Modded Engine has No Thrust in KSP 1.2.2

[Peter Balholm]

I have built my own engines for KSP by the usual methods; Blender, Unity, and then modifying a .cfg file to fit my specific engine. The engines work just great in KSP 1.1.3. However, when I install them in KSP 1.2.2, they have no thrust. They use fuel, produce smoke, and make noise; they just do not have any thrust on the pad and no thrust is computed on the stats in the VAB. I am using a completely stock install of 1.2.2, except for the engines, which are in their folder under GameData. Here are two photos of the same part in action in both versions.

Here is my .cfg file:

PART
{
name = hybridFirstStage
module = Part
author = Peter Balholm, after Kartoffelkuchen
mesh = model.mu
rescaleFactor = 0.7
node_stack_top = 0.0, 33.42, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -4.4, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 1
TechRequired = start
entryCost = 0
cost = 2000
category = Engine
subcategory = 0
title = Hybrid First Stage Engine
manufacturer = Sarawak Tank Company
description = A hybrid rocket engine which can be clustered to build the first stage of the Cassandra rocket. The oxidizer tank is bamboo plywood and holds nitrous oxide pressurized with gaseous oxygen. The fuel is paraffin wax and powdered aluminum. The sea-level nozzle made of Baekelite reinforced with asbestos fiber.

// attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
attachRules = 1,1,1,1,0

// --- standard part parameters ---
mass = 3.33
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.2
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 7
breakingForce = 200
breakingTorque = 200
maxTemp = 3600
RESOURCE
{
 name = LiquidFuel
 amount = 6012
 maxAmount = 6012
}

RESOURCE
{
 name = Oxidizer
 amount = 24048
 maxAmount = 24048
}
EFFECTS
{
  running_closed
  {
    AUDIO
    {
      channel = Ship
      clip = sound_rocket_hard
      volume = 0.0 0.0
      volume = 1.0 1.0
      pitch = 0.0 0.2
      pitch = 1.0 1.0
      loop = true
    }
    PREFAB_PARTICLE
    {
      prefabName = fx_smokeTrail_veryLarge
      transformName = smokePoint
      emission = 0.0 0.0
      emission = 0.05 0.0
      emission = 0.075 0.25
      emission = 1.0 1.25
      speed = 0.0 0.25
      speed = 1.0 1.0
      localOffset = 0, 0, 1
    }
     MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE
        {
          modelName = Squad/FX/ksX_Exhaust
          transformName = thrustTransform
          emission = 0.0 0.0
          emission = 0.05 0.0
          emission = 0.075 0.25
          emission = 1.0 1.25
          speed = 0.0 0.5
          speed = 1.0 1.2
        }
  }
  engage
  {
    AUDIO
    {
      channel = Ship
      clip = sound_vent_soft
      volume = 1.0
      pitch = 2.0
      loop = false
    }
  }
  flameout
  {
    PREFAB_PARTICLE
    {
      prefabName = fx_exhaustSparks_flameout_2
      transformName = smokePoint
      oneShot = true
    }
    AUDIO
    {
      channel = Ship
      clip = sound_explosion_low
      volume = 1.0
      pitch = 2.0
      loop = false
    }
  }
}

MODULE
{
    name = ModuleEnginesFX
    thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
    engineID = AJ-26-62
    runningEffectName = running_closed
    exhaustDamage = True
    ignitionThreshold = 0.1
    minThrust = 0
    maxThrust = 924
    useEngineResponseTime = False
    engineAccelerationSpeed = 20
    heatProduction = 400
    fxOffset = 0, 0, 1.5
    PROPELLANT
    {
        name = LiquidFuel
            ratio = 0.4
        DrawGauge = True
    }
    PROPELLANT
    {
        name = Oxidizer
        ratio = 1.6
    }
    atmosphereCurve
     {
        key = 0 345
       key = 1 268
     }
    
}

MODULE
{
    name = ModuleGimbal
    gimbalTransformName = AJ-62_Engine_Nozzle
    gimbalRange = 4
}

MODULE
{
      name = ModuleAnimateHeat
      ThermalAnim = --None--
}

MODULE
{
    name = ModuleAlternator    
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = ElectricCharge
        rate = 8.0
    }
}
RESOURCE
{
    name = ElectricCharge
    amount = 0
    maxAmount = 0
      isTweakable = false
    hideFlow = true
}
}

 

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

I suspect you may have neglected to add a thrust transform to your model  in unity  or your thrust transform is blocked by a collider

[Peter Balholm]

I have a thrust transform on my model. Is it a child of the "Game Object" in the picture you posted? (The hierarchy still confuses me.) If it helps to narrow down the possibilities, my engine works in 1.1.3. So I feel that it should have everything there. There must just be some slight glitch. Thanks!

[Peter Balholm]

Okay, I just stripped my install of KSP 1.1.3 down to nothing but Squad parts and my custom engines. This makes it a direct comparison with my 1.2.2 install. Now, the two exhibit the same behavior! Neither works. Here is a picture, after my rocket tipped over. Perhaps it had a tiny bit of thrust; I can't tell. But it certainly didn't have enough even to scoot it sideways.

So, my engines do not work in either unmodded install. They work in modded 1.1.3, but not modded 1.2.2. (My mods, by the way, run heavily toward RO and RSS.) I'm puzzled. Any thoughts?

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

It can either be a child or grandchild of the gameobject, depends really on the part , simple parts can be like this or the transforms can be several generations further down,

As long as the name is right and there are no colliders blocking the thrust then by rights, given the right cfg it should work

Just one thing from looking at your cfg

MODULE
{
      name = ModuleAnimateHeat
      ThermalAnim = --None--
} 

Does that literally mean you've called the animation None or you have none ? If it's the latter,  it's better to not put, or comment out a module if you don't use it , rather than trying to turn it off,  in that case I've a feeling that the game is looking for and animation called --None--  though whether that is enough to kill the engine I cant empirically say without trying it out myself.

[Peter Balholm]

I removed the animation module. Thanks. It still doesn't work. The other symptom I have noticed is that as soon as the vessel is loaded on the launchpad, the exhaust and engine noise are going. before I have throttled up or staged. And then, when I do stage, there is the clunk noise of the engine starting, but no thrust. Does that help?

[sebi.zzr]

1 hour ago, Peter Balholm said:

There must just be some slight glitch.

I guess you have misspelled "thrustTransform",double check the spelling,because it's case sensitive.
It would be helpful if you could show your model in blender with all transforms showing.You can also upload your model if not too much trouble.

[Peter Balholm]

Here is a picture of the second-stage engine. I can't find the file for the first stage right now. They act the same, I believe. By the "model" you mean this Unity file, right? How do I upload it? Can you point me toward instructions?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Peter Balholm
Picture didn't show at first.

[sebi.zzr]

2 hours ago, Peter Balholm said:

Here is a picture of the second-stage engine. I can't find the file for the first stage right now. They act the same, I believe. By the "model" you mean this Unity file, right? How do I upload it? Can you point me toward instructions?

 

Not the unity file,just the *.mu or the whole part(.mu+texture).You can upload it where you want,dropbox,google drive... and share the link.

p.s.:there is no picture

Edited May 16, 2017 by sebi.zzr

[Peter Balholm]

Okay, first, if I paste a picture into the comment box, it displays nicely, but then disappears when I actually post. Back to the Imgur technique, I guess. Here is a link to the .mu file for my engine. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByFshSPbart8TVF2cGxncXUxVGs

[sebi.zzr]

9 hours ago, Peter Balholm said:

Here is a link to the .mu file for my engine.

You need to make that public for us to see.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Hi, just a thought , have you tried the simplest engine cfg possible , one of the stock ModuleEngine types instead?  Basic fx ,no gimbal , no smokepoint ,  dead simple.     As that would rule out any issues with the FX not being found, which from one of your latest posts. in which you mention the engine is running as soon as it's launched , seems possible, though even in that situation ( as most engine modders have been here at some time)  the engine has produced thrust

[Peter Balholm]

9 hours ago, sebi.zzr said:

You need to make that public for us to see.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByFshSPbart8TVF2cGxncXUxVGs/view?usp=sharing

I believe this should do it. Sorry about the delay. This is learning curve with more than just KSP!

[Peter Balholm]

2 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Hi, just a thought , have you tried the simplest engine cfg possible , one of the stock ModuleEngine types instead?  Basic fx ,no gimbal , no smokepoint ,  dead simple.     As that would rule out any issues with the FX not being found, which from one of your latest posts. in which you mention the engine is running as soon as it's launched , seems possible, though even in that situation ( as most engine modders have been here at some time)  the engine has produced thrust

I have tried modifying my .cfg from the mainsail engine. I have removed the fairing module, etc. The only part I have added is propellant. This is a hybrid rocket, and so contains its own propellant, like an SRB does, but is throttleable. Like my other version, it still produces no thrust. However, it does not display the flame effect or sound until it is staged. Here is the .cfg file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByFshSPbart8Y29WeHg1NWhGT1E/view?usp=sharing

[sebi.zzr]

@Peter Balholm,well,i had my laugh when i tested this .Basically your problem is,because of all the fuel you added,there is not enough TWR only 0.61(SLT 0.48).Install MechJeb or Engineer Redux so you can balance your engine,but you do need more thrust.
Also,if you want to have gimbal then you need to use "thrustTransform" instead "AJ-62_Engine_Nozzle":

MODULE
 {
     name = ModuleGimbal
     gimbalTransformName = thrustTransform
     gimbalRange = 4
 }

  

[Peter Balholm]

Thanks to your advice, it got off the ground! Hooray! More specifics later.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

16 hours ago, sebi.zzr said:

not enough TWR only 0.61

One of those definite funny's,  after a while bug hunting mods ,you sort of get into the habit of expecting that kind of stuff to not be relevant, that'll teach me

16 hours ago, Peter Balholm said:

it got off the ground

congrats

[Peter Balholm]

I reduced the fuel load and now it works, in the basically unmodded versions. It does not work yet in the heavily modded RO/RSS 1.2.2. In this, it has no thrust (exactly zero) and does not even register as an engine on the staging diagram. This was my original problem, of course, and it was what led me to not suspect that the problem in the unmodded versions was different, since it acted much the same. Only Kerbal Engineer could show the difference. So, do you have any thoughts on what could be disabling my engines in the modded version? I have tried removing RealFuels, but that did no help. I will be gradually reinstalling mods and seeing what makes a difference.

[Peter Balholm]

After a lot of deleting and reinstalling mods in various combinations, I have found that the fundamental problem is caused by Realism Overhaul. Without it, the engines work great, even in the modded version. I don't strictly need RO, but would like to figure out how to make my engines compatible. I haven't found anything on the forums right off. Any suggestions? Thank you so much for all your help!

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

1 hour ago, Peter Balholm said:

thoughts

Hi, so only partly a success, I dont use the RSS RO etc, but i see no reason it refuses to work in install X and not install Y , unless you have a mod that bizarrely kills the engine module in certain circumstances.  That said   this whole process would be a lot easier i think if you could make a little modlet of your faulty engine ( the whole in game folder)  Zipped up and let us have a look at it properly first hand, usually it's a lot quicker than guessing

Cheers

 

 

[Peter Balholm]

2 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

you could make a little modlet of your faulty engine ( the whole in game folder)  Zipped up and let us have a look at it properly first hand, usually it's a lot quicker than guessing

Here is my folder from inside GameData. Perhaps the parts would all work, but the "FirstStageEngine" is the one I am working with right now. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByFshSPbart8cTlUZ0s0aHJUTWs/view?usp=sharing

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Hi quick test of the first stage engine, as supplied,   no RF RO etc but heavily modded install , and  the engine lifted a pod etc to space with a twr of 1.72.  . Now I'm no rocket scientist but I'd expect the TWR to be higher for a first stage especially with a bare bones spacecraft perched on top . (could be wrong  ofc)    Though it does work  which leads me to conclude that there is indeed something  in that particular install  messing with your engine , that is not directly the fault of the engine 

( btw can't recall the last time previously I put a pod in space..0.24 maybe )

39 minutes ago, Peter Balholm said:

"FirstStageEngine"

 

[Peter Balholm]

6 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

I'd expect the TWR to be higher for a first stage especially with a bare bones spacecraft perched on top .

The specs for this engine are all messed up. It was designed to work with Realism Overhaul, and it does work well in previous versions. However, RO uses different units for thrust, fuel volume, etc., and so without RO, it doesn't make sense. That is why its TWR was so low it couldn't lift off at all. I have just arbitrarily decreased the fuel load to make it lift off, but I have not attempted to get it exact an realistic. BTW, this is a hybrid rocket based roughly on this design:

In my alternative storyline, it is used for a Mars mission in 1917. I have a story plotted with hundreds of characters, only two of whom are fictional.