[1.5.0 <-> 1.8.1] Kerbalism v3.2

[Sir Mortimer]

1 hour ago, vardicd said:

I'm uh, using x science on my KSP install 1.6.1 no problems. there is a version updated for 1.6.1

 

OK, tried that version now. Everything looks as it is working as it should: there are no exceptions, I can build and launch a flea, I can do science and x Science won't see anything. Note that this was a bare stock intall, only Kerbalism and x Science! installed. So whatever is causing your exceptions has to do with something else.

[Asdefjak]

1 hour ago, Sir Mortimer said:

OK, tried that version now. Everything looks as it is working as it should: there are no exceptions, I can build and launch a flea, I can do science and x Science won't see anything. Note that this was a bare stock intall, only Kerbalism and x Science! installed. So whatever is causing your exceptions has to do with something else.

Interesting. The problem must be an interaction between 3 (or more) mods, because uninstalling x Science did fix it. I didnt test pure stock+x Science+Kerbalism.

[afafsa]

On 3/27/2019 at 12:17 PM, afafsa said:

Is there some aspect of the pressurization system I don't understand? The amount of nitrogen my station uses is so extreme that I generally just edit the config files to fix it. Parts will randomly seem to depressurize and no amount of nitrogen will ever be enough repressurize them. I'm not even using inflatable parts.

Alright, there's definitely something broken with the the radial airlock parts from SSPX. That's the common factor with all my ships that seem to have their pressurization system completely break. Each time I get caught in a pressurization cycle where the nitrogen just completely depletes within the span of a few hours as all the pressurized parts get caught in an infinite loop. At real time the pressurization value slowly ticks up, but the moment you accelerate time they all depressurize.

[SamTDS]

I'm sticking running to 2.2.0 as that is what ckan gave me and I've built everything around it. Does produce some red herring exceptions when in my case today it was KOS that was making the game fail to load for 2 hours. Most of the exceptions seen is when people are loading into a save which wasn't saved with the mod running. @N70 I would love to help out with testing and the new science system is really good despite biome specific flying science struggles to complete.

[3x01]

Thought I'd say: Kerbalism Resource panel in VAB/SPH does not account for tweakscaled parts.

[casper88]

6 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

OK, tried that version now. Everything looks as it is working as it should: there are no exceptions, I can build and launch a flea, I can do science and x Science won't see anything. Note that this was a bare stock intall, only Kerbalism and x Science! installed. So whatever is causing your exceptions has to do with something else.

maybe with dmagic science mods/other mods that add science to be done? 

[Darkherring]

I've just restarted my career in 3.2x resized system. The day length is now 9h. Is there a way to adjust mission planner for that?

[Uberns]

On 4/8/2019 at 2:04 PM, Cruesoe said:

...

Science in the upcoming is very different, embrace the change! 

...

I was one of the people that accidently got a copy of 2.2 and I actually really enjoyed the new way yall are doing science now.  I was tempted to switch back to it but decided to at least wait until a stable version is announced XD.  You guys put some really great ideas into Kerbalism and it is awesome that you still adding new ones!

[MassoudGL]

oooooh 2.2, 3.0, I'm excited! (I'm limiting my playtime now so I don't get too far along in career before it becomes slightly more difficult.

[Sir Mortimer]

1 hour ago, MassoudGL said:

oooooh 2.2, 3.0, I'm excited! (I'm limiting my playtime now so I don't get too far along in career before it becomes slightly more difficult.

You will have to adapt your play style. For example, to get the science from the lower atmosphere, I shoot up a sounding probe that will deploy chutes at 5000m altitude and then, as slowly as possible, glide down to the surface, to give the experiments as much time as possible to complete. A radiation reading uses some 8 minutes, a temperature reading is relatively fast at 2-3 minutes, a barometer scan runs for 15 minutes. And those are the short experiments. If the experiment doesn't get enough time, you still get some value out of it, but you'd have to repeat it.

Now, you'll be facing 2 problems:

First problem, the experiments usually generate more data than can be stored on the vessel, so you'll have to transmit them back while they're running. That, of course, requires a direct link to a relay or to Kerbin. And transmission bandwidth is very limited, especially in early career (but that can be mitigated by attaching a bunch of antennae).

Second problem: antennae and experiments need electricity to run, and some experiments need quite a lot. A goo container for example needs to heat the goo up to a specific temperature, and doing that will use up almost all of the battery capacity of a Mk-1 pod by the time it is finished (10-11 minutes). So you have to figure out a way to generate electricity, which will be a problem especially in early career when you don't have solar panels. You will have the possibility to run a Monoprop+O2 fuel cell, but be VERY careful with that because they'll suck out all the O2 you have and then some. I just lost Jeb and Valentina because of that.

Running experiments in high atmosphere will require some clever engineering, maybe you'll have to fly a plane at high altitudes while the experiments on board are running. Launching a rocket into a suborbital trajectory will no longer work.

It will be fun to see what engineering solutions people will come up with to get the full value out of a material bay

[JebIsDeadBaby]

Oh for God's sake, shut up and take my money!!

[Sir Mortimer]

23 hours ago, SamTDS said:

it was KOS that was making the game fail to load for 2 hours

Nope, it wasn't. It was probably you working with an existing save with the new version. That doesn't work in the version you have.

[MassoudGL]

So what's the timeframe? Should I put off playing for another week or is it going to be a few months until this all drops???

[SamTDS]

3 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

Nope, it wasn't. It was probably you working with an existing save with the new version. That doesn't work in the version you have.

It was the save I ran the day before with the same modest and same version of kerbalism (2.2.0) as provided by ckan. I must say the new science system does challenge you with how you will get your science in the early game, I'm almost going to mun but need more science for fairings and solar panels so I can get a comnet established

[Uberns]

17 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

You will have to adapt your play style. For example, to get the science from the lower atmosphere, I shoot up a sounding probe that will deploy chutes at 5000m altitude and then, as slowly as possible, glide down to the surface, to give the experiments as much time as possible to complete. A radiation reading uses some 8 minutes, a temperature reading is relatively fast at 2-3 minutes, a barometer scan runs for 15 minutes. And those are the short experiments. If the experiment doesn't get enough time, you still get some value out of it, but you'd have to repeat it.

Now, you'll be facing 2 problems:

First problem, the experiments usually generate more data than can be stored on the vessel, so you'll have to transmit them back while they're running. That, of course, requires a direct link to a relay or to Kerbin. And transmission bandwidth is very limited, especially in early career (but that can be mitigated by attaching a bunch of antennae).

Second problem: antennae and experiments need electricity to run, and some experiments need quite a lot. A goo container for example needs to heat the goo up to a specific temperature, and doing that will use up almost all of the battery capacity of a Mk-1 pod by the time it is finished (10-11 minutes). So you have to figure out a way to generate electricity, which will be a problem especially in early career when you don't have solar panels. You will have the possibility to run a Monoprop+O2 fuel cell, but be VERY careful with that because they'll suck out all the O2 you have and then some. I just lost Jeb and Valentina because of that.

Running experiments in high atmosphere will require some clever engineering, maybe you'll have to fly a plane at high altitudes while the experiments on board are running. Launching a rocket into a suborbital trajectory will no longer work.

It will be fun to see what engineering solutions people will come up with to get the full value out of a material bay

You basically just described my first experience with 2.2.  I thought it was great and introduced alot of interesting problems to solve that spiced the game up.  Love it!

Will experiments complete in the background?  For example: if you turn on a grav sensor on a polar orbit, can you leave it and let it slowly collect grav data from all of the biomes while you fly other ships?

Edited April 11, 2019 by Uberns
grammar

[traisjames]

Just a heads up to everyone, at the moment Kerbalism does not work with KSP 1.7.

 

How does a barometer scan take 15 minutes?  I have a handheld weather thing that calculates pressure in a second.

[N70]

4 hours ago, traisjames said:

Just a heads up to everyone, at the moment Kerbalism does not work with KSP 1.7.

 

How does a barometer scan take 15 minutes?  I have a handheld weather thing that calculates pressure in a second.

if you wanna try to give KSP a go with 1.7, just literally copy Kerbalism16.bin to Kerbalism17.bin

 

also, wait for Module Manager!!!!

[Tacombel]

 

4 hours ago, traisjames said:

How does a barometer scan take 15 minutes?  I have a handheld weather thing that calculates pressure in a second.

You are not taking a single measurement, but studying the evolution over time.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Tacombel

[Sir Mortimer]

8 hours ago, Uberns said:

Will experiments complete in the background?  For example: if you turn on a grav sensor on a polar orbit, can you leave it and let it slowly collect grav data from all of the biomes while you fly other ships?

Yes.

Glad you love it

[Kastruss]

4 hours ago, N70 said:

if you wanna try to give KSP a go with 1.7, just literally copy Kerbalism16.bin to Kerbalism17.bin

 

also, wait for Module Manager!!!!

any prediction to release the next version for 1.7?

in addition, the module manager alert there is a 2.2 version, but I didn't find where to download it.

[Cruesoe]

1 hour ago, Kastruss said:

any prediction to release the next version for 1.7?

in addition, the module manager alert there is a 2.2 version, but I didn't find where to download it.

Work on the next version has been in progress for some time. No eta at the moment but given 1.7 came out less than 24 hours ago I think we should give them some time to asses the impact, if any.

There is no 2.2, there was a release error.  2.1.2 is the latest until the next release.  2.1.2 is currently stable for version 1.6.1 of KSP.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Cruesoe
awful spelling

[SilverState]

1 hour ago, Kastruss said:

any prediction to release the next version for 1.7?

in addition, the module manager alert there is a 2.2 version, but I didn't find where to download it.

please do not download 2.2. Stick to 2.1.2 for now

[gulegule]

5 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

Yes.

Glad you love it

I also briefly played the 2.2 version, due to naively trusting CKAN.  To me the new science system felt like it cut against one of the things I like about this mod.  Namely that "the need to repeat the same experiment in a situation multiple times has been removed" (from here: https://kerbalism.readthedocs.io/en/stable/science.html#tweaks).  This is especially evident in early career science-ing, needing multiple launches to get a full crew report doesn't feel like the right kind of challenging.

This probably just comes down to balancing the time needed for an experiment to fully complete.  Maybe it should scale with the bodies science multiplier (https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science#Celestial_body_multipliers)?  That way early kerbin experiments are faster, but later outer world experiments are slower.

[Cruesoe]

56 minutes ago, gulegule said:

I also briefly played the 2.2 version, due to naively trusting CKAN.  To me the new science system felt like it cut against one of the things I like about this mod.  Namely that "the need to repeat the same experiment in a situation multiple times has been removed" (from here: https://kerbalism.readthedocs.io/en/stable/science.html#tweaks).  This is especially evident in early career science-ing, needing multiple launches to get a full crew report doesn't feel like the right kind of challenging.

This probably just comes down to balancing the time needed for an experiment to fully complete.  Maybe it should scale with the bodies science multiplier (https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science#Celestial_body_multipliers)?  That way early kerbin experiments are faster, but later outer world experiments are slower.

If you played the mod from CKAN then it's very fault was it was missing the science configs and therefore balance.

You don't need multiple flights to do one experiment, but you can't just slap on all experiments in an early career rocket without thinking about hard drive space, time to complete and electrical charge required.

 

 

[N70]

Yeah the 2.2.0 on CKAN (now frozen) was released WAYYY too early