Comnet Jool

[bjerrang]

So , im on my way to jool.

My first polar jool comnet crashed into laythe.

 

This is the setup i use on duna with excellent coverage. 

Big relays on polar , small relays on equatorial evenly spaced.

 

Any ideas for jool?

I have 1 ship with 2 big relays inbound with alot of dV to manuver on jool. 

Then 4 ships with 3 small relays ( one for pol as my spacestation and refueling will be here)

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by bjerrang

[Plusck]

I try for minimal numbers of relays, since each added craft (especially relays) seems to slow my game a bit more.

So I just have two of the largest relays in the Jool system. One in a nearly-polar orbit around Jool between Laythe and Vall. The other in a polar orbit around Poll. And my mothership carries a 2g relay + scanner probe around with it. I didn't give my relays a ton of fuel, so the choice of orbit was restricted by what was easily feasible.

Yes, this means that there is a good chance that one side of each moon is eclipsed or facing the wrong way for coverage at any given time, but never for too long and that dockable mobile 2G relay can park in a polar-cum-molniya orbit wherever operations are, for guaranteed sunny-side connection.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Plusck

[Geschosskopf]

3 hours ago, bjerrang said:

Any ideas for jool?

Well, assuming you have something that can link to Jool (either direct from Kerbin with Tracking Station upgrades or relays from Kerbin to intermediate planet(s) to Jool) the then you have 2 potential communications blocks.  #1 is the moon your ship is at, which means that moon needs 1 or more relays in its orbit, depending on how much you want to do there.  #2 is Jool itself because every few hours/days, the Joolian moons.  But that doesn't last long so if you can wait on it, there's no real need to be able to talk to the far side of Jool.

However, if you want to be sure and never worry about Jool being in the way, the put some polar relays in Jool orbit.  They don't have to be in all that eccentric polar orbits if you have 2 of them, but if only 1, then put it as highly eccentric as a reasonable amount of dV will get you.  Then, at least most of time, you'll be able to talk to the far side of Jool.

[Spricigo]

Well, you have a plan and already sent the vessels...I guess you need to stick with your plan, at least by now. You may send something later to fix any significant flaw.

[bjerrang]

Ill try to be more spesific.  My 2 big relays , what kind of orbit , polar , equatorial , eccentric  do they need to have on jool to get good coverage and not crash into other moons. ap and pe altitudes would be great. 

I have comnet on dres duna eve moho eeloo. 

 

[Plusck]

2 hours ago, bjerrang said:

Ill try to be more spesific.  My 2 big relays , what kind of orbit , polar , equatorial , eccentric  do they need to have on jool to get good coverage and not crash into other moons. ap and pe altitudes would be great. 

I have comnet on dres duna eve moho eeloo. 

 

Well, if they have a load of spare dv, and you plan to spread the smaller relays through the system, then the logical answer is opposing eccentric, inclined orbits (sort of Molniya-like) around Jool.

It doesn't have to be a Molniya orbit since you don't care about what you see on the surface of Jool. You would probably be best making them much more eccentric so they spend even less time actually whipping around Jool Pe. And you don't need them going so high above the poles either: you just need them angling in sharply enough so that they never run the risk of being snagged by Laythe. Pe would be much closer in than Laythe, Ap somewhere above Tylo I guess and well above/below the system's orbital plane.

Something like this:

The rationale?

• the 100G relay can see a single Communotron 16 from the distance from Jool to beyond Pol's orbit (about 220 Mm). Tylo's orbit is about 70Mm SMA. Bop 130-160 Mm. Therefore each one of the two relays, when near Ap, can see a single communotron anywhere in the system except for the furthest third of Pol's orbit;
• the only real concern for eclipses is Jool itself. With two relays you can't entirely avoid having them both eclipsed at some point in time, but it will be rare and very short-lived;
• with the exception of Pol, you'll have direct coverage of all of the moons' north and south poles the vast majority of the time;
• the inner moons will be covered on both sides the majority of the time;
• looking from above, their eccentricity should be at right-angles to Bop's eccentricity, so that Bop doesn't lose coverage at Ap.

This just leaves the outward-facing sides of Tylo, Bop and Pol without direct coverage. There's not a lot you can do about that, but that's where you just need to use the smaller relays in orbit around the moons you're interested in. Since Pol is the most useful place to have a mining and refuelling base (IMO), I'd repeat the same opposing-eccentric-incliined orbit thing with a duo of small relays there.

But that's just me. Maybe there are smarter solutions out there...

 

[Geschosskopf]

12 hours ago, bjerrang said:

Ill try to be more spesific.  My 2 big relays , what kind of orbit , polar , equatorial , eccentric  do they need to have on jool to get good coverage and not crash into other moons. ap and pe altitudes would be great. 

I have comnet on dres duna eve moho eeloo. 

The purpose of having relays orbiting Jool itself is if you happen to need to talk when the moon you're at is on the far side of Jool from Kerbin.  So put the relays anywhere they'll provide an LOS to the far side of Jool (most of the time).

In general, if you have 2 big relays for Jool, have them in polar orbits as eccentric as 2000-3000ms will make them.  Have 1 go up, the other day, and have them 180^ out of phase so when one is at Ap, the other is at Pe (more or less), but most of the time both will be well above/below the plane of the moons.  Problem solved.

Alternatively, you can put 1 big relay in a big, circular, fairly inclined orbit around Jool.  By big, say with the orbit intersecting the plane of the moons between Vall and Tylo, or between Tylo and Bop.  By "fairly inclined", say 45^ or so.  More if you want, but that's really all you need.  Then most of the time, you'll have a clear shot from this relay to the far side of Jool, either above, below, or beside Jool.

[Spricigo]

12 hours ago, bjerrang said:

Ill try to be more spesific.  My 2 big relays , what kind of orbit , polar , equatorial , eccentric  do they need to have on jool to get good coverage and not crash into other moons. ap and pe altitudes would be great.

@Geschosskopf and @Plusck covered that well. But I'd like to point out that you should have that decided before launching your satellites.

There are several ways to setup comment, but each call for a different assortment (amount and type) of satellites. After launching 12 short range relays is a bit too late to consider an arrangement where you have use for only 4-5 of those.