Starting a new project and need advice

[crimsonknight3]

I know it's over-ambitious considering i've never made any models or had much graphics program use but i want to make a scaled down and simplified version of both daedlus from the Stargate-SG1/Atlantis series and the same for Destiny from Stargate universe.

Would someone possibly tell me what programs i need (that are user friendly) and which are free, as this is a hobby and i don't have money to throw away. I'll try going into it and learn as i go and if i have any future questions ill post here but i really need to know what program to get me started, which also makes scaling the model specifically for this game, easier. Thank you in advance to all who can help

[MrPwner]

I'm with you, I'm currently working on my first mod pack, which is my first time modelling, ever.

I use blender, there is a great tutorial on here somewhere that describes in detail what you need to do to make a model work in ksp.

For texturing we use GIMP, both are free.

You'll need to read some tutorials on blender, though. Especially knowing the keyboard shortcuts can save tons of time.

EDIT: Also, my project is very ambitious too

[crimsonknight3]

Thank you, ive been trying with 3ds max 9 which is just a nightmare and i can only get but the most simple shapes and can transform them, ive also tried using google sketch up, exporting it to .dae then using unity with the ksp tools but thats a nightmare so maybe blender may be inbetween It would be nice to see a start to finish tutorial on creating ksp parts going from start to finish. All ive really seen on the wiki is a tutorial about how to create a part with file structure and animation through unity. Ill let you know how i get on with blender tomorrow

[MrPwner]

Yes, I haven't got the parttools figured out yet either, but one step at a time, right?

[crimsonknight3]

Yes one step at a time, starting in the deep end haha I had a look at the project you are working on, it looks pretty good so far Maybe i can learn a lot from you haha My plan at the minute is to do a provisional design of all the parts, then once done i want to try and pull other people in to help with the stuff i cant do myself. Namely i want a gui to control weapon systems among other things, i need someone to do hotkeys to switch engines, i want to incorporate the fixed camera mod into each turret so they can be controlled manually and i need someone to help me design a way to get the thing into orbit as this ship will only be intended from the start for space flight only... No landing lol Also as a secondary project i want to add 2 of destiny's shuttles to the ship(Which will be able to land). I already have a perfect way of docking in my head but i need someone to help me design and animate those, aswell i need someone to help me take something similar to the laser mod, and create one that fires bursts of 'laser' instead of a continuous beam, and a very conceptual idea, is to be able to re-fuel by being under a certain AP + PE orbiting the sun, though that may mean that rather than using the games fuel, i may have to get someone to create a fuel system similar to the solar panels + battery + ion engine system only on a bigger scale, so lots and lots but first if i get the provisional design done then other people are more likely to join the project.

Okay one thing i am having a lot of annoyance and fighting with is scaling. Blender doesn't seem to do much in the way of telling me what dimensions an object, namely a cube is, nor can i find an easy menu that will allow me to create a shape using set dimesions. For instance i decided to start on the turret pieces first as they are relatively simple. I want to start with a cube x:2m y:2m z:1m. Then bevel the top 0.25cm into the cube by 0.25cm then i have a nice base for the turret to be added ontop. I can do everything apart from starting the cube at that size. Thanks in advance

Edited August 5, 2012 by crimsonknight3

[MrPwner]

Well in blender, to see dimensions , press N in the 3D view when in object mode. It will open a menu on the side of the 3D view. In that menu, under Transform are the basic properties like location, rotation, scale and dimensions. Changing the dimensions also changes the scale, which can prevent you from UV unwrapping your mesh.

You can scale by a certain amount by pressing S (enter scale mode), the axis along which you want to scale, how much you want to scale it. (if you want to scale along every axis but one, use shift + x, y or z)

So in your case, you'd type in the 3D view (just type it) S Z 0.5.

If you then go back to object mode and check the scale and dimensions, you'd see that the dimensions are now x:2 y:2 z:1 while the scale is still 1 on all dimensions.

[crimsonknight3]

Awesome thank you! I've downloaded a 3d model of destiny in google sketchup which would be a good point of reference only the ship is about 1500 metres long with tons of separate components so moving the view around it on my laptop is nigh impossible lol

I've gone through all the tutorials but some of them seem to work differently, like the guy selecting multiple edges or verts, on mine sometimes if i try and select a few by holding shift and right clicking each time, the last one i selected gets deselected if i use middle mouse button to look around or even click anything to transform etc.

Also is it possible to take a model that has been compiled for ksp, to uncompile it back into blender? That way i can study how the turret movement is done with the laser mod and use that to create the movement needed for my turret?

[MrPwner]

You can import .dae's into blender. But I think the laser mod handled its rotation in a plugin.

Also with blender tutorials, check for which version it is. After 2.6 apparently a lot was modified. Some stuff from pre 2.6x versions may still apply, but are found somewhere else in the GUI. A lot of blender tutorial material is still pre 2.6.

[crimsonknight3]

Ahh that will maybe be why then. If its handled with a plugin then ill have to get someone onboard to help with that... Maybe ill design the turret itself now and build a turret mount into each 'wing' of the ship. So far ive broken the destiny up (in my mind) into Nose, main body 1 & 2, left wing, right wing, command centre (with Advanced sas incorporated somewhere), (engines will just be 2 large pieces with the same blue effect of destiny's when running despite the fact the ship technically has 36 engines), left engine, right engine, Rcs node, turret, main weapon and a dock or something for support whilst it spawns on the runway, ive been trying to think of a way to get it into orbit and all i can think of is 3 high power engines that will detach when orbit is achieved either that or somehow making something small enough with enough thrust to get it into orbit, that can then be toggled off and main engines toggled on (like the nostromo mod which i LOVE and which made me want to start this project)... Still thinking, i really should find some stargate fans on this forum haha

[crimsonknight3]

Hey, just wanted to know what you think. I've tried downscaling it a little whilst keeping similar proportions, i knew something had to give so i lowered the distance between barrels, what do you think for my first attempt making a model?

My model:

The reference model i used in google sketchup:

[crimsonknight3]

Ive done some further work and have a question. In object and edit mode the top barrel seems fine but when i render it goes a bit.... Wrong lol It goes a bit wrong with both smooth and flat surfaces however its more noticable with smooth surfaces which is the picture i used. What do you think?

[Lord Wasteland]

Eh... can you make weapons for KSP, such as turrets?

[MrPwner]

With blender, use the edge split modifier.

In the right screen, with the object selected, under the list of objects is a row of icons. Click the wrench > Add modifier > Edge split (under generate). Mess with the parameters if you like, then click apply.

This fixed similar issues for me.

[crimsonknight3]

Eh... can you make weapons for KSP, such as turrets?

Yes and no lol Someone has a mod that uses a laser (which i assume exudes HEAT to destroy stuff) whereas with my turret im looking to do the same except with bursts of heat instead of a constant beam and yes there is defo movable turrets lol

Here's a link to that mod:

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/6014-PLUGIN-PART-0-14-SUNBEAM-Laser-2-1?highlight=sunbeam

And thank you MrPwner, ill give that a go now before i head out for my bday dinner/my gf's nans bday dinner/my gf's sisters bday dinner/my gf's bday dinner........... lmao all our bdays are within 2 weeks

[crimsonknight3]

Okay, i tried edge split modifier and it made no noticable difference in object mode and when i render the same distortion on the top cannon is present. Will keep playing around. I think it may be because i extruded up the cannon the ridge then extruded it back down again and didnt notice any difference.

[MrPwner]

Be careful with extrusions, cancelling the movement of an extrusion doesn't remove the extra vertices created for the extrusion. You can remove double vertices by clicking the remove doubles button in edit mode in the left side menu.

I don't know what else you could do, as I'm still very much a blender noob

[crimsonknight3]

Be careful with extrusions, cancelling the movement of an extrusion doesn't remove the extra vertices created for the extrusion. You can remove double vertices by clicking the remove doubles button in edit mode in the left side menu.

I don't know what else you could do, as I'm still very much a blender noob

Okay ill keep that in mind. I didn't get anything done today really, i was too busy trying to beat the kerbal olympics speed record under 5km. I came close but gave up when i couldnt get a decent balance between speed and control. Will let you know how it goes tomorrow. If i can get more people on board to help with the mod i may start an official channel for the destiny add-on

This is what i am going to recreate

[crimsonknight3]

Oh just as i side note, i just popped into blender and removed duplicates and that fixed the graphical errors i've been having, thanks a bunch for that piece of advice!! I know blender is great but it's trying to learn what half the options does thats the problem haha G'night!

[MrPwner]

Nice! Glad to help. If you need more advice or something, just ask.

[crimsonknight3]

I actually could use a little advice. I'm really having issues (in my mind) trying to figure out what scale to work with here, you can see the ship, what scale would fit for a runway launch? Really the main issue is nose to back and wing to wing, i really dont want to have to scale down the rear turret and main weapon too much otherwise it will start looking a bit weird, i dont want it to look all turret but at the same time i dont want the turrets to end up tiny and insignificant either. Like to nostromo i dont expect that in-game it will be able to fit 'entirely' when being assembled but im sure it will be mostly visible so what limits am i looking at

[MrPwner]

I'm not a stargate fan, so I don't know how big it really is.

But IIRC the limit for length, width and height of a part is 2km

I think the runway is about 30m wide, and the SPH is pretty far from the runway. Also, you can just make smaller collision models so that even when it visible collides with something, it won't detect it physically.

And you don't really have to worry about the scale when modelling, you can adjust the scale of everything by playing with the scale or rescaleFactor parameters in the part.cfg file (IIRC only rescaleFactor scales the node positions with it).

You could also release several scaled versions so people can choose what scale they think would suit them best. Just a suggestion.

[Kreuzung]

Well, parts can probably have any size, but remember that they'll only be loaded if you come in a 2.5km range of them, so you might want them to have a size that prevents strange errors with that border (like you come in, part is loaded, is so large that you're in it's collider, insta-BOOM).

Also remember that the assembly buildings have a limited size.

[crimsonknight3]

Its the assembly building bit that might be the problem but it's entirely possible to put together the ship using text rather than ingame right? Editing a .craft file manually? but im too far away from that to even comprehend yet. I've had an idea that i wanted to pass by you guys. As getting the ship into orbit will be a nightmare as the ship was never intended for atmospheric flight i had an idea i hope is plausible. Model a very large 'space dock' then squish it up real small (dock will be almost entirely thin pylons as it were) Then animate it stretching back out to full size. Plop the shrunk part on a rocket and up into orbit then hit a key and it extends out into a full dock, then incoporating (if i get permission of course) with the orbitbal construction mod, which has a part with the ability to 'jump' straight into orbit near the station, which in my case is the activated space dock, spawn destiny on the runway, activate the jump drive in destiny's gui (will try and make it a single use part to save people using it to get out of tricky situations) and poof, it spawns inside the space dock (with obviously a fair amount of extra space to prevent collisions. Plausible??

[MrPwner]

Sounds complicated, but possible.

But if I were you I'd focus on the modelling and texturing for now

[crimsonknight3]

Thats exactly my plan, though with real life things going on im not getting much chance to do any modelling at the moment, probably wont be able to get any more done until thursday coming