wait, I'd also need an internet connection for a pointless Steam login.
 

  On 4/22/2017 at 6:53 AM, Alshain said:

Meanwhile the KSP store has a separate login for one game, frequently over-burdened servers when a patch is released, and a broken launcher/downloader.

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The brokenness of SQUADs updater is another matter, and entirely unrelated to Steam.
What's unfortunate is that many developers seem to see the existence of Steam as an excuse for not providing basic support services themselves.