Calling occupants of interplanetary craft ( Or just Ubuntu Users)

[NewtSoup]

Well, I just had a quick play with the Ubuntu 18.04 live and I think that is going to go on my new hard drive.  I previously considered Steam OS but it just seems like a whole load of trouble unless you want a "console" that can only play Steam Games.

Going to have a look at

OK.. so windows is doing MORE updates and now it's forcing a distribution update on me even though I just told it "not now" and I can't stop it.  This isn't going to be a fun evening.

[NewtSoup]

 Still updating windows!

[steve_v]

"Just works" + "Supported by everyone"  = Ubuntu.

Not my preference, but my preference is a long way from just works... Unless you count beng dropped into a barebones console environment and left to set the rest up yourself as "works".

I'd suggest Debian, but you probably won't like downgrading to the fossilised software versions it tends to ship with If you're used to Ubuntu.

I feel your anguish WRT the hardware problems, the last time I had 2 drives fail in the same week I lost ~10TB. It sucks (and so does RAID5).

Edited March 20, 2018 by steve_v

[Nuke]

10 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

Aaand I'm back in Windows

I can't believe both my main drives have failed in the same week.

Lost my media collection, lost my save games, everything will have to be installed again on a new drive

I just hope the HD103 can be spun up one more time to rescue my KSP saves   and the documents folders

So now I'm on Windows 10 on a 256gb SSD.

I guess I'll be playing Elite Dangerous for a bit.

 

In a year, after windows has finished insisting on updating absolutely barking everything.  

<insert "Girl from Ipanema" here>

i woulnt be so quick to give up on your drives. sata cabling gets iffy after awhile so try things like the "wiggle it" technique or try different cables/ports. its the kind of bs that made me switch to m.2 (hopefully those connectors arent as bad). the number of working drives that i own that i had previously thought dead is astounding. 

[Nuke]

10 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

Just ordered a Samsung 500 GB 860 EVO Sata III 64L V NAND from Amazon.  Can't afford it but there we go.

Wondered about going the mSata route but it's an unknown to me so I'll stick with what I know

 

So now, what distro do I install?  I'm so used to Debian based, I know a lot of people don't like the Debian based stuff but it does just work!  I find it reliable and well supported for gaming.  So I think Ubuntu 16.04 will go back on.  However if anyone has some neat ideas then do let me know!

i think msata was replaced by m.2. im using an m.2 now but in sata mode through an adapter. i figured when i got around to upgrading my mobo (and everything else for that matter) id get one with an m.2 port and not have to buy the drive. future proofing. you just need to know about keying and protocol. but it seems a lot of the drives are b+m keyed and so can fit either slot. can operate over either sata or pcie which is nice and provides reverse compatibility options when you need them. theres this new fangled nvme protocol that is supposed to be really fast but mobo support was lacking last i looked and those drives were really expensive anyway. the real benefit i think (when i get it plugged into an actual mobo anyway) is no damn cables to block airflow and provide points of failure, oh and theres speed too.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Nuke

[NewtSoup]

Yeah the m2 boards are quite a bit longer and my mobo won't take them but it will take the longer of the mSata, however I erred on the side of caution and just went  with the reliable Samsung Evo :).

As for OS - Yep it's going to be Ubuntu 16.04 LTS again but I may have a go at replacing unity with Gnome 3 while I have a clean install an nothing to lose except time.

[NewtSoup]

2 hours ago, steve_v said:

"Just works" + "Supported by everyone"  = Ubuntu.

Not my preference, but my preference is a long way from just works... Unless you count beng dropped into a barebones console environment and left to set the rest up yourself as "works".

I'd suggest Debian, but you probably won't like downgrading to the fossilised software versions it tends to ship with If you're used to Ubuntu.

I feel your anguish WRT the hardware problems, the last time I had 2 drives fail in the same week I lost ~10TB. It sucks (and so does RAID5).

I'm very happy to learn how the entire OS is glued together over time, and indeed I am doing, but I want an out of the box solution with full desktop environment :).  I'll grow into a full on junkie over time for the moment though I'm just going back to what I know but have a go at replacing Unity with Gnome as I said above.  

[steve_v]

3 hours ago, Nuke said:

the number of working drives that i own that i had previously thought dead is astounding.

I've not had many problems with sata cables / connectors... since I learned not to buy the cheapest ones I could find. Also: cables with locking connectors.

 

1 hour ago, NewtSoup said:

I'm very happy to learn how the entire OS is glued together over time

Ubuntu should be just fine for that too. You'll tend to learn the Debian way, but that's not a bad thing.
I like my OS just-so, but I can certainly understand the desire for a usable desktop from the beginning, which is why I didn't suggest Gentoo. Or LFS for that matter.

1 hour ago, NewtSoup said:

replacing Unity with Gnome

The other "flavours" such as Kubuntu or Xubuntu are nice too, if you haven't already looked at them.
If you have a little apt-foo, switching desktops (or even installing all of them) is also quite doable.

Edited March 21, 2018 by steve_v

[PB666]

11 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

Well, I just had a quick play with the Ubuntu 18.04 live and I think that is going to go on my new hard drive.  I previously considered Steam OS but it just seems like a whole load of trouble unless you want a "console" that can only play Steam Games.

Going to have a look at

OK.. so windows is doing MORE updates and now it's forcing a distribution update on me even though I just told it "not now" and I can't stop it.  This isn't going to be a fun evening.

Yeah, you have to get the February update, then you can throttle the dl. I hate win 10 passionately.

[NewtSoup]

Linux is the gaming platform of the future!

[Nuke]

23 hours ago, steve_v said:

I've not had many problems with sata cables / connectors... since I learned not to buy the cheapest ones I could find. Also: cables with locking connectors.

the ones i paid extra for dont seem to be that much better quality than the ones that come with your mobo. 

8 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

Linux is the gaming platform of the future!

i wish it were true. but every time i give it a shot there is much swearing at wine and the eventual giving up that comes with it. i think the most success ive had was on my pi tablet, where i got emeulators for 16 bit games, and a lot of ported games from the 90s that compile just fine on the pi.

[steve_v]

8 minutes ago, Nuke said:

i wish it were true.

It's true for me, I don't have a windows install any more.
I only buy new games that run natively, and all my old games run just fine in dosbox/wine/playonlinux.

[NewtSoup]

8 hours ago, steve_v said:

It's true for me, I don't have a windows install any more.
I only buy new games that run natively, and all my old games run just fine in dosbox/wine/playonlinux.

True for me too.   Most of the games I want to play have native linux clients.  Of those that don't, only two won't work in Wine - and recently I found out how to get Fallout 4 working in Wine - though I need to build it from scratch with a few patches in place ( wine that is not fallout 4)

 

[PB666]

5 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

True for me too.   Most of the games I want to play have native linux clients.  Of those that don't, only two won't work in Wine - and recently I found out how to get Fallout 4 working in Wine - though I need to build it from scratch with a few patches in place ( wine that is not fallout 4)

 

I have one game, KSP, and the only thing I do is play with parts I have made, so when I play its more about building parts than anything.

The problem is that when I make a really great part KSP upgrades and it doesn't work anymore.

[NewtSoup]

I have quite a few games.  May favourite genre is open world. So, elder scroll series and fallouts.   Though i like blades of the emperor too, a real time stealth strategy.  Shadows of Mordor is also fun but I need a better controller than the steam controller - it is awful. 

I need to reignite my programming passion and relearn java and get to grips with c++ and mono

[Green Baron]

1 hour ago, NewtSoup said:

I have quite a few games.  May favourite genre is open world. So, elder scroll series and fallouts.   Though i like blades of the emperor too, a real time stealth strategy.  Shadows of Mordor is also fun but I need a better controller than the steam controller - it is awful. 

I need to reignite my programming passion and relearn java and get to grips with c++ and mono

I id so last year and dug into C++. Before i did a little C but i never was a great programmer. I tried a little renderer with OpenGL/C++ but the work rests since a few months.

C++ is built-in in Linux, no need for mono. If you like an IDE (which really isn't necessary at all, at least for small to medium projects, it just hides the makefiles from you and bloats the stuff on the hard disk) then Eclipse CDE, QT Creator (or so, but it doesn't create anything, one still must program :-)) or (what apparently most use who use an IDE) Code::Blocks. All are in the debian repositories.

If i find people to join in the thrive might get stronger :-)

Btw., when your new system is upset you can try to recover the data. Maybe not all is lost ...

Yeah, i loved the elder scrolls series as well, number three (that one with the nerevarine) was actually the first game i really was addicted to :-)

[Nuke]

ive done a lot of c++ and some c programming. i tend to avoid vms and interpreted languages but im really good with lua, so its what i go to when i need a gui or something to talk to an arduino, i have the stub of a game engine written in lua but i dont expect to finish it.

[NewtSoup]

1 hour ago, Nuke said:

ive done a lot of c++ and some c programming. i tend to avoid vms and interpreted languages but im really good with lua, so its what i go to when i need a gui or something to talk to an arduino, i have the stub of a game engine written in lua but i dont expect to finish it.

I do to.. my biggest bug bear with Java was that it had no option to compile to native code. And back in 1999 when I was in Uni the so called "portability" was complete crap too.  Not once did I have compiled code run on anything other than the system I complied it on I always had to recompile for Window / Redhat  / Solaris  whichever I was using at the time..  The uni was convinced that Java was the "next big thing" but then went back to teaching C++ after my intake.  

The reason I don't work in the field is - I became a lone parent in my final year with no family to help me out and I had a breakdown and never graduated.  Can't get more student loan to finish my degree so I'm now working on being an actor   ( but maybe I can write a mobile phone game in java that goes viral )

I'm a LOT older than I look, I come from a very young looking family - I'm actually 47

Edited March 23, 2018 by NewtSoup

[wumpus]

At some point there was a "compile Java to native" option in gcc (called gcj) but it didn't support all the libraries and produced slower code than modern JITs.  Presumably it isn't a problem anymore.  Speeding up python is likewise a matter of using pypy (JIT python) instead of python (most standard libraries are supported, now including numpy, but you might have to recompile anything done for "standard" python.  By 1999 it was accepted that programmer time was more important than cycle time (computers would catch up).  Computers might not be getting much faster nowadays, but they are already fast enough to rarely bother with C++ code (it doesn't sound like you are going to be writing a widely used graphics engine or similar).

I've only done enough C++ to wrap a library for python, and came to the conclusion that while the language might be based on C, the whole idea was as far from C as possible.  In the K&R book, the authors state that "C is a small language and is best served by a small book".  C++ is basically the kitchen sink thrown in, and then the plumber threw in the rest of the piping.  After a lot of struggle and googling, I finally understood that the way I was creating objects (the way the "learn C++ in FIXNUM days" showed) put the object on the stack and not the heap.  This meant that while the pointer to the object was good, all the data was almost certainly (but not always, can't be that easy to debug) overwritten.  I suddenly realized all the tiny little details you need to know to learn C++ made it very specialized tool and that I should stick to smaller languages unless I really wanted to specialize in software (I'm a hardware guy).

If speed is really your thing, I'd suggest CUDA or OpenCL.  This is for really parallel, really weird memory models, really fast code.  All coded on GPUs.  It still looks like the ground floor is still open.

[NewtSoup]

7 hours ago, Green Baron said:

Btw., when your new system is upset you can try to recover the data. Maybe not all is lost ...

I am hoping that the drive with my OS on it can be coaxed back into life sufficient that I can simply mirror it onto the new drive.  

New SSD has arrived!.  Wish me luck.  I'm going in!

[Green Baron]

Well,  if you just mirror it you'll mirror the errors as well (what's a mirrored error anyway :-) ?).

What i would do, but it is years since i last did, so maybe a friendly co-reader might correct me if i don't get it right:

Plug the unruly disk in, boot from a clean system, do not mount the erroneous volumes but run a sudo e2fsck(*) (see man-page for details) on /dev/sdxa, where x is the drive (a, b, c, ...) and a is the number of the partition (1, 2, 3, ...) you want to check. The check does permit a try-run before correcting anything, which you could let loose before actually rewriting any directories or marking bad sectors.

That was the principle i had in mind to try to save what could be saved.

(*) assuming you use an ext2,3,4 file system. In which case debugfs (man) could help you as well.

 

Edit: sure, best of luck ... few things are as frustrating as fighting all the way through the levels again when the game saves are lost ... :-)

Edited March 23, 2018 by Green Baron

[NewtSoup]

Took me about half an hour to disassemble my PC and work out how to remount drives in best order.  Hover installation of the OS from USB took 4 minutes.  FOUR minutes.  That included live updates!.  Then it did one more update, one restart which took all of 30 seconds.  Done!.   Oh I love Linux.

Now I have the Gnome Desktop installed too    Wen't beyond Gnome-Shell as I am planning on uninstalling Unity if that's possible ( unless that's unadvisable in ubuntu 16.04 )

Obviously it's going to take me a few more hours to get all my software reinstalled but that would be the same in Windows.  Well, in windows I'd still be waiting on updates and restarts #cycnicalKrakenLover

[NewtSoup]

1 hour ago, Green Baron said:

Well,  if you just mirror it you'll mirror the errors as well (what's a mirrored error anyway :-) ?).

What i would do, but it is years since i last did, so maybe a friendly co-reader might correct me if i don't get it right:

Plug the unruly disk in, boot from a clean system, do not mount the erroneous volumes but run a sudo e2fsck(*) (see man-page for details) on /dev/sdxa, where x is the drive (a, b, c, ...) and a is the number of the partition (1, 2, 3, ...) you want to check. The check does permit a try-run before correcting anything, which you could let loose before actually rewriting any directories or marking bad sectors.

That was the principle i had in mind to try to save what could be saved.

(*) assuming you use an ext2,3,4 file system. In which case debugfs (man) could help you as well.

 

Edit: sure, best of luck ... few things are as frustrating as fighting all the way through the levels again when the game saves are lost ... :-)

Decided on the clean install route.  It's only save games I want to really recover and seeing as I wanted a new DE I got ubuntu on first. then gnome and now I'll start reinstalling sofware

The issue with the main drive is not surface errors but a refusal to spin up.  If I can get it to spin up I'll be able to get my save games off.  Then the drive gets a big black marker on it saying "do not use".

Sadly the drive is lost along with Babylon K, Minmus Rura Penthe outpost, Kerbin Orbital and all my Kerbal training   If I plug the drive in - it spins up - chatters a bit and then spins down..  If I try and boot with the drive installed my system just hangs and won't start at all.

Have to start over Kompletely.

 

[NewtSoup]

Now here's a thing.  My original post way back on page one was about the screenshot application being slow.

I have a clean install and the screenshot button just "works".   No messing around with keyrings.

From now on, every time I install something I'm going to press that Screenshot button and find out where it falls over, if it does. 

Also chrome starts up much faster now too.

[Zeiss Ikon]

On 3/20/2018 at 9:29 PM, NewtSoup said:

As for OS - Yep it's going to be Ubuntu 16.04 LTS again but I may have a go at replacing unity with Gnome 3 while I have a clean install an nothing to lose except time.

Looks like I didn't check the thread for too long -- I see you've got your Ubuntu installed and DTE switched already.  I was going to suggest Ubuntu Mate, which is what I run on my desktop and laptop.  Mate is a fork of Gnome 2, and I prefer it over Gnome 3.  It's actually got me looking forward to 18.04 (usually, I hate upgrades, because they break more stuff than they fix).

I used to use KDE 4, but when Ubuntu 16.04 (and everyone else, due to KDE support limits) switched to KDE 5, it abandoned most of the eye candy that made me like the system.  If I can't have Keramik window theme, what's the point of running KDE at all?