Pan-Kerbal Super Sonic Transportation Challenge!!!

[ssTALONps]

As the age of space dawned, so the need for faster transportation...

While the good ol' Koeing K-747 and Kirbus K-340 provided reliable long range air transport service, they were too slow...

The legendary SST Koncorde, on the other hand, was fast but its range was limited...

So many of the Kerbal aerospace engineers began to think; why not design a SST capable of circumnavigation???

Thus the beginning of Pan-Kerbal Super Sonic Transportation challenge!!!

1. Cruise speed must exceed Mach 1.5 or 500m/s (cruise speed is defined as speed at MET 5 mins)!!!

2. Your SST must be capable of Eastward (heading 90 degrees) circumnavigation and successfully land at KSC runway (slight over shooting allowed)!!!

3. Stock only, except Mech Jeb or mods used as aesthetic (like Nav Lights)!!!

4. Use only Mark 3 Shuttle Cockpit as command pod!!!

5. Cruise altitude must be within 10km~30km and you must reach it within 5 minutes!!!

6. Maximum number of engines is 6, to reduce cost!!!

7. You may have drop tanks but they must be separated over large bodies of water and cannot have engines attached to themselves!!!

8. You can use rocket engines but are you serious???

9. NO GLITCHES OR HAX!!!

Score is purely based on total elapsed time after landing and full stop. Read below for more information about application form.

{Screenshot of your aircraft on runway}

{Screenshot of your aircraft at cruise speed}

{Screenshot of your aircraft jettisoning the drop tanks over ocean (optional)}

{Screenshot of your aircraft at final approach after circumnavigation}

{Screenshot of Flight Result page (F3) after landing and full stop}

Name of Aircraft:

Total Time Elapsed:

Designer's Comment (optional):

You can provide link to album instead of posting individual screenshots!!!

Look below for sample application form!!!

http://imgur.com/a/SUl0y#0

Name of Aircraft: Tachyon EL

Total Time Elapsed: 1 hr 48 mins 15 secs

Designer's Comment: The 4-engined Tachyon EL PK-SST has range over +4000km. Cruise altitude is 15km, initial cruise speed is 505m/s and 650m/s after drop tank separation.

1. Archangel Lucifer - Stingray Supercruiser, 0:58:00

2.

3.

4.

5.

My record - Tachyon EL, 1:48:15

Edited August 29, 2012 by ssTALONps

[ssTALONps]

come on playas, gimme a brand new SST design!!!

[Xenotheos]

I'm rather new to the game, and even newer to plane building (finding it much harder than rockets) but i've been working on this today. I got a 4 engine model with enough fuel for the trip but I could not hit 500 m/s cruising speed up at 14km, I was maxing out in the low/mid 400s. I've tried tweaking the design but am having trouble with balance and takeoff with 6 and 5 engine modifications. I expect that tomorrow I'll have a working design though, that's the plan at least.

[ssTALONps]

I've tried tweaking the design but am having trouble with balance and takeoff with 6 and 5 engine modifications.

I personally think 4 engines used in cruise is upper limit for PK-SST design; more than that it'll run out of fuel and less than that it won't achieve Mach 1.5 cruise speed...

but you can use 5 or 6 engines for initial cruise flight, burn off excessive fuel and later turn one or two of them off...

or you might wanna use 'Skip Glide' technique; I'm currently working on this design using one aerospike engine attached to Tachyon EL... just be careful not to exceed maximum altitude limit of 30km!!!

[Archangel Lucifer]

I've been working on this challenge today and am curious to know if the throttle should always be at 100% because of the fuel bug thingy? If not then in the current version this challenge will be somewhat easier than it should be. At 100% throttle my ship only makes it about halfway around Kerbin but that is with all 6 engines burning. if I add more fuel I can't attain the required cruise speed on time.

[ssTALONps]

I've been working on this challenge today and am curious to know if the throttle should always be at 100% because of the fuel bug thingy? If not then in the current version this challenge will be somewhat easier than it should be. At 100% throttle my ship only makes it about halfway around Kerbin but that is with all 6 engines burning. if I add more fuel I can't attain the required cruise speed on time.

yes you can't use that hacky fuel consumption bug!!! but you are allowed to deactivate some engines in flight to save fuel as long as you maintain cruise speed lower limit...

[DEADBEEF]

Have you revised your own entry now you've realised you were using hacked fuel tanks with 1000L capacity?

[Xenotheos]

I'm finding rule 1, with the time limit on reaching cruise speed, to be my biggest limiting factor currently as I either burn too much fuel to get that fast that soon or I set up a ton of fuel tanks to counteract this and have problems with weight distribution at some point in the flight from take off to 15km up.

[Arthree]

I call BS. I put 5 engines and 6 400L LFTs in drop tanks on my plane. It took only 19:45 for me to burn through all 2400L of fuel in those. How exactly are you lasting 48 minutes on 6 Mk1 tanks?

Edit: My attempt is currently burning about 0.2L/s/engine with 4 engines running at cruise (14k, 510m/s). In a best case scenario, you went for 48 minutes on the 6 tanks of gas you took in drop tanks, therefore burning 48 minutes * 60 seconds/minute * 4 engines * 0.2L/s/engine = 2304L of fuel. I don't think the Mk1 tanks you're using can hold 384L each.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Arthree

[rebelcommando1807]

Those are the older MK1 fuselage C7 tanks you're using, if I am seeing them right.

And I am trying a very similar design as I'm typing this, and it's odd just how long two of the MK1 fuselages are lasting for 5 of the heavier engines at 13.5 km up. It'l take some flight plan tweaking, but I might have something that works wonders. More in about two hours.

EDIT: Alright, halfway through the droptanks (4x MK1 fuselage) at 16:23.

EDIT: 24:48 for all but one tank per pod.

EDIT: Droptanks dry and dropped at 29:12.

EDIT: Also managed to turn off two engines and still maintain >500m/s velocity.

EDIT: Screwed everything up about 43:40 in (Started tumbling out of control), but I was down to the last of 4 MK3 fuselages, and I doubt the 2-3 adapter would last much longer. I only managed to get about.. Say, a third of the way around the planet?

Edited August 20, 2012 by rebelcommando1807

[rebelcommando1807]

Posting again for attachments.

Attaching the first .craft, as well as a second one that doesn't quite meet the requirements of speed by 4-5 minutes, but has 4 more MK1s and 1 more MK3 fuselage. Hopefully this gets me further.

All you need for both, mod-wise, is MechJeb.

Edited August 20, 2012 by rebelcommando1807

[ssTALONps]

@DEADBEEF I'm currently working on brand new design that utilizes aerospike engines for skip glide, but ran into some problems atm

@Arthree yes I accidently used old C7 Mk 3 fuselage... but I think I can make new design capable of circumnavigation and even more!

@rebelcommando1807 thx for sharing your awesome craft! it's remarkably similar to my design and I'm waiting for your final result! will you be the first one to achieve super sonic circumnavigation?

[Archangel Lucifer]

I'm determined to do this without MechJeb and without using the 'rocket' fuel tanks (as only the Mk parts should be acceptable for fuel imo). I'm pretty sure I have a successful design but it will have to wait until tomorrow for final testing.

[ssTALONps]

I'm determined to do this without MechJeb and without using the 'rocket' fuel tanks (as only the Mk parts should be acceptable for fuel imo). I'm pretty sure I have a successful design but it will have to wait until tomorrow for final testing.

lol you can actually use rocket fuel tanks since KSP does not have separated fuel feature atm... I'm using rocket fuel tanks for my new design!!!

[rebelcommando1807]

thx for sharing your awesome craft! it's remarkably similar to my design and I'm waiting for your final result! will you be the first one to achieve super sonic circumnavigation?

The first one doesn't have nearly enough fuel, and the second one doesn't hit 500 m/s until the tanks are mostly dry. It does keep a steady speed of over 440, though, if I recall correctly.

This is actually a good challenge, in my opinion, as it's balancing fuel consumption, power, and the amount of fuel that you have. In many cases, the reason why planes that can circumnavigate don't go so quickly is so that they don't eat up all their fuel. Also, it's a shame that the fuel bug's there, otherwise I could do well with telling it to keep the speed to, say, 550 or so, and save fuel that way.

Also, the similarities were intentional, I was originally trying to recreate your design for a proof of concept, in a way. There are probably far better designs out there, and I will fiddle with a different one myself here in a bit. The big issue, in my mind, with this challenge, is simply how long it takes to do it.. Which, in a lot of cases, can be a limiting factor. Perhaps you could have a different category for those that do suborbital hops for their flights?

Edited August 20, 2012 by rebelcommando1807

[ssTALONps]

This is actually a good challenge, in my opinion, as it's balancing fuel consumption, power, and the amount of fuel that you have.

thx!!! and I do plan to add Hyper Sonic Transport challenge after fuel consumption bug is addressed (hopefully 0.17 update)...

the PK-HST challenge will require participants to design high altitude aircraft capable of cruising above Mach 3 with maximum altitude of 30km...

I know in RL hypersonic indicates speed above Mach 5 but hey, that's 1700m/s!!!

at this speed and altitude people can't use jet engines; they gotta use aerospike rocket engines with low throttle setting...

but as long as damn fuel consumption bug is present, I can't add this challenge atm...

[erkle64]

I managed three quarters of the way around with this one, it uses 6 LFTs for the drop tanks, but it's not quite fast enough. It just takes soooo long to test it without warp.

There is a plugin for fixing the fuel consumption bug.

[rebelcommando1807]

There is a plugin for fixing the fuel consumption bug.

I know of that one, but, as far as I'm aware. it only works for standard liquid engines, not the atmospheric ones. Unless the atmospheric ones aren't affected by the bug. In which case, my bad.

EDIT: Testing now.. 3:08 for the MK2-MK1 adapter, one engine, full throttle.

EDIT: And the same for two engines, half throttle. Good news, the atmo engines have no issue with this bug.

Edited August 21, 2012 by rebelcommando1807

[Archangel Lucifer]

Hmm, can anyone else confirm the absence of the fuel bug from atmospheric engines? Also, regarding the use of the rocket liquid fuel tanks - I'm aware that atm there is no separation of atmospheric and rocket fuel tanks but I think that the rocket ones are way too big (400L compared to 150L for the Mk 1 and 2 and 225L I think for Mk3).

[erkle64]

The atmo engines are bug free. I'm struggling to get past two thirds of the way around using 8 LFTs as drop tanks, so jet fuel tanks would be near impossible without using the old Mk 3 with 1000 fuel.

[ssTALONps]

The atmo engines are bug free. I'm struggling to get past two thirds of the way around using 8 LFTs as drop tanks, so jet fuel tanks would be near impossible without using the old Mk 3 with 1000 fuel.

thx for confirming atmo engines are bug free but I think they burn fuel LOT faster than RL engines... I'm even considering to add rule stating you can use old C7 fuel tanks...

[Xenotheos]

Been trying to do this with no drop tanks, it's really hard to get a stable configuration. I think I'm overbuilding as my models are ranging from the high 40 tons into the mid 50 tons. I also noticed that I was using around 9 small liquid fuel tanks and that 9 small = 1 large in terms of fuel but the large nets 0.25 less tons of dry weight so I've been trying to incorporate that.

My current most stable design is an early one that got me over 1/3 of the way around while keeping all 6 engines running for far too long.

My latest design is having some trouble after I get it higher into the atmosphere like 5 minutes into the flight mechjeb rotates it about 45 degrees in order to keep the heading I've set, and it just continues to fly that way.

[ssTALONps]

My latest design is having some trouble after I get it higher into the atmosphere like 5 minutes into the flight mechjeb rotates it about 45 degrees in order to keep the heading I've set, and it just continues to fly that way.

the cause of problem I think is lack of vertical stabilizer to control yaw force... you might wanna put some control fins vertically... other than that it's kinda awesome!!! tri-plane FTW!!!

[Archangel Lucifer]

Well this is proving to be pretty much an impossible challenge atm, especially since I am trying to use only the Mk parts for fuel but I have a ship that can travel 1561.6 km at full throttle (just past those 2 lakes on the big continent about halfway around the planet) in about 45 mins and I'm sure I could get at least an hour or more flight time if I keep my cruise speed at 500m/s.

While starting off reasonably small this ship has turned into quite the beast as I came to realise just how much fuel would be needed. I have 2 pairs of drop tanks each made up of 3 mk2 parts and the main body is made from Mk3 but it's still not enough. After the drop tanks are used up they - along with the two engines attached to them are separated from the main craft which then continues with 4 engines only. I fly this thing manually (with some help from the avionics module) and without MechJeb.

Perhaps when the ram air intake parts become functional I'll be able to get it further but atm I can't see how I can carry more fuel without missing the 3 min 500m/s deadline.

Anyway here is my ship.

<a href="http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/r540/ArchangeLucifer/?action=view&current=be17a651.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r540/ArchangeLucifer/be17a651.png" border="0" alt="Stingray Supercruiser Hanger"></a>

<a href="http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/r540/ArchangeLucifer/?action=view&current=7951a686.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r540/ArchangeLucifer/7951a686.png" border="0" alt="Stingray Supercruiser Cruise Speed"></a>

Is anyone else even remotely close to getting all the way around Kerbin while keeping the 3 min 500m/s deadline?

[thirstyemu]

Is anyone else even remotely close to getting all the way around Kerbin while keeping the 3 min 500m/s deadline?

It's actually a 5 minute deadline to the 500m/s cruising speed, should give you a bit more leeway with takeoff!