insert_name Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Further delays due to issues with TDRS new T-0 not yet decided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brotoro Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Holds are resolved. Launch in about 5 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedKraken Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 RL-10 is burning now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 Vulcan rises: Metal actually being bent, it's not a paper rocket any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooNamedGames Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, tater said: Vulcan rises: Metal actually being bent, it's not a paper rocket any more. Took long enough. I actually started to get concerned that it'd fall to the fate of ITS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 Super happy to see this happening. I want all the rockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racescort666 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 I'm really excited for IVF to fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 51 minutes ago, Racescort666 said: I'm really excited for IVF to fly. Are they still working on that? ACES is an awesome idea, and an area where ULA could leapfrog booster reuse, and lead the way with in-space reuse. Currently they are planning on working towards larger Centaur, but I have not heard anything clear about ACES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racescort666 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 I suppose this is the most appropriate place for this press release: http://www.rocket.com/article/3-d-printed-rl10c-x-prototype-rocket-engine-soars-through-initial-round-testing Yay! 3D printed RL10! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 A friend and I were discussing this over the weekend. The oft-quoted prices for RL-10 on the net have to be wrong, indeed, wrong by probably an order of magnitude. There is no possible way that each RL-10 costs 25-35 M$ (that's a common range to see quoted). It's probably still expensive, but closer to 10X lower than that. Tory Bruno has said, for example that Vulcan will be a sub-100M$ rocket (unsure if that's cost to customer or not). Regardless, with 5m Centaur on top (super excited to see this, Centaur is arguably the best rocket stage ever), and 2XRL-10, that stage cost has got to be a decently small fraction of total cost. Same is true of Atlas V (with 1 RL-10). Blue just recently said they were unsure if Be-4 would fly first on NG, or Vulcan. I've seen bending metal for Vulcan, not any word on NG... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racescort666 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, tater said: A friend and I were discussing this over the weekend. The oft-quoted prices for RL-10 on the net have to be wrong, indeed, wrong by probably an order of magnitude. There is no possible way that each RL-10 costs 25-35 M$ (that's a common range to see quoted). It's probably still expensive, but closer to 10X lower than that. Tory Bruno has said, for example that Vulcan will be a sub-100M$ rocket (unsure if that's cost to customer or not). Regardless, with 5m Centaur on top (super excited to see this, Centaur is arguably the best rocket stage ever), and 2XRL-10, that stage cost has got to be a decently small fraction of total cost. Same is true of Atlas V (with 1 RL-10). Blue just recently said they were unsure if Be-4 would fly first on NG, or Vulcan. I've seen bending metal for Vulcan, not any word on NG... There's a chance too that the 25-35 M$ is what they cost at one time and incremental improvements to manufacturing have reduced cost. The more you make something, the better you get at it and things like scrap rate start to go down saving on cost. Also, +1 for Centaur being awesome. The 5m Centaur is going to be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, Racescort666 said: The 5m Centaur is going to be awesome. And it's an incremental road to ACES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickSawyer Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 You do remember that the RL-10 as it flies today is hands-down one of the most manual labor intensive engines made? I mean, it's brazed tube construction for the chamber and nozzle. Parts may be cheap, but the skilled labor to actually do the construction isn't. I'm not entirely sure you can do a furnace braze on that or not. I'll have to ask a contact of mine with some experience in such matters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 43 minutes ago, MaverickSawyer said: You do remember that the RL-10 as it flies today is hands-down one of the most manual labor intensive engines made? I mean, it's brazed tube construction for the chamber and nozzle. Parts may be cheap, but the skilled labor to actually do the construction isn't. I'm not entirely sure you can do a furnace braze on that or not. I'll have to ask a contact of mine with some experience in such matters... Yeah, I know it's labor intensive, but the number often quoted is 38 million per engine. That's absurd. RL-10 is small, you can't even have every many people doing the hand work on the engine at the same time, they won't fit around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuyWithALongUsername Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 2 hours ago, tater said: And it's an incremental road to ACES. That's the important bit, TBH. ACES is not only way underappreciated for what it is, but IMHO fairly competitive with the whole new space scene that's popping up. Even in the wake of Starship, (Vulcan w/ SMART?) + ACES seems like a pretty good business plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, ThatGuyWithALongUsername said: That's the important bit, TBH. ACES is not only way underappreciated for what it is, but IMHO fairly competitive with the whole new space scene that's popping up. Even in the wake of Starship, (Vulcan w/ SMART?) + ACES seems like a pretty good business plan. Yeah, reuse in space is a non-trivial aspect of making space accessible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 What I don't get with ACES is, if you need to refuel it to reuse it, and if you need another ACES to refuel it, how is that better than just launching a new ACES? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said: What I don't get with ACES is, if you need to refuel it to reuse it, and if you need another ACES to refuel it, how is that better than just launching a new ACES? This is a really good question. The basic idea is that ACES gets to LEO less than full (because it uses itself to achieve orbit as a second stage). Next ACES (a few?) refill the first one, then you have a large stage in LEO with 100% props. The refilling stages could be "passive," with minimal control and lifetime, such that the active stage being refilled does the work, increasing the prop mass of the passive tank (assuming that RCS props are also refilled). It can be left with just enough in it so that when it is undocked, ACES moves away, then it deorbits itself. Still, it's a wasteful system at some level, unlike landing the refilling stage, and reusing it (Starship concept). Edited April 9, 2019 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racescort666 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 This is super cool but I have mixed feelings about how much machine time this takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Racescort666 said: This is super cool but I have mixed feelings about how much machine time this takes. Why? Seems automated, and scalable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racescort666 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 3 hours ago, tater said: Why? Seems automated, and scalable. I think what rubs me the wrong way is how much this one piece must cost and part of me is wondering if there's a better way of manufacturing it to get the cost down. Part of the cost is definitely the scrap/waste from the process, you have a big slab of aluminum and 75%(ish) gets machined away. Yeah, you can recycle the chips but you don't recover 75% of the raw material cost after it's been turned into chips. That's usually only a small part though. The other part is literally how much time it takes; machine time is expensive and I guess it's just been hammered into me enough to try and eliminate machining operations as much as possible. Obviously they're necessary in a lot of cases but we've been asked to move attachment points and heights of attachment points to save on machine time to save cost. Granted, I come from a world where saving $1 per part is a big deal and vehicles come off the assembly line on the order of 1/minute so parts have to be made much faster than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperFastJellyfish Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 ULA Vulcan Centaur development summary from a few days ago: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) So in that video, they reiterate that Vulcan flies in Spring 2021. The heavy version not until 2023, however. Literally everything except the BE-4s will fly on Atlas between now and 2021. New fairing will check out on Atlas/Delta IV. Even 5m Centaur. Nice (particularly the Centaur). Edited April 13, 2019 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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