[0.20] RemoteTech: Relay Network – V 0.5.0.1

[JDP]

JDP, i PM'd you. Not sure if that went ok since it's not in my outbox.

I got it ok, I've just been at work. You should have a wall of text in your inbox by now

[Zalack]

Quick question about this mod:

I have my persistent debris set to 25 to keep my processor from being overtaxed. Do remote controlled debris count as debris or manned vessels? Will my satellites dissapear as the debris limit is hit, or will they stay in he current flights list?

Thanks

[JDP]

Quick question about this mod:

I have my persistent debris set to 25 to keep my processor from being overtaxed. Do remote controlled debris count as debris or manned vessels? Will my satellites dissapear as the debris limit is hit, or will they stay in he current flights list?

Thanks

In theory they shouldn't. But I have recently had one pretty nasty experience of all my MunarSat's dissapearing after a trip to minmus with the standard setting for debris. I would probably recommend setting the max debris to infinite and keeping close control with how much debris you're generating (Use explosives if you want to do it the easy, Michael Bay, way )

[semininja]

To prevent that, I use a PowerSat and tell it to show as an active flight from the right-click menu.

[Subcidal]

Ok, I figured this out.... as-per readme this modified carts.dll is using the RCS translate keys, not the I/K/J/L keys that the original carts.dll use

Yeah this kinda sucks, I would prefer the ijkl keys as my RCS keys are customly bound, and odd for driving.

Edit: Also, I think you should add a module that's only able to communicate through a network, And can't relay a signal. I kind of figured that would of been the way all of the default ones are, as it just looks silly with an antenna sticking out of the side of your rocket that's been designed for aerodynamics, So i opted to make them antennas as well in the .cfgs

Maybe even adding some sort of 1m part that's "full of technological equipment for communication" instead of just dishes and antennas (Keep them too though, to be the actual device to send/receive the signals) to give a little penalty and misc. structural parts to put comsats up and make them look neato at the same time. As it is you kind of have to go out of your way to add irrelevant stuff just to make them look spiffy, Well if you care that is. I think it would be a nice addition.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Subcidal
Afterthoughts

[wildkittyv1]

Could someone help me diagnose what the issue is with my satellites?

That's the delivery vehicle and I'm putting these up in Keosynchronous orbit (2.869k km appx.). Each little detached probe is made up of:

Jet Structural Fuselage

Remote SAS

Remote Control

Satellite

Aesthetic Solar Panels from Kosmos

Now, when I detach the satellite modules, they change their name from "Vehicle Debris" to "Vehicle RC", so that's working. They show up in my commsat list, and I can point them at each other and what not. I cannot, however, switch to local control when I change my view to the craft, I cannot rotate them, and they constantly read "Out of Radio Contact".

I've released two of them at Keosynchronous altitude about 60 degrees apart from each other along the circumference of that orbit, so it's not like the satellite dishes don't have the range as that's nowhere near 50k km. I've tried launching a small rocket with the remote pod as the command module, remote control and satellite dish and I do not have control over it (the orbiting satellites are in view). What else do I need to toss on these guys to make them work? I was under the impression all I needed was a relay device (the sat dish) and a remote control (on there), but added the remote SAS so I could spin them around even though I'm happy with where they're located.

Any help? I spent like 3 hours trying to get this to work last night and it's very frustrating to have this wall in front of me.

Thanks

[rkman]

Quick-and-dirty side mounted dipole antenna for all your aesthetic rocketry needs.

Same functionality as RemoteAntenna.

[JDP]

...Now, when I detach the satellite modules, they change their name from "Vehicle Debris" to "Vehicle RC", so that's working. They show up in my commsat list, and I can point them at each other and what not. I cannot, however, switch to local control when I change my view to the craft, I cannot rotate them, and they constantly read "Out of Radio Contact"...

Local control only works if the vessel actually has crew to take over the controls.

Your satellites don't just need to be in contact with each other, they also need to be in contact with a command station in order for anything to actually send a control signal to them. Mission Control at KSC is always a command station, it has an omnidirectional antenna, so adding one of those to your satellites would do the trick (if they are in the sky above KSC and not under the horizon).

You could also put a RemoteCommand module and an omnidirectional antenna on your central manned vessel. That way, the crew on your central vessel will be another command station, able to send a command signal to the satellites directly (I.e. make them controllable).

I made a vessel much like yours. I've posted a pic of it as an example of how to deploy your first relay network. It's on page 4 of this thread.

[wildkittyv1]

Local control only works if the vessel actually has crew to take over the controls.

Your satellites don't just need to be in contact with each other, they also need to be in contact with a command station in order for anything to actually send a control signal to them. Mission Control at KSC is always a command station, it has an omnidirectional antenna, so adding one of those to your satellites would do the trick (if they are in the sky above KSC and not under the horizon).

You could also put a RemoteCommand module and an omnidirectional antenna on your central manned vessel. That way, the crew on your central vessel will be another command station, able to send a command signal to the satellites directly (I.e. make them controllable).

I made a vessel much like yours. I've posted a pic of it as an example of how to deploy your first relay network. It's on page 4 of this thread.

Thanks for the quick reply and I'll work on fixing the issue. It definitely shouldn't be a horizon problem, so I'm going to assume it's not having the antenna which I didn't think I needed since I had the satellite. Is it something like a certain part can only communicate with other same parts, i.e. a satellite can't communicate with an antenna, but if you have an antenna and a satellite on the same craft then it can convert the signal from one to the other?

I'm also trying to figure out why you needed 8 dishes on the deep space ones you sent out. Does stacking them compound the signal, or was it just so you could have them pointed in multiple directions at once? Sorry about all the questions but I want to do this as efficiently as possible so I don't need to have 500 of these things floating around and cluttering up my tracking station mission list.

[i0nicx]

Thanks for the quick reply and I'll work on fixing the issue. It definitely shouldn't be a horizon problem, so I'm going to assume it's not having the antenna which I didn't think I needed since I had the satellite. Is it something like a certain part can only communicate with other same parts, i.e. a satellite can't communicate with an antenna, but if you have an antenna and a satellite on the same craft then it can convert the signal from one to the other?

I'm also trying to figure out why you needed 8 dishes on the deep space ones you sent out. Does stacking them compound the signal, or was it just so you could have them pointed in multiple directions at once? Sorry about all the questions but I want to do this as efficiently as possible so I don't need to have 500 of these things floating around and cluttering up my tracking station mission list.

Satellites communicate with satellites and antennas communicate with antennas. As for not cluttering your tracking station, the antennas have a reach of 5000km, so you can basically setup 2-4 sats every 500km to keep your range good and not have too many sats.. Here's what I have: http://i.imgur.com/tQxGm.png it's currently a work in progress.

EDIT: satellites=dishes

[JDP]

...Is it something like a certain part can only communicate with other same parts, i.e. a satellite can't communicate with an antenna, but if you have an antenna and a satellite on the same craft then it can convert the signal from one to the other?...

The short answer is yes. For a more detailed answer see the "which parts are needed for what" section of the OP.

For now, you cannot point a dish at an omnidirectional antenna. That option will be added in the next update though. Such a pairing will give you a range bonus of x2. The maximum distance between satellite A and B (where A has a satellite dish pointed at B and B has an omnidirectional antenna) would then not be 5.000 km as it would be if they both had omnidirectional antennae, but 10.000 km.

...I'm also trying to figure out why you needed 8 dishes on the deep space ones you sent out. Does stacking them compound the signal, or was it just so you could have them pointed in multiple directions at once?..

That was purely done to be able to have the satellite pointing dishes in many different directions. My very high-orbit comsats are outside the range of omnidirectional antennae, so they need to each have a dish pairing with every other satellite in orbit as well as the Cart mounted dishes i put on the ground near KSC (plus one directed at Mun and one at Minmus). I actually wouldn't recommend putting your satellites in higher than kerbosyncronous orbit for now, since that will give you a very large number of satellite dishes needed and a lot of dish setup.

That number of required dishes for very high orbits will however go down quite a lot in 0.33 with the addition of the antenna-dish pairing.

[JDP]

By the way. I've been thinking about maybe nerfing RemoteCommand in the next update. Making it so that it only works if the vessel has landed on a planet. I keep thinking that it's a little too convenient right now to simply put 3 RemoteCommand vessels in orbit around each planet and you would have almost complete signal coverage with almost no signal delay.

What do you guys think?

I must admit, I really like the idea of a powerfull incentive to build Munbases, complete with their own command stations.

[Kreuzung]

No, I actually want my command station to orbit Kerbin. Maybe make it require more crew (evtl. depending on it's task)? On heavier?

(depending on it's task as in heavier ship = more noobs needed or so)

[royying]

I hope the next update can fix unmanned pod issue, now my mun taxi team are useless

[vXSovereignXv]

It makes sense to have a command station in orbit. For example a crew in orbit could control a rover on the ground.

[gabmaia]

You should make a huge part called Orbital Command Center or something like it and it should be required to control other ships from orbit... Are you going to integrate with one of the energy plugins? That would be nice as well, if you do, that part could suck up a lot of juice... Requiring extra crew members on it would also be cool...

[JDP]

No, I actually want my command station to orbit Kerbin. Maybe make it require more crew (evtl. depending on it's task)? On heavier?

(depending on it's task as in heavier ship = more noobs needed or so)

And there we have the major drawback: no spacestation awesomeness . I think your idea of crew requirement is very good. I might set it to at least 5, so you'll need to have a full crewtank on your space station in order for your command station having enough staff to function. And you'd probably have to perform at least one successful rendezvous in order to fully supply your spacestation with crew. Giving you a real challenge for the reward of having another Mission Control.

[JDP]

I hope the next update can fix unmanned pod issue, now my mun taxi team are useless

I've spent a lot of time trying to fix that one, all i've tried has failed. So unless I get a heureka moment, don't count on it. If I where you, i'd probably not set my hopes on me, but rather r4m0n. If anyone can find a way, i think it will be him.

[Leon_Brooks]

I am a big fan of orbit command ships. I have one over Mun and one over Minmus, each in polar orbit. Mun command at 400k and Min command at 175k.

Those, in turn, hit one of two relay sats in a 30degree orbit. 150k for Mun and 75k for Minmus.

Finally ending the connection to rovers with 250kRC Antennas attached.

As for more crew to make it workable... Sounds like a great balance. I think four would be a good number. One man pod+crew tank.

Edit: I may have suggested four because the orbit commands I currently have in orbit consist of a one man pod and crew tank

[royying]

I've spent a lot of time trying to fix that one, all i've tried has failed. So unless I get a heureka moment, don't count on it. If I where you, i'd probably not set my hopes on me, but rather r4m0n. If anyone can find a way, i think it will be him.

I have a idea, but I not sure is it possible:

Put a computer inside remote control and remote command module as "crew"

Then force to turn off the local control if the craft have no real crew

So the system let the craft be control and the craft still cannot control with no signal

like this:

Of course don't make a hatch on both RC modules, otherwise the CPU may able to EVA...

and the CPU icon can hide like crewtank mod

Edited August 12, 2012 by royying

[togfox]

More crew is great but lets not make this plugin dependant on others (ie crewtank). Not everyone likes/uses that mod.

[Anomalous_Matter]

So, is there any way to have a satellite that can send signals to unmanned vessels without having a crew itself?

[ddavis425]

Sorry if it's been asked, but if I put antennas on a piece of debris will it act as a satellite?

[togfox]

My satellites all have the unmanned pod on them. It's a way of saying 'this craft has no crew and it requires a radio signal to function correctly'. The modified cart has this unmanned pod already built into it.

With the unmanned pod attached, it wont' work without a signal. You then need to attach the 500m antenna so it can get that signal and launch.

It then uses the network and also becomes a part of the network. My satellites all have the unmanned pod but I'm not sure if that is necessary. Perhaps not.

The new cart dll requires a signal, so you can put the short 250m antenna on that and off you go. Note that it is 'side attached' and looks quite need attached to the side of the cart (not the top).

The dishes need to be on a craft that has the 500m antenna. It needs to first receive the signal via the 500m, then 'boost' that signal to a) another craft with a dish; Minmus c) Mun. that receiving craft will also need a 500m antenna to convert the boosted signal back into a "broad wave" normal signal.

Edited August 13, 2012 by togfox

[JDP]

Sorry if it's been asked, but if I put antennas on a piece of debris will it act as a satellite?

Nope. You have to also give it a signal processor (go with the RemoteControl module)

...The new cart dll requires a signal, so you can put the short 250m antenna on that and off you go. Note that it is 'side attached' and looks quite need attached to the side of the cart (not the top)

The dishes need to be on a craft that has the 500m antenna. It needs to first receive the signal via the 500m, then 'boost' that signal to a) another craft with a dish; Minmus c) Mun. that receiving craft will also need a 500m antenna to convert the boosted signal back into a "broad wave" normal signal...

Actually my modified Cart plugin works fine without any remotetech parts on it. The only thing i changed is to make it use the control input that's built into KSP. The standard Cart plugin processes keystrokes directly, and those don't work with the signal delay.

The small RC Antenna is a system complete with both a RemoteControl signal processor and an antenna, so it will make any vessel controllable, not just carts.