[0.20] RemoteTech: Relay Network – V 0.5.0.1

[NonWonderDog]

So I found an issue, but I don't know if it's something fixable:

The big satellite dish has a huge radius, but it folds up to be pretty small. It folds up small enough to fit inside a cargo bay on a SSTO. Unfortunately, the game thinks it needs as much room as if it was unfolded, so my 120 ton spaceplane starts off five feet above the runway. That doesn't work very well.

I haven't noticed that with other animated parts, but maybe I just haven't looked closely enough.

[apoch1999]

Its not recommended, but I was able to migrate my save over pretty easily. All of the probes did lose contact, and any probe using dishes had them fold up (probably applies to extendable antennas too), however, I was able to use short range antennas to re-establish contact with those probes, since everything I launch has them anyway. Now, the one caveat I noticed is that even once you're in communication range, you still need to manually load/control the probe in order for it to restore its connection and show up in the RemoteTech comsat list. Once you do that, just go back to the tracking station and you should be set.

Again though. None of that is recommended by JDP, but since you're going to lose your save anyway, it may be worth a shot. Just back your save up first.

i was able to upgrade and be fine..i just had to launch a new sat and put it in range of the now deactivated antennea and dishes to get them connected then they were able to fire right up

[dishycourier]

Thanks for addressing my issues. I love this update!

[Fourjays]

I tend to agree with the other helpfull people that the issue is due to your dishes not being pointed at each other. Another note: when you're in orbit around Kerbin you will not be able to get any kind of connection from a dish that's pointed at kerbin. You'll need to point it directly at a vessel, and have either an omni or a dish pointed back at you on the other end.

For low kerbin communications omnis are really the way to go. They have plenty of range to stay in contact even in kerbosynchronous constellations.

Indeed it will work. You'll start to really feel the signal delay though. I just sent a probe to Eeloo and the signal delay clocked in as high as 14 minutes. That's when the flight computer comes in really handy.

Feel so daft now. I went back to check as I was certain I had the two satellites targeting each other. They were. But I'd not activated the dish on the first satellite. Of course it works perfectly now. Thanks!

Does anyone have any examples of their networks and how they use the various dishes/antenna for mission communications? I'm trying to understand how the various components work and can be utilised. Like for a Voyager style mission, would the big dish at Kerbin and an antenna on the probe work? Or would I need a big dish on both (which would be a bit disappointing)? Would a Duna rover need a dish of its own? Do rovers/non-relay satellites still need a RemoteControl module? Thanks.

[Nightdragon]

I do have a question about Dishes and antenna. Now I understand that if you point a dish at one (I'm assuming just needs to point at the ship). But is the effect cumulative? Like can I say point 2-3 dishes at the same antenna and be able to make contact with it that way??

Cause that would be cool and effective, so you could get into contact with lost probes, so you could set up arrays designed just to contact long range probes (would be ALOT like IRL too, considering the fact in order to contact Voyager at a decent bit/rate they have alot of dishes

Edited April 24, 2013 by Nightdragon

[Fyrem]

JDP, (or anyone that knows for sure)

A dish pointing at an antenna will generally double the antennas range, but will this still happen if the Antenna is in a different SOI?

Example, I have 4 microsats (antenna only) in orbit around Minmus. I want to put a "Relay Sat" at the same orbit as Min (47,000km) but have it OUTSIDE Minmus's Soi, trailing Minmus by about 10km.

[JDP]

JDP, (or anyone that knows for sure)

A dish pointing at an antenna will generally double the antennas range, but will this still happen if the Antenna is in a different SOI?

Example, I have 4 microsats (antenna only) in orbit around Minmus. I want to put a "Relay Sat" at the same orbit as Min (47,000km) but have it OUTSIDE Minmus's Soi, trailing Minmus by about 10km.

It will work just fine, and since you'll be outside the SOI of minmus you can just point the dish at minmus, that will be enough to make contact with any omnis in orbit.

You best be very carefull when setting up your orbit though. Your semimajor axis needs to be pretty much exactly equal to that of minmus, or else you will drift from your relative position.

small dev note

I've just finished the rough coding of a new animated antenna module based on what I've learned from my custom gimbal module. I didn't really plan on it, but I kind of ended up implementing target tracking. So this will definetely be a thing in the next release. Another thing I've implemented is behaviour similar to solar panels: if you deploy your dish while traveling at high speed in a thick atmposphere it will blow apart in a lot of pieces and look awesome while doing so. I'm unsure whether more tracking dishes than the small-range I've showcased will make it into the next release, but at least that one should make it in.

I've also redone optimized the way relay data is calculated a lot. the experimental multithreading I've implemented without much hope of working has actually worked without a hitch. this, coupled with the buffered calculations for the "list comsats" window has made the game run a lot smoother. I still need to stress test it all though. I'll have to launch somewhere between 50-100 RemoteTech vessels in order to feel certain that the lag issue is sufficiently fixed.

Oh and the "throttle at 50% on window unfocused" bug; equally fixed

[Castun]

Awesome JDP, can't wait!

[unWinged]

Before forum crashed I made post about having troubles with Flight Computer GUI. I'm colourblind and cannot tell if given mode is ON or OFF. (well I see small difference if I know where to look and look hard...)

Version 5.0.0 uses same GUI so problem persist...

So I'm asking for some other way of showing witch option is active. It can be as simple as bold font or additional symbol or something.

Other than that mod is great and I'm grateful for it, it made me want to launch rockets again

[Deep silence]

Another thing I've implemented is behaviour similar to solar panels: if you deploy your dish while traveling at high speed in a thick atmposphere it will blow apart in a lot of pieces and look awesome while doing so.

I do not know whether this is related : your longantenna 'breaks' from the rocket when launching it, due (I believe) to the MaxQ parameter you added on the latest release. I found it to be way to fragile, as it breaks even at low speed...

Anyway, great plugin, thanks a lot!

[Interfect]

Before forum crashed I made post about having troubles with Flight Computer GUI. I'm colourblind and cannot tell if given mode is ON or OFF. (well I see small difference if I know where to look and look hard...)

Version 5.0.0 uses same GUI so problem persist...

So I'm asking for some other way of showing witch option is active. It can be as simple as bold font or additional symbol or something.

Other than that mod is great and I'm grateful for it, it made me want to launch rockets again

There is a color-blind mode in the mod's options (which I think you bring up in-game with alt-F11 or some such key combo). It's also available in the mod's config file. I'm not sure if it covers the flight computer UI, though.

[unWinged]

There is a color-blind mode in the mod's options (which I think you bring up in-game with alt-F11 or some such key combo). It's also available in the mod's config file. I'm not sure if it covers the flight computer UI, though.

Thanks didn't check there...

Now this mod is prefect for me

( running to launch more rockets)

[Zacho]

Something im wondering is if Mechjeb could still control the ship after lost signal? But that you could not change its settings. IE you are using ascent guidance in mechjeb and the probe goes dark, if MJ could do the rest of the ascent and circularize burn on its own. But you could not change or control anything till you get a com link back. Letting MJ work like the flight computer does now.

The new antenna looks great!

[JDP]

I do not know whether this is related : your longantenna 'breaks' from the rocket when launching it, due (I believe) to the MaxQ parameter you added on the latest release. I found it to be way to fragile, as it breaks even at low speed...

Anyway, great plugin, thanks a lot!

low speed? at kerbin sea level you need to travel at around 210 kmh (or 130 mph) before it breaks off. You will exceed this speed while launching and deorbiting easily though. Indeed I intended for it only to be usefull in orbit, since it has such a long range compared to weight. Use either the dipole or deployable antenna for atmospheric communications.

Something im wondering is if Mechjeb could still control the ship after lost signal? But that you could not change its settings. IE you are using ascent guidance in mechjeb and the probe goes dark, if MJ could do the rest of the ascent and circularize burn on its own. But you could not change or control anything till you get a com link back. Letting MJ work like the flight computer does now.

The new antenna looks great!

I'd like to. When it comes to functionality MechJeb is far superior to the flight computer. But disabling input in the MechJeb gui is something that can only really be done within MechJeb itself so It'd be something r4m0n and The_Duck has to do. Whether that will ever happen is very uncertain, they both have a lot to do with MJ2 as it is, so I'd imagine they wouldn't be keen to work on interfacing with other plugins at the moment.

[Athlonic]

@ JDP

Hi,

It seems an "old issue" is back : on an unmanned probe, I can't manage the throttle with my gamepad, keyboard works fine as other gamepads commands.

Thanks.

...

Odd... Nothing has changed in the way I get axis controls. RemoteTech still gets its axis input through the exact same method as stock and in fact it works just fine with the joystick I use for testing. Are you absolutely sure that the throttle works in non-RemoteTech vessels?

Hi,

Yes I confirm the issue.

Throttle are dead here with my X360 controller, only when using an unmanned Remotec ship.

I already had this issue with a previous version of Remotec back in January or so, then an update fixed it.

If I map the same axis to another control (ie roll) it works. If I use keyboard or buttons it works as well.

It is only throttle on axis that don't work.

Hope this help.

[JDP]

Hi,

Yes I confirm the issue.

Throttle are dead here with my X360 controller, only when using an unmanned Remotec ship.

I already had this issue with a previous version of Remotec back in January or so, then an update fixed it.

If I map the same axis to another control (ie roll) it works. If I use keyboard or buttons it works as well.

It is only throttle on axis that don't work.

Hope this help.

The old throttle issue came about when I fixed the input delay method for 0.18. The fix involved beefing everything up so that RemoteTech completely took over vessel flight inputs and took them directly from keypresses. What I failed to take into account was axis controls. This issue is thoroughly fixed since I grab the same axis input that the stock game does. To make it properly work I even bought a joystick for testing. The axis inputs in stock KSP haven't changed at all and to properly research the issue I'd need to replicate the circumstances, i.e.: buy a gamepad... this hobby of mine is starting to become mighty expensive .

Dev note: Who would I be if I didn't show off a daily dev video. Here's a test of the tracking dish while deorbiting. This test was focused on the break functionality. I had to write a custom drag model for all the pieces flying off the dish due to the krakensbane. But it was worth it in the end. I've also made sure to take dish direction into account when calculating airflow. So if your dishes are rotated towards the horizon they might just make it intact, but the moment they turn their broadsides towards the airflow, they're gone:

[xZise]

low speed? at kerbin sea level you need to travel at around 210 kmh (or 130 mph) before it breaks off. You will exceed this speed while launching and deorbiting easily though. Indeed I intended for it only to be usefull in orbit, since it has such a long range compared to weight. Use either the dipole or deployable antenna for atmospheric communications.

Eh? And how do you intend to use it, when you can't bring it to orbit?

(Or did I miss something ^^?)

Fabian

PS: Could you please make a “Changelog†page or so?

[toril]

to xZise its not breakable in its stowed position like solar panels at least that is what my impression of this is. And to jdp you sir have made my day ever since i first downloaded this mod I've been crying every time i 'pointed' a dish and it didn't actually point bravo and well done

[Camacha]

I probably missed this, but should I have MechJeb Installed for the computer to work?

Edit: wait, now I can turn with the computer, but numbers seem to flash and disappear in the spaces behind whatever button I press (KillRot, NML+ et cetera). Is this how it is supposed to work?

Edited April 25, 2013 by Camacha

[JDP]

I probably missed this, but should I have MechJeb Installed for the computer to work?

Edit: wait, now I can turn with the computer, but numbers seem to flash and disappear in the spaces behind whatever button I press (KillRot, NML+ et cetera). Is this how it is supposed to work?

It works completely on it's own. With r4m0ns permission (and considerable help I might add) I implemented the PID controller used by MJ1 Smart ASS. I did update it for 0.18 myself, so it's a bit different from what's curently used in MechJeb.

The numbers flashing are there to tell you that a signal is being sent + how long until it reaches the ship. But if you only have milliseconds of signal delay they're only visible for a single frame.

Go out further where the signal delay is measurable and you'll be able to see them for longer.

Eh? And how do you intend to use it, when you can't bring it to orbit?

(Or did I miss something ^^?)

Fabian

PS: Could you please make a “Changelog†page or so?

As has been said by toril, the antenna won't break apart if you keep it retracted, just like solar panels.

The changelog has become very very long, I used to have it displayed in the OP, but with spoiler tags not working, it simply took up too much space. In stead I now include the changelog in the readme.txt included with the plugin.

Edited April 26, 2013 by JDP

[unWinged]

I probably missed this, but should I have MechJeb Installed for the computer to work?

Edit: wait, now I can turn with the computer, but numbers seem to flash and disappear in the spaces behind whatever button I press (KillRot, NML+ et cetera). Is this how it is supposed to work?

It works without MJ

And, as I understand, those numbers show time till craft will receive command (due to delay)

EDIT: what JDP said

Edited April 26, 2013 by unWinged
Ninja'd (or whatever)

[JDP]

I think it might be time for another small dev video (I've learned how to youtube, and I'm currently in a "youtube all the things!" phase). I've tweaked the drag model I've written to take account for how the shrapnel is turned towards the airstream. it does lend a lot of neat realityness to the drag model without being actually real (I don't calculate surface areas or anything I just take the dot product of the shrapnel forward vector and the shrapnel velocity in stead of calculating the magnitude of the velocity vector)

The dishes aren't this sensitive by the way. They only broke because I told them to via a dev command. I'll use the same MaxQ value as I've used for other antennae, so these dishes too will break off at around 60 m/s at kerbin sea level.

[Athlonic]

The old throttle issue came about when I fixed the input delay method for 0.18. The fix involved beefing everything up so that RemoteTech completely took over vessel flight inputs and took them directly from keypresses. What I failed to take into account was axis controls. This issue is thoroughly fixed since I grab the same axis input that the stock game does. To make it properly work I even bought a joystick for testing. The axis inputs in stock KSP haven't changed at all and to properly research the issue I'd need to replicate the circumstances, i.e.: buy a gamepad... this hobby of mine is starting to become mighty expensive .

Hey,

I did some more testing regarding the axis throttle issue.

I found out it is only the "incremental" throttle control which doesn't work, if I use the standard throttle control it works.

I use incremental mode because my gamepad only have "auto centered axis".

See if you can reproduce the issue with your stick by mapping your throttle to the incremental command.

Tell me if you need more testing on this.

[JDP]

Hey,

I did some more testing regarding the axis throttle issue.

I found out it is only the "incremental" throttle control which doesn't work, if I use the standard throttle control it works.

I use incremental mode because my gamepad only have "auto centered axis".

See if you can reproduce the issue with your stick by mapping your throttle to the incremental command.

Tell me if you need more testing on this.

Thanks a bunch. Your work has saved me a lot of time (and money for a gamepad I maybe no longer need to buy). You might very well be on to something there. I'll see what I can do with the incremental axis and implement test support in the next release.

Oh, and another thing. What I said about not calculating surface area for shrapnel air resistance... yeah... I might actually do that.

[Athlonic]

Always a pleasure to help

Looking forward your next update,those new dishes looks "sexy" ^^

Thanks.