Nissan Leaf, How big are the costs of using an electric car Nissan Leaf?

[NewtSoup]

What Car Magazine reckons £450 on your electricity bill every 10,000 miles so that's about 4.5 pence per mile depending on your supplier.  Compare this to petrol or diesel which come in around 12 pence per mile.

This is for charging at home.

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by NewtSoup

[Zeiss Ikon]

Just as with gasoline/diesel, electric energy costs differ in different locations.  If you live in, say, Los Angeles, it'll cost you more to drive an EV than it would in, say, Seattle (where most of the power is from hydroelectric, with a little nuclear thrown in).  If you live in New York City, it'll be worse yet, but then fossil fuels are high there, too.  Electric cars are almost always cheaper to operate than gasoline or diesel, but then there's that battery replacement (costs about as much as putting a new engine in a conventional car).

Bottom line, you have to do your own comparison on operating costs, but depending how the city rental system works, this may not even matter -- I read this as being a "drive when you need it" where you pay a monthly subscription and pick up the car at a charging station, drive where you need to go, park at another charging station, and continue on foot.  In that situation, operating costs are almost meaningless; it's only a question of what the rental subscription costs compared to taking public transit -- and how much time you save, compared to waiting for the bus/subway/train/taxi.

I don't see any reason a physician might refuse someone a license for Asperger's -- I'd been driving for twenty-five years before I was diagnosed, and my driving record was (and is) no worse than anyone else's.  I've had three speeding tickets since 1976, two accidents in the same time (neither disabling the car, never mind injuring anyone) (plus several motorcycle accidents when I was working as a courier).  Then again, I'm something of a borderline case -- much closer to Bill Gates than to Rain Man.

[PB666]

2 hours ago, Zeiss Ikon said:

 Electric cars are almost always cheaper to operate than gasoline or diesel, but then there's that battery replacement (costs about as much as putting a new engine in a conventional car).

This is a little disinformation, the same type people were giving me before I bought my Prius. But then I learned that people had 400,000 miles on their battery, and that the batteries were only a couple thousand dollars.

If I get 400,000 miles on my hybrid, im not going to freak out cause I needed to pay 2000$ for a battery.

Sure lithium ION batteries cost alot, but if you are driving the kind of miles that eventually wears the battery out, probably you are not going to care that it cost as much as a conventional car. 

People are afraid of what they don't understand.  So understand.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/02/the-200-000-mile-question-how-does-the-toyota-prius-hold-up/index.htm

Quote

Though the battery degradation data along with the accompanying analysis by Teslanomics is based only on a small overall sample set of Tesla owners, the results do align with real world data from a high mileage Model S that registered over 200k mi (322k km). Electric mobility company Tesloop reported a 6% loss in range after 200k miles of driving. https://www.teslarati.com/how-long-will-tesla-battery-last-degradation/

Quote

Do you really think that Tesla would provide 8-year unlimited miles warranties for a battery that only lasted 161k miles? No. There are test mule Model S that have over 500k miles on them with no issues. At that mileage, you will lose some range, but the batteries should still work. https://www.quora.com/How-long-in-miles-does-the-Tesla-EVs-battery-last

 

Here is the decision making that goes into purchase of any car.

WHat is the initial expense, the insurance cost, milage per year, repair cost per mile driven x milage per year, the types of miles (city or hiway), interest per year. What is the expected life (do you drive for 3 years or 30).
Then compute the amount cost per year.

If you mainly drive on the high-way https://automobiles.honda.com/civic-hatchback#specifications (30 city /39 highway)

If you have a family and carry stuff. https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/forester/index.html  (24 city /32 highway)

If you have a really big family. https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/suburban/2018/ (18 mpg)

If you have a crazy big family. (https://www.ford.com/trucks/transit-passenger-van-wagon/)  (you dont care about milage)

If you just need a do it all city/hiway car, mostly grocery shopping, retired couple with occasional guests. (https://www.toyota.com/prius/)

If you only drive in the city (Nissan Leaf) 151 mile range.   I would find an alternative, Nissan an me have issues. 

If you only drive in the city but you have alot of cash to blow and you want to have Elon Musk's children (Model 100D) 315 mile range.

If you have no money and will drive anything (Tata Nano) 25 mpg, what ever $2000 worth of rupies are. Has a nice convenient hole in the floor board in front of the drivers seat so you can pedal when the engine dies or runs out of gas.

And in case you are wondering, probably not, but this is what I drive.

 

(gets about the same milage as a Tata Nano), But unlike in Europe we don't put an outboard motor on the tailgate (oddly ours comes with a trailer hitch and a towing package for carrying a boat) and try to drive is across a lake, place it on the roof of a sky scraper and detonate it, if we did those things we would call it a Hilux.

 

 

 

[YNM]

12 hours ago, Zeiss Ikon said:

I don't see any reason a physician might refuse someone a license for Asperger's -- I'd been driving for twenty-five years before I was diagnosed, and my driving record was (and is) no worse than anyone else's.

I also don't see you suggesting stuff over amd over.

Do they know you have one though ?

 

Also, I've a bit of sentiment for good public transport, I'd say if it doesn't differ much from cars keep use that public transport, it's going to make things better in the far future... (yes I know you 'muricans having a bad headache understanding it).

[PB666]

2 hours ago, YNM said:

Also, I've a bit of sentiment for good public transport, I'd say if it doesn't differ much from cars keep use that public transport, it's going to make things better in the far future... (yes I know you 'muricans having a bad headache understanding it).

Note when I was working, I had two other people (sometimes 3) in a car pool in a Prius . . . . .beat that! Americans are not as wasteful as you think. (Note the motivation was not environmental, the parking fee for 3 individuals was 36$ per day versus 12$). 

Sure I indulge myself, but I deserve it, I kept my previous truck for 25 years. But typically I don't use a 4x4 to go buy eggs or go to the movies. The alternative is to walk a mile to the bus stop, pay 1.50, transfer to another bus to go the the store, then pay another 1.50 to take a ride back taking about 3 hours to do what I could do in a car in 20 minutes and at a fraction of the price.  I don't know about other places in the world but here access to good health (healthy food markets) is a matter of access to flexible transportation, typically the value places are not on easily accessed transportation corridors. So there is a trade off to be had, you can focus on the environment and otherwise suffer in a big US city or you can focus health. Even in Japan, the best places to shop for 'good' food required a car to access (pretty much) because the cost of going there is so high you plan your trips to hit several high value targets in a single day. I suppose you could hire a driver for a day.
 

[YNM]

3 minutes ago, PB666 said:

Note when I was working, I had two other people (sometimes 3) in a car pool in a Prius . . . . .beat that! Americans are not as wasteful as you think.

Better option would be reducing your car sizes and house sizes and road sizes, then tie up the cars to make trains and go walking.

Like, seriously, if a car becomes a daily necessity for the average people clearly something has gone terribly wrong.

[PB666]

4 hours ago, YNM said:

Better option would be reducing your car sizes and house sizes and road sizes, then tie up the cars to make trains and go walking.

Like, seriously, if a car becomes a daily necessity for the average people clearly something has gone terribly wrong.

Well the problem with the US if you compare it to say a European or Japanese city, in large regard. The oldest city in my state (not counting the two failed settlements) is San Antonio, roughly 350 years in age and for the first 200 years alot of population turnover do to lack of resources and constant attacks. The oldest city in Japan is over 2300 years in age, the oldest city in Europe is 3000 years in age. The oldest settlement in England is around 2500 years, the oldest city in France is about the same, the oldest city in Itally, older, spain, older . . . . The historic centers of civilization have had 10 times as long to reorganize there cities, not to mention war after war, fires, plagues, Earthquakes, Volcanoes.  

The place were I was raised a bedroom town was the intersection of a highway and a stage road, and the stages stopped being used 70 years before I was born. Things got spread out. So lets say I built a house in 1950, I had a well, me and my closest neighbor share water, the sewage system is distributed over the land so you want that as far from the well as possible.  . . . . . . . . .So one day you wake up and the land is worth a million dollar an acre and your house is worth nothing. And so a developer buys a lot and thinks I can maybe put two houses here (about 5% of the time) or build a really bigger house and sell it for 2 million dollars. That's how we get big houses. There is already a movement for people to move in dense housing mid and down town, its hard to convince people to buy a million dollar flat close to where they work where they can buy half million dollar mansion 20 miles outside of town. Its only after they experience congestion getting to work that they make those decisions.

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by PB666

[Zeiss Ikon]

I might also note that America is spread out, in large part, due to the nature of the land itself.  A significant fraction of our land won't support dense population.

We have one of the lowest population densities relative to our economy size (much of Russia is even more sparsely populated, but our economy is much larger than theirs) -- and there are a lot of places in the USA (and I don't even mean Alaska -- try Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, both Dakotas, parts of Kansas and Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, and Nevada -- likely more than 30% of the land area of the nation) where if your car breaks down, you've got an emergency on your hands, because you won't be able to walk anywhere to buy supplies in the time what you can carry will last -- and if you were just passing through, you likely won't even have enough water with you to get anywhere to get more.

I went to first grade in country where "jackrabbits carry lunch pails" -- so desolate anything that can't eat sagebrush and get along with very little water can't live there.  The nearest town larger than the town I lived in was 50 miles (80 km) away; the next one larger than was twice that distance.  Go the same distance west, instead of south, and you'd come to environs so desolate they tested a nuclear ramjet there and almost no one noticed.

Even our cities aren't dense by the standards of the rest of the world.

I drive 51-55 minutes each way for work, five days a week.  My 2015 Fiesta (3 1/2 years since I bought it) has 62,000+ miles, about 95,000 km.  I get 39-40 mpg (don't have the conversion to l/100 km handy); most weeks, I can buy gas the same time on the same day of the week as the previous week, 400+ miles (640+ km) later.

BTW, America has never (as far as I know) had a restriction on specifically Asperger's individuals driving -- but they didn't even recognize the syndrome here until 1979 (I was 19 then, had been driving for three years), and it was expunged from the reference in 2014, replaced by "Autistic Spectrum Disorder" as a catch-all for anyone from "unable to communicate effectively" to "genius IQ with some personality quirks."  An individual who isn't capable of making adult decisions likely will be under guardianship well into by-age adulthood, and would require a guardian's permission to attempt to obtain a driver's license (and hopefully wouldn't get that permission).  Individuals who can live as independent adults, and don't have a condition that may render them unable to control a car (like seizures, narcolepsy, or cataplexy, among others) may get a license if they can pass the (written and on-the-road) tests and pay the fees (which are much lower than in parts of Europe I know about).

[YNM]

2 hours ago, Zeiss Ikon said:

a condition that may render them unable to control a car (like seizures, narcolepsy, or cataplexy, among others)

That is actually much more severe than just asperger.

To quote from DVSA :

Quote

Fits, seizures or convulsions and driving

You must tell DVLA if you suffer from fits, seizures or convulsions.

And worse :

Quote

Epilepsy and driving

You must tell DVLA if you’ve had any epileptic attacks, seizures, fits or blackouts.

You must stop driving straight away.

You can be fined up to £1,000 if you don’t tell DVLA about a medical condition that affects your driving. You may be prosecuted if you’re involved in an accident as a result.

2 hours ago, Zeiss Ikon said:

might also note that America is spread out, in large part, due to the nature of the land itself.  A significant fraction of our land won't support dense population.

Well don't spread out then XD keep to your clearly fertile lands... otherwise get a farm !

Edited March 13, 2018 by YNM

[FleshJeb]

On 3/12/2018 at 7:57 PM, PB666 said:

 

 

Dude. 2008 4x2 Double Cab with TRD Rugged Trail Package. It's FUN. Why yes, that IS an A/C extension cord running from the inverter port in the bed through the rear slider. In a fun coincidence, this is from a trip to do the land surveying for the Tesla supercharging stations in Mt Shasta City, CA and Detroit, OR.

@Pawelk198604 My mother also thought I'd never be able to drive a manual transmission--I've owned several. Before you make any decisions, have a friend with an old car help you practice in an empty parking lot.

You will inevitably run into situations while driving where you'll be overwhelmed by sensory input; it happens to everybody. If you are aware of your limits and the limits of your car, and plan accordingly, you will be OK.

[Nibb31]

2 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

@Pawelk198604 My mother also thought I'd never be able to drive a manual transmission--I've owned several. Before you make any decisions, have a friend with an old car help you practice in an empty parking lot.

NO. DO NOT DO THIS.

Driving without a license, even on a parking lot, is highly illegal and, depending on the laws of your country, could put you in more trouble than it's worth. The laws in some countries can blacklist you from getting a license if you get caught driving without one.

Seriously, this discussion is highly dependent on national laws and regulations. Any advice given by people in other countries from you is going to be irrelevant and probably misleading.

[steve_v]

7 minutes ago, Nibb31 said:

Driving without a license, even on a parking lot, is highly illegal

Where I am, anyone can drive anything on private property. Paddock + Landrover 88 = Much entertainment. Think I was 12 at the time. Didn't even get it stuck.

[Nibb31]

18 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Where I am, anyone can drive anything on private property. Paddock + Landrover 88 = Much entertainment. Think I was 12 at the time. Didn't even get it stuck.

Where you are. Which does not necessarily apply to the OP. Also, a privately owned parking lot is not necessarily considered as private property when it comes to road regulations and insurance. What applies to where you are may be very different to where someone else is.

[Green Baron]

True, but not in a parking lot with public traffic. If you know someone who owns a farm one could practice there. Or automobile clubs can have practicing circuits where people can train, even with a (paid) instructor.

- ninja'd -

In some countries there are small licenses to drive cars with limited power and max. speed. OP must actually go to a doctor and driving school to get an answer to his questions. Which is as easy as going to a doctor and driving school and ask a simple question :-) Doctor: can i despite my deficiencies ? Driving school: would you ? Here's money !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJOz9BNwV4Y

 

[YNM]

2 hours ago, Nibb31 said:

Driving without a license, even on a parking lot, is highly illegal and, depending on the laws of your country, could put you in more trouble than it's worth.

Get a provisional driving license (UK) / Learner's permit (US).

 

Spoiler

Orr just do it anyway, but I'm not hold responsible for the outcome.

 

__

5 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

@Pawelk198604 My mother also thought I'd never be able to drive a manual transmission--I've owned several. Before you make any decisions, have a friend with an old car help you practice in an empty parking lot.

Not in the EU mate, not in the EU.

 

In the inside of Russia, now I won't ask anything.