Labs - Give less data per experiment

[MaximumThrust]

I guess everyone agrees that labs are overpowered as f***. I'm using Play Your Way, and wanted to nerf them before started using in my current save game.

I think the better way is simple to reduce the amount of "data" each experiment gives me, so I would need a ton of experiments to give a decent amount of science, encouraging exploration. But I'm having no success trying to edit the values in the .cfg. I tried editing the values in bold/red and it has no effect. The data and science capacity take effect without problems.

Any ideia why and what I could do?

Thanks!!

Spoiler

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleScienceLab
        containerModuleIndex = 0
        dataStorage = 750
        crewsRequired = 1
        canResetConnectedModules = True
        canResetNearbyModules = True
        interactionRange = 5
        SurfaceBonus = 0.1
        ContextBonus = 0.25
        homeworldMultiplier = 0.1
        RESOURCE_PROCESS
        {
            name = ElectricCharge
            amount = 10
        }
    }

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleScienceConverter
        dataProcessingMultiplier = 0.5 // Multiplier to data processing rate and therefore science rate
        scientistBonus = 0.25    //Bonus per scientist star - need at least one! So 0.25x - 2.5x 
        researchTime = 7        //Larger = slower.  Exponential!
        scienceMultiplier = 5    //How much science does data turn into?
        scienceCap = 500        //How much science can we store before having to transmit?        
        powerRequirement = 5    //EC/Sec to research
        ConverterName = #autoLOC_502055 //#autoLOC_502055 = Research
        StartActionName = #autoLOC_502056 //#autoLOC_502056 = Start Research
        StopActionName = #autoLOC_502057 //#autoLOC_502057 = Stop Research
    }

 

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by MaximumThrust

[Streetwind]

dataProcessingMultiplier is just a second value to adjust research speed, since researchTime only takes integers and each whole number step has a huge effect. You'd use dataProcessingMultiplier to finetune the research speed you want; it has no effect on how much science you get in total. Just how fast you get it.

The lab works by first converting an experiment into data. You get exactly as much data as the experiment is worth in science points as a base value, which is then modified by SurfaceBonus, ContextBonus, and homeworldMultiplier. Though they look like they work the same way, they do not; the former two are indeed a bonus, and can never reduce the amount of data gained, only increase it; and the last one is indeed a multiplier, and totally will reduce data gained. But only when you're sitting on the surface of your homeworld. Anywhere else, there is no way to reduce the amount of data you gain to less than the amount of science the converted experiment is worth.

So the only way to reduce the output of the lab is to lower scienceMultiplier, as you tried to do. However, there's a trick here. That field, just like researchTime, only takes integers. Try putting anything other than a whole number there, and it gets flat-out ignored. This, in turn, means that the lowest possible number you can assign is 1, which - combined with the paragraph above - means that the lowest possible output you can set the MPL to yield is the science value of the original experiment. In other words, the MPL, when nerfed to the lowest performance possible, will still double an experiment's yield (one copy returned home, one copy processed).

After you made this change, you will probably realize that the lab suddenly slowed to a crawl. After all, you changed nothing about the rate that data is processed - you only changed the multiplier to the result of data processing. And so, even though the lab runs at the same speed as before, you get science way, way more slowly. You now have two options: 1.) increase dataStorage, because the lab runs faster the higher the amount of data stored is; 2.) use researchTime and/or dataProcessingMultiplier to tune the speed at which data is consumed.

The problem with option 1 is that the lab may run properly if full, but takes forever to run completely empty. The problem with option 2 is that the lab finishes its assigned work in a timely manner, but if you also increase dataStorage, it will make the lab get very fast when filled to the brim. You will have to find a balance between the two that you're comfortable with.

 

And for what it's worth: we have an excellent repository of knowledge where you can look this sort of thing up. Find the third link in my signature  

Edited February 26, 2018 by Streetwind

[MaximumThrust]

@Streetwind

Wow, thats much more info than I was expecting! 

Sadly I cannot reduce scienceMultiplier more than 1, that would be a good way. Will have to think in a way to balance them.

What do you think of putting a huge data capacity and a extremely slow research time? So for the labs to be useful I'll need to put a lot of experiments in it - the more, the better. So I could focus on less labs, and make them less disposable. Will need help with suggestions for the values.

[Tyko]

I balanced them by lowering scienceMultiplier to 1 and then I have a roleplay rule that i can only process any given experiment once in a lab. I put a lab around the mun, run all the science I want, and never have another lab process Mun science...it's easy.

[MaximumThrust]

On 2/26/2018 at 9:02 PM, Tyko said:

I balanced them by lowering scienceMultiplier to 1 and then I have a roleplay rule that i can only process any given experiment once in a lab. I put a lab around the mun, run all the science I want, and never have another lab process Mun science...it's easy.

That was exacly what I did in my last save. One lab in orbit around Kerbin, one lab landed in each planet or moon (almost write "mun", I guess I'm playing too much KSP). Only process the experiments related to there.

But I had two problems with that:

1. Could not easily upgrade the bases or stations, have multiple bases, or retire the old ones. Had to keep the same old lab. That was a huge problem when Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux came out. Also prevented me from using cool labs like the one in Feline Rovers.

2. Cannot keep track of what experiments I proceeded or not. I tried to always take two copies and use [x]Science!, but that was a huge pain, and I always ended messing it up.

In this save I'm using Play Your Way, And discovered it don't add founds for the science in the lab, only experiments. I like to start the game with everything unlocked, so science is useless right from the start. For that I discovered this two mods and Strategia:

I can use the labs and the science to train the Kerbals or buy temporary strategies. So I can train them this way, or investing in pilots and engineers (because of ISRU and Life-Support) to visit distant bodies. Also use "fuel efficient pilots" to give them more utility.

I guess with all this mods the game is balanced, the labs will not be overpowered, and all the classes of kerbals will be equally relevant.

[Tyko]

1 hour ago, MaximumThrust said:

But I had two problems with that:

1. Could not easily upgrade the bases or stations, have multiple bases, or retire the old ones. Had to keep the same old lab. That was a huge problem when Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux came out. Also prevented me from using cool labs like the one in Feline Rovers.

2. Cannot keep track of what experiments I proceeded or not. I tried to always take two copies and use [x]Science!, but that was a huge pain, and I always ended messing it up

Yea...didn't say it was perfect   Really though, but the time you're replacing a Mun base with a new SSPX one you're probably far enough along on the tech tree that accidentally adding a couple hundred points from duplicate experiments won't kill you. Note that I also reduced my science lab output to 1 science point per data point processed...so an extra surface sample isn't going to change my world.

For me, I put an orbital science station around the Mun. I do a bunch of landings and bring it up to the lab. There's really no point in building another lab there ever. The only reason I'd replace the station would be for an entirely new purpose like a fuel depot and that doesn't need a lab.