Does Eve have life?

[regex]

1 minute ago, KerikBalm said:

Clearly, we are missing some important information.

Based on the very existence of Laythe I'll go with "a solar system with very little scientific basis".

[KerikBalm]

I was referring to our own solar system's history, and how Earth seems to have managed to have (mostly ice free) oceans for nearly 4 billion years despite the dim early sun... also how mars appears to have had stable bodies of liquid water, some perhaps lasting 1 billion years, despite being even farther from the Sun with a presumably even thinner atmosphere than Earth...

But yes, I agree, the KSP system doesn't have much scientific basis. To make any sense of it, you have to pick a set of assumptions and extrapolate from there, discarding any data in the game that runs contrary to it.

Even then, we run into problems... like laythe, like Minmus, like Eve.... etc...

At the higher atmospheric pressures, I've heard that Eve could have water at its stated temperature... but that temperature shouldn't last... Eve should go runaway greenhouse rapidly, which would imply a very young system where this is still happening.... but Kerbin (and the general lack of chaos in the solar system/ highly circular orbits of most bodies) appears incompatible with the idea that we're seeing these planets shortly after formation.

I don't even know what to say about Jool's unstable system of moons... would it still be unstable if they were scaled down? Jupiters 4 moons are comparable in size to our moon... Tylo and laythe are waaayyyyyy bigger than Mun.

And there's no way to have Laythe be like a slightly colder, wetter, 2nd Earth... err Kerbin... and all that O2 in the air... not plausible. Its probably too close for lakes of Methane/Ethane, too far for water... ammonia maybe?

[regex]

24 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

But yes, I agree, the KSP system doesn't have much scientific basis. To make any sense of it, you have to pick a set of assumptions and extrapolate from there, discarding any data in the game that runs contrary to it.

Fan fiction.

24 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

I don't even know what to say about Jool's unstable system of moons... would it still be unstable if they were scaled down?

Principia uses a retrograde Bop in order to stabilize the system as given for some 1000 years.

[Tyko]

perhaps it was once populated with cats and you won't know if they're still alive until you visit Eve.

[KerikBalm]

53 minutes ago, regex said:

Fan fiction.

I never argued that it wasn't... I'm just explaining the basis of my fan fiction and how I'd approach the question of fictional life on fictional Eve.

[Aegolius13]

Protomolecule.

[Azimech]

On 10/22/2017 at 7:19 PM, regex said:

You would have to resize Kerbol in some fashion to arrive at relatively realistic solar system no matter what you did. If we resize radius and SMA, which is the normal means on this forum of making sense of a tiny solar system with impossible densities, and we use a flat value of 10 for a multiplier (Kerbin can be denser than Earth, that's fine), we end up with a Kerbol that is roughly a mid-sized B-class main sequence star. If we go from luminosity Kerbol has less than about 1/128 that of our own Sun; I'm not sure how that scales up but it is likely tied to radius. From stated temperature Kerbol is hotter than our own sun. Its mass is completely out of whack based on all this.

In the past I have assumed a middle-tier K-class main sequence star for Kerbin which I arrived at by scaling the radius up by a 6.4 multiplier, based on that old modder's rule-of-thumb for sizing realistic parts to KSP, which means it needs to be sized down considerably in stock.

But then you run into the problem of Kerbin itself. Scaling its SMA by the same factor that one would scale its radius to arrive at Earth (a factor of 10.6) would put it 5 million km closer to Kerbol than Earth is to the Sun. If Kerbol is a G-class star with its stated temperature then Kerbin would be much hotter than Earth. If Kerbol is a K-class star then Kerbin is much too far from it to support a temperate habitat. If Kerbol's radius is scaled by the same amount then Kerbin is a very hot rock indeed.

It's so hard to make sense of this solar system scientifically. Scaling its luminosity is probably the best way to go but by what factor do we do it?

Star classes don't have hard boundaries.

Luminosity is also a factor of age.

And I think metallicity is a factor as well.

Maybe we can assume Kerbol is a very heavy metal rich star - something you'd expect in a universe much older than this one.

Unless your name is Ozzy Osborne. 

20 hours ago, Tyko said:

perhaps it was once populated with cats and you won't know if they're still alive until you visit Eve.

That's hilarious! 

[Azimech]

21 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I was referring to our own solar system's history, and how Earth seems to have managed to have (mostly ice free) oceans for nearly 4 billion years despite the dim early sun... also how mars appears to have had stable bodies of liquid water, some perhaps lasting 1 billion years, despite being even farther from the Sun with a presumably even thinner atmosphere than Earth...

But yes, I agree, the KSP system doesn't have much scientific basis. To make any sense of it, you have to pick a set of assumptions and extrapolate from there, discarding any data in the game that runs contrary to it.

Even then, we run into problems... like laythe, like Minmus, like Eve.... etc...

At the higher atmospheric pressures, I've heard that Eve could have water at its stated temperature... but that temperature shouldn't last... Eve should go runaway greenhouse rapidly, which would imply a very young system where this is still happening.... but Kerbin (and the general lack of chaos in the solar system/ highly circular orbits of most bodies) appears incompatible with the idea that we're seeing these planets shortly after formation.

I don't even know what to say about Jool's unstable system of moons... would it still be unstable if they were scaled down? Jupiters 4 moons are comparable in size to our moon... Tylo and laythe are waaayyyyyy bigger than Mun.

And there's no way to have Laythe be like a slightly colder, wetter, 2nd Earth... err Kerbin... and all that O2 in the air... not plausible. Its probably too close for lakes of Methane/Ethane, too far for water... ammonia maybe?

Laythe is the innermost moon of Jool.  You could argue the oceans stay fluid due to tidal heating.

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Azimech

[regex]

29 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Maybe we can assume Kerbol is a very heavy metal rich star - something you'd expect in a universe much older than this one.

That still doesn't inform us how to scale it. Apparently Kerbol as given can't even maintain hydrostatic equilibrium.

[Azimech]

22 minutes ago, regex said:

That still doesn't inform us how to scale it. Apparently Kerbol as given can't even maintain hydrostatic equilibrium.

You've got a point there.

On 10/20/2017 at 7:35 PM, Jimmidii said:

Well, the oceans on Eve are (possibly) made of rocket fuel.

Could be that it's biological processes that created them.

Incidentally, Eve almost always ends up with life on it (permanently) in most of my saves...

Could be ... bacteria producing hydrazine.

But closer to home ... all rocket engines run on bacteria farts (oxygen) + something else anyway.

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Azimech

[Azimech]

On 10/21/2017 at 11:59 PM, ZooNamedGames said:

I'd like to see the Kerbol universe put into a super computer have it simulate what would happen to the oceans and world's in real time if we introduced correct physics and the effects of the microscopic system.

 

First we have to build Deep Thought.

And the answer is pretty useless anyway. I mean ... what is 6 times 7?

[Julian.]

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 12:11 PM, Azimech said:

First we have to build Deep Thought.

And the answer is pretty useless anyway. I mean ... what is 6 times 7?

6 Times 7 Is 42 According To My Computers Calculator. But Whats Deep Thought?

[Azimech]

5 minutes ago, Julian. said:

6 Times 7 Is 42 According To My Computers Calculator. But Whats Deep Thought?

This will help.

 

Oh and ... have fun. All the way. This gem has influenced comedy and sci-fi in ways you can't imagine (yet).

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Azimech

[GreenLight]

On 10/20/2017 at 6:52 PM, juvilado said:

I would love to see some life experiments in KSP. This is the only way to confirm or deny life in other planets. 

I think Eve deserves to have some kind of life, but that's up to the developpers (and modders, hehe).

PS: Still haven't seen animal life in Kerbin so far. Where are they hidding?

There must've been life on other planets before since the easter eggs.

[juvilado]

19 hours ago, GreenLight said:

There must've been life on other planets before since the easter eggs.

That's a point, of course.

 

[Helmetman]

 

On ‎24‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 5:11 PM, Azimech said:

First we have to build Deep Thought.

And the answer is pretty useless anyway. I mean ... what is 6 times 7?

Your real life age?

On topic:

Eve-ill
The first syllable in the word 'Evil" is Eve....il
Evil = Live (spelled backwards) because Evil is the polarity of Life.

So if Eve's name is the first syllable in 'Evil' and its hot and crushing out there beyond any surface climate compared to any other planet then what do you figure?
 

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Helmetman