[0.20] RemoteTech: Relay Network – V 0.5.0.1

[onlinegamesz]

When you install this mod/plugin, can you still control your existing probes?

[Moon Goddess]

Depends on if you add the compatablity addon for stock probe parts. if you do then the answer is no.

[Kimberly]

I've still yet to figure out the flight computer, the interface is super confusing to me.

Like how do I bring a maneuver node into it?

I try to do it without the maneuver node. I clicked retrograde, slide the throttle to 100%, and typed in an amount of delta-v but I could never figure out how to send the command.

So I just continually don't use the flight computer.

You don't enter maneuver nodes into the computer. You make maneuver nodes as normal, and then tell the computer to orient the ship towards "Maneuver". Then, you can slide the computer throttle up to 100%, you type in an amount of burn time (I've never tried it with anything else) and in the box below, you enter in how much time the burn should occur (in the format HH:MM:SS). Then you click on send, and when the timer runs out, it will start the burn for the specified length of time at the specified throttle level. If you clicked Maneuver before and have ASAS, it should have kept that heading.

[Gary_P]

Thanks Kimberly, from me too. That sounds pretty cool.

It would be interesting to have a camera on a rover and not have to be there. Just use the camera and give it commands. If this is possible I haven't tried it.

[MR4Y]

Hopefully, this will work, although I'm afraid of extending the solar panels and antennae before separation and lose them:

[Frederf]

If you did a burn with a delay on it, the burn will execute as long as the connection was there when the command was received. It then waits the additional delay to perform the burn.

Here's a somewhat older screenshot of how the flight computer works now :3 (GUI is a bit unpolished, I know.)

#1 Nice and awesooome.

#2 I don't understand why the computer would wait after the scheduled burn. Surely the programming of the scheduled burn being stored is delayed but the execution is instant. Once the flight computer is programmed that data is local, right?

I've still yet to figure out the flight computer, the interface is super confusing to me. Like how do I bring a maneuver node into it? I try to do it without the maneuver node. I clicked retrograde, slide the throttle to 100%, and typed in an amount of delta-v but I could never figure out how to send the command. So I just continually don't use the flight computer.

It's not too hard. You have to recognize that the "flight computer" is two largely independent systems. The window titled "Computer" is for attitude control while the window titled "Throttle" is for throttle control. It would be nice if they were labeled as such. Anyway, attitude control has 9 options. Killrot just engages SAS. Pro/Retro/N+/N-/R+/R- point in the usual directions. Maneuver will point at the blue maneuver vector if available. Finally surface allows you to type in specific attitude numbers.

The throttle control three main parts:

1. Throttle Power, 0-100% throttle

2. Throttle Duration, clicking the label changes between time or deltaV mode. Value is input as seconds or m/s.

3. Delay input, an optional delay in the HH:MM:SS format. If not entered command is executed immediately.

Because the two systems are independent it's possible to burn the correct amount in entirely the wrong direction. The throttle control simple burns as commanded without regard for direction. You must confirm that the desired attitude mode is set and the craft has successfully achieved that attitude.

[MR4Y]

And, first satellite is in orbit:

[Cilph]

And, first satellite is in orbit:

I think congratulations are in order.

#1 Nice and awesooome.

#2 I don't understand why the computer would wait after the scheduled burn. Surely the programming of the scheduled burn being stored is delayed but the execution is instant. Once the flight computer is programmed that data is local, right?

Could you explain more clearly? What currently happens is that your burn has to wait the signal delay, this is the time it takes for the craft to receive the signal in the first place. The signal itself then can have an extra delay on top of the initial delay, for if you want to delay your burn even further. eg, send the burn in advance instead of exactly <signal delay> seconds before.

If your craft does not have a connection at the time the signal is supposed to be received, it will be discarded. Then it waits the extra delay. Then it will burn.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Cilph

[Kimberly]

Congratulations, MR4Y! Why such a low orbit, though?

[Frederf]

I think congratulations are in order.

Could you explain more clearly? What currently happens is that your burn has to wait the signal delay, this is the time it takes for the craft to receive the signal in the first place. The signal itself then can have an extra delay on top of the initial delay, for if you want to delay your burn even further. eg, send the burn in advance instead of exactly <signal delay> seconds before.

If your craft does not have a connection at the time the signal is supposed to be received, it will be discarded. Then it waits the extra delay. Then it will burn.

I don't understand "at the time the signal is supposed to be received."

My thought process is this:

12:00PM send message to probe two light minutes away "in 50 minutes, burn for 5 minutes"

12:02PM message is received at probe and stored in memory

12:52PM probe begin burn

12:57PM probe ends burn

Notice there is no delay between the scheduled burn (as the probe knows it) and the burn itself.

[Cilph]

I don't understand "at the time the signal is supposed to be received."

My thought process is this:

12:00PM send message to probe two light minutes away "in 50 minutes, burn for 5 minutes"

12:02PM message is received at probe and stored in memory

12:52PM probe begin burn

12:57PM probe ends burn

Notice there is no delay between the scheduled burn (as the probe knows it) and the burn itself.

The signal delay is an abstraction of what happens in the code. What happens in the code is that all commands are stored in a queue and that when the command is allowed to execute, after the signal delay passes, it is popped from the queue and executed. So the earliest a command can execute is after the signal delay. The delay is adjusted to include the signal delay. If you send with a 50 minute delay, and the signal delay is 5 minutes, you're really sending a 45 minute delay.

User wishes to send to probe with 5 minutes signal delay, 50 minutes total delay

12:00 PM send message to probe two light minutes away "in 50(really 45) minutes, burn for 5 minutes"

12:05 PM message is received at probe and stored

12:50 PM probe begins burn

12:55 PM probe ends burn

Edited July 2, 2013 by Cilph

[MR4Y]

Congratulations, MR4Y! Why such a low orbit, though?

I had no fuel. Since I wasn't sure of the launch and I don't have any fairing parts installed(Unfortunately, to have fairings, I would have to install mods with loads of rocket parts), I made an Apollo style rocket, where the satellite is behind the manned module for aerodynamic purposes(since I use FAR)

[Cilph]

I had no fuel. Since I wasn't sure of the launch and I don't have any fairing parts installed(Unfortunately, to have fairings, I would have to install mods with loads of rocket parts), I made an Apollo style rocket, where the satellite is behind the manned module for aerodynamic purposes(since I use FAR)

You could always take KW Rocketry, and install just the fairings.

[MR4Y]

You could always take KW Rocketry, and install just the fairings.

I use JS Generic Mode Enabler, for the sake of not having to copy and paste mods everytime. It's either the entire mod or not.

[cxg2827]

I noticed a few times where I sent a command for a probe to burn in the maneuver node vector. But, when I timewarpped to get closer to the burn time, the probe is lagging behind the maneuver node vector a tiny bit. Is this normal, or did i goof something up?

I do notice sometimes when I point at the maneuver node and timewarp, the craft begins to deviate from the indicator, so I was thinking it may not be a remotetech issue

[Babalas]

A hint for typing in numbers in the flight computer. If you have action groups set or KAS use the numpad otherwise you'll have all manner of weird things going on. Suspect this is a linux version bug however since I've also set off staging when renaming vessels to something containing a space.

[JDP]

I've still yet to figure out the flight computer, the interface is super confusing to me.

Like how do I bring a maneuver node into it?

I try to do it without the maneuver node. I clicked retrograde, slide the throttle to 100%, and typed in an amount of delta-v but I could never figure out how to send the command...

I've been meaning to make a tutorial video using the flight computer basics for quite some time now. And now I just have :

In the video I start out in a completely empty world and launch a single relay satellite, complete with heavy usage of the flight computer and scheduling of an out-of-contact burn at apoapsis; also known as the CAPFLYER method.

[Cilph]

SNIP

What, you did this knowing the UI is going to be vastly different next version ? If you were easier to contact I'd send you a current alpha.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Cilph

[JDP]

What, you did this knowing the UI is going to be vastly different next version ? If you were easier to contact I'd send you a current alpha.

I was playing with editing software anyways. getting a practice video done before doing a complete suite of tutorials on the new plugin seemed a good use of time

[Mazon Del]

Hrm, I appear to have run into a problem that I am not certain of the solution.

I launched an unmanned ship that I intended to be the first in a set of solar relays (so I have continuous signal even if the sun is in the way). Everything was going well, but a very short distance away (about 80 MM) the ship says it is out of contact. I checked all the simple stuff.

-Has power? Yes. Multiple huge solar panels, plus plenty of fully charged batteries.

-Radios deployed? Yes. 6 of the white tracking dishes (50 GM range) set up to track the 4 communications satellites I have in orbit around Kerbin, and 2 around the Mun (in case the mun was ever in the way).

-Right remote-tech controller? Yup, the 1m orange one.

Now, none of the satellites in question were pointing their dishes (50MM range) at this ship. I had thought this did not matter, so I went to one that had LOS and pointed an unused dish at it. No change.

Did the mod recently take into account the capabilities of the other satellites? (IE: Those targeted satellites, do they also need to have super range? I remember long ago in the mod, it didn't matter if the target couldn't reach you, as long as you could reach it, and it had a valid chain back to some Kerbal controller.)

Any ideas?

[Cilph]

Hrm, I appear to have run into a problem that I am not certain of the solution.

I launched an unmanned ship that I intended to be the first in a set of solar relays (so I have continuous signal even if the sun is in the way). Everything was going well, but a very short distance away (about 80 MM) the ship says it is out of contact. I checked all the simple stuff.

-Has power? Yes. Multiple huge solar panels, plus plenty of fully charged batteries.

-Radios deployed? Yes. 6 of the white tracking dishes (50 GM range) set up to track the 4 communications satellites I have in orbit around Kerbin, and 2 around the Mun (in case the mun was ever in the way).

-Right remote-tech controller? Yup, the 1m orange one.

Now, none of the satellites in question were pointing their dishes (50MM range) at this ship. I had thought this did not matter, so I went to one that had LOS and pointed an unused dish at it. No change.

Did the mod recently take into account the capabilities of the other satellites? (IE: Those targeted satellites, do they also need to have super range? I remember long ago in the mod, it didn't matter if the target couldn't reach you, as long as you could reach it, and it had a valid chain back to some Kerbal controller.)

Any ideas?

The other satellites need their dishes pointed at your unmanned ship. With proper range.

[Frederf]

The signal delay is an abstraction of what happens in the code. What happens in the code is that all commands are stored in a queue and that when the command is allowed to execute, after the signal delay passes, it is popped from the queue and executed. So the earliest a command can execute is after the signal delay. The delay is adjusted to include the signal delay. If you send with a 50 minute delay, and the signal delay is 5 minutes, you're really sending a 45 minute delay.

User wishes to send to probe with 5 minutes signal delay, 50 minutes total delay

12:00 PM send message to probe two light minutes away "in 50(really 45) minutes, burn for 5 minutes"

12:05 PM message is received at probe and stored

12:50 PM probe begins burn

12:55 PM probe ends burn

The impression that I got was that it might wait for the scheduled event to arrive and then apply the signal delay before the action occurs despite the command being scheduled ages ago. That would be terrible. It seems that's not the case. What is new information is that commands have a sort of "auto compensation" for signal delay insomuch as the "do this X time from now" happens X time after the message is sent, instead of received which makes things easier in most cases.

[Mazon Del]

The other satellites need their dishes pointed at your unmanned ship. With proper range.

Drat, I was hoping you wouldn't say that.

Luckily I designed my Satellites to be modular and upgradable midflight.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Mazon Del

[onlinegamesz]

Depends on if you add the compatablity addon for stock probe parts. if you do then the answer is no.

But if you only install the plugin, then you can also control your existing probes?

[John Nowak]

Many thanks for this mod: it adds a lot of challenge and fun to the game. I'm presently trying a no-probecore game, and I'm having a lot of fun with it.

I did have a few suggestions, though.

1) While the Compatibility Pack fixes this, it would be nice to have a probe core sized "Remote Control" module.

2) The Range rules seem to assume there is no such thing as a more powerful transmitter -- suggest that the ranges of the two antennas be added instead of using the smaller of the two. The ranges of existing systems might then be cut in two to preserve the gameplay.

3) I have experienced an intermittent bug where spacecraft without any remote control units get their SAS locked wither on or off. Returning to the tracking station and re-opening the spacecraft seems to fix this. However, I don't know for sure if this is a bug in RemoteTech, or if it is a bug in the core game which Remote Tech module prevent...

4) I have a spacecraft without a command pod but with command seats, a Remote Command module, and a dish antenna. After a kerbal boards the command seat, the dish does not open and cannot be used to target another vehicle. However, returning to the tracking station and reloading fixes this. Perhaps Remote Tech doesn't realize the ship is now under control?

Again, thanks!