[0.20] RemoteTech: Relay Network – V 0.5.0.1

[Camacha]

Along the same train of thought I have been considering multiple dish setups to simulate bigger dishes, just like they do in real life. I am not sure I am a big fan of this, but it is something that could be considered. One could percieve a tracking station on earth using multiple dishes to recieve or send a faint signal (just like they do with radio telescopes), or maybe some last ditch effort of a probe to reestablish contact with Kerbin or a command centre, maybe even programming the probe to display this behavior when contact is lost (like the deploying-antennae-behavior mentioned before).

[JDP]

Is there any advantage of the smaller 'fixed' dish over the small deployable one? The both have the same max range (50Mm I think) but the fixed dish is pretty heafty to fit to things.

So...could/should the fixed dish be set to 50 billion meters instead? At the minute theres a huge jump from the Mm range to Gm and something in the Bm(?) range bracket could maybe plug a hole.

There is a difference, but only when it comes to structural integrity. the non-animated dishes can withstand much higher airflow than the animated ones. Just try launching with the animated dishes deployed and see what happens. Anyway I'm thinking of fazing out pretty much all the old dishes in favor of new animated target-tracking dishes. The first dish to fall will be the old remnant of the probodobodyne dish. I'm currently working on a neat little folding and tracking dish to replace it.

Regarding the range gap, it's there for a reason, since intermediate dish ranges would be mostly useless. the low range class has a range that can just reach minmus, the mid range class has a range that can just reach duna and eve and the long range can reach pretty much any planet within the solar system. There would be room for a class intermediate between mid and long, but doing so might complicate gameplay a little too much.

[Kethevin]

Hello, I have a couple new questions. First off though, thank you for your assistance with setting up my satellites, the advice in this thread was very helpful.

Okay, questions:

1) Does it matter where on the craft the satellite dish is attached? I'm having an issue with some satellites I sent to Mun. Their dishes are activated and targeting satellites near Kerbal that are targeting them back, but they are out of contact. I'm wondering if the craft is not recognizing the dish. Basically, I'm using the probe sized ASAS module at the top and have two satellite dishes attached on the corners.

A previous satellite I used worked fine but on that one the satellite dish was attached along the side of the craft. (The first pic shows the satellite I'm having problems with. The second shows the one that works fine)

2) I'm learning how to program the flight computer for the craft to make various maneuvers. This isn't really a RemoteTech question, just a general one. I never know exactly how long to schedule the burn. When I set up the maneuver node, it gives me the HH:MM:SS of when the burn should take place, but often says NA on the time. Is there a table or a trick you all know for this sort of thing?

Thanks again for your time.

EDIT: Not sure why the pic's aren't showing. The direct links are 1) http://imgur.com/dajGJG3 and 2) http://imgur.com/Zqwgq05

Edited May 21, 2013 by Kethevin

[MaHuJa]

2) If you click the "duration" label, it'll turn from time to dV or m/s, which the node will show in various places.

1) If

- the dishes are attached (as in, part of the ship),

- powered,

- there's a RT "core" unit (like the rc antenna or the 1m 2m remote control/command pieces),

- there's nothing (planet/moon) between, and

- they're aimed (that remotetech dialog lets you set where the dish is communicating with - it can be individual ships or more general regions) at each other,

they should communicate.

Did I miss anything?

[King Jareth]

There is a difference, but only when it comes to structural integrity. the non-animated dishes can withstand much higher airflow than the animated ones. Just try launching with the animated dishes deployed and see what happens. Anyway I'm thinking of fazing out pretty much all the old dishes in favor of new animated target-tracking dishes. The first dish to fall will be the old remnant of the probodobodyne dish. I'm currently working on a neat little folding and tracking dish to replace it.

Regarding the range gap, it's there for a reason, since intermediate dish ranges would be mostly useless. the low range class has a range that can just reach minmus, the mid range class has a range that can just reach duna and eve and the long range can reach pretty much any planet within the solar system. There would be room for a class intermediate between mid and long, but doing so might complicate gameplay a little too much.

Thanks for the reply.

[Kromey]

Hello! Love the idea of this mod, going to be one of those that I install soon once I've mastered the basics a bit more (still feel like I'm just fumbling around blindly, even though I have had some successful missions).

However, I'm a bit wary about the effort that would be required for this to work.

Specifically, my concern stems from the communication methods. The antennae are omni-directional but short range; that's fine, all well and good, stick and antenna on and as long as there's line of sight I've got a link (within range, of course). But the satellite dishes... these have to be pointed directly at each other to transmit signals between them. Which means that if I set up a network around Kerbin and use it to relay signals to a network around Mun, all the satellite dishes at Kerbin are pointed at Mun -- so to then set up a network on Minmus that doesn't "go dark" when it's on the opposite side of Kerbin as Mun, do I have to deploy a whole 'nother relay network around Kerbin that will point at Minmus? And then later a third to point at Duna, a fourth to point at Eve, etc.?

That seems like a monumental amount of effort, way too much for me to still enjoy playing the game and extending outward beyond the Kerbin system, and for how much people seem to be enjoying this mod there really has to be something I'm missing -- doesn't there?

Can someone just please explain in simple terms how the network around Kerbin is set up when there's a need to control unmanned probes going out all over the Kerbol system? I don't need a full tutorial, just the high-level overview of the network(s) required to support long-range unmanned probes zipping out in all different directions.

[Itsdavyjones]

What I did in 4.0 was set up three keostatonary satellites (120 degrees apart if possible) with enough dishes to point to every planet and two dishes to point to Mun and Minmus to provide coms. This will provide you with basic coverage untill you get communication satellites around other planets and moons

[Kromey]

What I did in 4.0 was set up three keostatonary satellites (120 degrees apart if possible) with enough dishes to point to every planet and two dishes to point to Mun and Minmus to provide coms. This will provide you with basic coverage untill you get communication satellites around other planets and moons

Ah, okay, this makes sense. Still a lot of work, but at least it's not a full network per planet. Also explains why the brief tutorial on the wiki suggests a docking port to "expand" the satellite -- I'd assumed it was to expand it with additional features that may come in later updates, but now I guess it means expanding the number of dishes on the satellite.

Thanks!

[MaHuJa]

But the satellite dishes... these have to be pointed directly at each other to transmit signals between them.

You can point a kerbin dish at "mun" and a mun dish at kerbin, and they'll talk. I'm not entirely clear about how the mechanics of that work to/from outside the kerbin SOI though.

For probes going all over the system, I'd suggest having one pair of kerbin satellites per probe - possibly condensed into two massive "relay stations" - that will never be on the same side of kerbin. The satellite itself would only need a dish pointed at "Kerbin".

My preferred orbit for such a relay station has a polar apoapsis just short of losing contact with the "inner" network or escaping kerbin, whichever is shorter, and a periapsis and eccentricity that will make sure it spends far more time out there. If you have two of those and you don't mess it up horribly, you will never lose contact from the kerbin side.

These relay stations can then target/track each probe separately to always stay in contact as the probe moves between planets and spheres.

[gabmaia]

Did a quicktest on .20 and everything seams to be working... All shiny!

[Castun]

Good to know, was kind of worried. Had to start another game from scratch until some of my other mods are working properly again though.

[JDP]

Did a quicktest on .20 and everything seams to be working... All shiny!

Indeed, it seems RT survived the 0.20 update A-ok. I've since recompiled for 0.20 and am developing for this version (complete with new folder structure).

[BigNose]

Indeed, it seems RT survived the 0.20 update A-ok. I've since recompiled for 0.20 and am developing for this version (complete with new folder structure).

Aren't you lucky!

My Aviation Lights won't even load any more...

EDIT: They don't even load after rewriting the .cfgs to the new format. o.O Something fishy is going on here...

Edited May 23, 2013 by BigNose

[Castun]

Aren't you lucky!

My Aviation Lights won't even load any more...

EDIT: They don't even load after rewriting the .cfgs to the new format. o.O Something fishy is going on here...

Only thing I noticed was that the cockpit MFDs weren't working on my end, but pretty sure that's because I didn't put the plugin stuff in the right folder.

[Frostiken]

Is there any advantage of the smaller 'fixed' dish over the small deployable one? The both have the same max range (50Mm I think) but the fixed dish is pretty heafty to fit to things.

So...could/should the fixed dish be set to 50 billion meters instead? At the minute theres a huge jump from the Mm range to Gm and something in the Bm(?) range bracket could maybe plug a hole.

My rebalance simply made the other dishes heavier, larger, and more power demanding. The tiny deployable dish was exempt from this. It was kept fairly short-ranged, lightweight, and low-powered. This way a rover could remain in contact with an overhead satellite (similar to how Curiosity works) without needing to use lots of extra power.

[BigNose]

Thanks for your help with the Aviation Lights JDP, you're awesome.

[Itsdavyjones]

I love this mod, and just before 0.20 came out, I was messing with the remote tech drone. It's amazing, but my only grips with it is when your trying to build it in the VAB on the side of a rocket. Placing the wings in the right spot is a pain, and having only one wing for both sides is problematic. In some casses it is not aligned properly with the other one, or flipped over relative, and gettin it to the center of mass of the plane is very hard when attaching it to the side of a rocket. The one thing I would like to see for the drone is to have two separate wings, one for each side, and a node they attach to in order to get it to the CoM easier. Otherwise, love it.

[Kethevin]

Regarding that little drone; what role do you all give to it? How do you use it I mean? As a scout, dropped from space; a landing beacon; or something else entirely.

[MaHuJa]

If you build the probe in the SPH, you can use the symmetry mode. The same goes for its landing gear. Then using subassembly loader to put the finished assembly on your rockets is pure win.

[Castun]

Subassembly loader doesn't work properly with 0.2.0 unfortunately.

[Mianthadore]

Is anybody else having problems with the Probe Compatibility Patch?

It seems to be broken in 0.20 for me. All my probe cores and the default dish and antennae work like they would in vanilla. Seeing as about 90% of my comms network uses those parts, this is a slight problem for me.

[KOCOUR]

Dishes doesnt work properly. If you try to point dish to target, it doesnt work. everything else seems to work allright. I have only Mechjeb and RT. no other mods in 0.2.0 yet.

[Joshman_1306]

Dishes doesnt work properly. If you try to point dish to target, it doesnt work. everything else seems to work allright. I have only Mechjeb and RT. no other mods in 0.2.0 yet.

Do you mean that when you click on the dish and set it to a target it doesn't rotate or physically point at anything? Because if so, you might want to read the original post or the previous comments before you say stuff doesn't work...

[JDP]

Is anybody else having problems with the Probe Compatibility Patch?

It seems to be broken in 0.20 for me. All my probe cores and the default dish and antennae work like they would in vanilla. Seeing as about 90% of my comms network uses those parts, this is a slight problem for me.

Sadly the compatibility pack will need to be ported over to account for the new folder structures. I'll make sure to update the pack simultaneously with releasing RT 0.5.0.1.

Dishes doesnt work properly. If you try to point dish to target, it doesnt work. everything else seems to work allright. I have only Mechjeb and RT. no other mods in 0.2.0 yet.

As far as I've been able to tell, targeting still works just fine. If you're referring to the dishes physically rotating towards their target, that's a feature currently in development and hasn't been released yet.

[KOCOUR]

No i dont speak about physically rotating. As far as i know they never did that. I speak about the thing when you can click the dish, set the target to it, then click safe and close, and it will then say pointed at: "something". That doesnt work, and it did work before.

now if you click "safe and close" nothing happends, and you have to click "close without saving", wich leads to "pointed at:none"

Edited May 24, 2013 by KOCOUR