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The FAR Fightout: BDA Gunfighters!

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted (edited)

Welcome to the FAR fightout, a BDArmory + FAR gunfighter competition. A link to an unofficial version of FAR for KSP 1.4.x is here:

 

ALLOWED MODS:

Aviator Arsenal

Tweakscale
BDArmory Continued
AirplanePlus
Ferram Aerospace Research
B9 Procedural wings

RULES

1. Guns only. No missiles. Options are 1 hidden vulcan, 1 GAU-8, 6 browning .50 cals/any aviator arsenal gun under 15mm(except the turret), 4 of any aviatior arsenal guns over 15mm, or 2 M230 turrets locked in forward position. No mixing gun types.

2. Manned aircraft only. And no lawn chairs.

3. MINIMUM weight at launch of 12t if your plane has over 150kn of thrust. If your airplane has less than 150kn of thrust, then 6t is the minimum. 

4. Up to two engines.(except the saturn ALF-31 engines that comes with BDA. only one of those) And no thrust vectoring.

5. No excessive wing clipping(minor clipping for aesthetics perfectly OK, just dont take it overboard)

6. And please no multi wing airplanes(e.g, biplane, triplanes) 

7. No chaff/flare boxes. There aren't any missiles involved here, and they simply lagg up my game.

8. 75 part count absolute limit. However, try to keep it around 50 (or even less). It makes it alot easier for my laptop :).

9. Please avoid aerodynamically unstable aircraft. They are generally uncontrollable by the BDA AI pilot. Just found out how. Will make a post about it soon. (Also, try to avoid replicating planes that are aerodynamically unstable IRL.(e.g, F-16, Su-27, F/A-18, Mirage 2000C). If you still want to replicate it, move the main wings a bit further back than IRL, and concentrate weight [e.g, ammo, weapons, fuel] near the front of the airplane)

10. Please don't take competitiveness too far. Try to make your planes semi-realistic. I am not discouraging well-built designs and creativity; I am trying to discourage unrealistic/unreasonable designs that technically fit the above rules, but use their unrealistic design to get unrealistic performance.(for those familiar with BAD T III and the Wasp mk3.3, you know what I mean.) Remember, we are here to have fun.

11. No decouplers. The whole plane must battle from takeoff onwards. 

12. You may tweak the AI pilot settings however you want, but the Max G cannot exceed 10.

13. All editing must be done in-game. No text editing the .craft files.*

*txt editing is permitted as long as you don't go outside normal values (e.g, the max AoA ranges from 0-80, in increments of 2.5. If you wanted an exact value of 26(not possible with 2.5 increments), you can txt edit it. You couldn't text edit it to, say, 100.)

Rules on dogfights:
1. Fights are conducted in 3v3 format, with the BDArmory AI competition mode.

2. The competition spawn points will be the island airfield, and the KSC.

3. Other than the engine startup, all procedures are automated.

4. A plane is considered "killed" if
A. Any essential modules are destroyed (AI pilot, Weapons Manager, command module)
B. it is unable to fly under AI control without crashing. 

5. Best out of three fights wins.

6. The leaderboard consists of 3 spots, and a competitor starts with battling the #3 design, and works its way up.

7. Fights are run on the latest BDArmory (currently 1.2.2.2.)

Also, remember this: you aren't limited to modern aircraft. Many planes from the 50s and 60s (F-5E, MiG-17, etc.) were, and still are highly respected dogfighting machines. And I personally like seeing different designs from different eras, so be creative! 

Also, remember to have fun!

U2kaEjE.png

Edited by Guest
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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ZLM-Master said:

Wow ! Not using FAR till KSP 0.23 ^^

Let me time to re-learn how to use it ;););) 

Can we use propeller ? WW2 monoplan style ?

I mean, propellers are technically allowed. But why?

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Piatzin

Piatzin

Posted
Posted

One day, I will find the time and motivation to construct the successor of the Berzerkers and Lancers, and it will be the best plane in my personal arsenal - the Ripsaw.

 

However, today is not that day

 

G'day

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ZLM-Master

ZLM-Master

Posted
Posted (edited)

@dundun92 Question Sir ?

Are we use Static thrust or Dynamic thrust , because FAR has his own way for thrust calculation !?!

Yep So 2 Tigers have 15 KN dry & 30 KN wet ( so 30/60 ) but in flight they about 289 KN ( Theoretical thrust calc )

I'm a bit confusing with the KN rule (-,-)

Edited by ZLM-Master
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Guest

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Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, ZLM-Master said:

@dundun92 Question Sir ?

Are we use Static thrust or Dynamic thrust , because FAR has his own way for thrust calculation !?!

Yep So 2 Tigers have 15 KN dry & 30 KN wet ( so 30/60 ) but in flight they about 289 KN ( Theoretical thrust calc )

I'm a bit confusing with the KN rule (-,-)

Use the max thrust value in the SPH. Should be around 55 for tiger wet.

1 hour ago, ZLM-Master said:

Well so !

I have my first entry with less than 250 KN and 6 MG 131 ( 13 mm )

Far , far away , i used FAR !

Huh !

I think i remember all the most important tricks with FAR so it's should work not too bad .

All seems OK .

VG-60-MG 131

lfmh4KG.jpg

The Scoot Killer ;)  .....  or not  ^^

Nice entry. Hopefully my K-29A can deal with it lol.

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ZLM-Master

ZLM-Master

Posted
Posted

The original Project !

Spoiler

7Y9hPFW.jpg

I don't have B9 mod so i can't test your craft , but it look far more powerful than mine ;)

This is a Snap of the initial project but it not fit your rules so i replace propeller with 2 tiger & more fuel . 6 Tons is too heavy for propeller . 

BTW it help me to re-learn how FAR work . Pretty much easier with a slow plane ^^

I going to build something more powerful !

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Joseph Kerman

Joseph Kerman

Posted
Posted
On 8/19/2018 at 7:51 AM, dundun92 said:

Welcome to the FAR fightout, a BDArmory + FAR gunfighter competition. A link to an unofficial version of FAR for KSP 1.4.x is here:

 

ALLOWED MODS:

Aviator Arsenal

Tweakscale
BDArmory Continued
AirplanePlus
Ferram Aerospace Research
B9 Procedural wings

RULES

1. Guns only. No missiles. Options are 1 hidden vulcan, 6 browning .50 cals/any aviator arsenal gun under 15mm(except the turret), 4 of any aviatior arsenal guns over 15mm, or 2 M230 turrets locked in forward position. No mixing gun types.

2. Manned aircraft only. And no lawn chairs.

3. MINIMUM weight at launch of 12t if your plane has over 250kn of thrust. If your airplane has less than 250kn of thrust, then 6t is the minimum. 

4. Up to two engines.(except the saturn ALF-31 engines that comes with BDA. only one of those) And no thrust vectoring.

5. No excessive wing clipping(minor clipping for aesthetics perfectly OK, just dont take it overboard)

6. And please no multi wing airplanes(e.g, biplane, triplanes) 

7. No chaff/flare boxes. There aren't any missiles involved here, and they simply lagg up my game.

8. 75 part count absolute limit. However, try to keep it around 50 (or even less). It makes it alot easier for my laptop :).

9. Please avoid aerodynamically unstable aircraft. They are generally uncontrollable by the BDA AI pilot. Just found out how. Will make a post about it soon. (Also, try to avoid replicating planes that are aerodynamically unstable IRL.(e.g, F-16, Su-27, F/A-18, Mirage 2000C). If you still want to replicate it, move the main wings a bit further back than IRL, and concentrate weight [e.g, ammo, weapons, fuel] near the front of the airplane)

10. Please don't take competitiveness too far. Try to make your planes semi-realistic. I am not discouraging well-built designs and creativity; I am trying to discourage unrealistic/unreasonable designs that technically fit the above rules, but use their unrealistic design to get unrealistic performance.(for those familiar with BAD T III and the Wasp mk3.3, you know what I mean.) Remember, we are here to have fun.

11. No decouplers. The whole plane must battle from takeoff onwards. 

12. You may tweak the AI pilot settings however you want, but the Max G cannot exceed 10.

13. All editing must be done in-game. No text editing the .craft files.*

*txt editing is permitted as long as you don't go outside normal values (e.g, the max AoA ranges from 0-80, in increments of 2.5. If you wanted an exact value of 26(not possible with 2.5 increments), you can txt edit it. You couldn't text edit it to, say, 100.)

Rules on dogfights:
1. Fights are conducted in 3v3 format, with the BDArmory AI competition mode.

2. The competition spawn points will be the island airfield, and the KSC.

3. Other than the engine startup, all procedures are automated.

4. A plane is considered "killed" if
A. Any essential modules are destroyed (AI pilot, Weapons Manager, command module)
B. it is unable to fly under AI control without crashing. 

5. Best out of three fights wins.

6. The leaderboard consists of 3 spots, and a competitor starts with battling the #3 design, and works its way up.

7. Fights are run on the latest BDArmory (currently 1.2.2.2.)

Also, remember this: you aren't limited to modern aircraft. Many planes from the 50s and 60s (F-5E, MiG-17, etc.) were, and still are highly respected dogfighting machines. And I personally like seeing different designs from different eras, so be creative! 

Also, remember to have fun!

No TVC? Modern planes have TVC (Sukhoi Su-27 and later, X-31, F-22) which not only enhance maneuverability, but also prevents flat spins from being a death wish. You can't always rely on aero surfaces for control.

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Mukita12

Mukita12

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/19/2018 at 6:51 AM, dundun92 said:

Welcome to the FAR fightout, a BDArmory + FAR gunfighter competition. A link to an unofficial version of FAR for KSP 1.4.x is here:

 

ALLOWED MODS:

Aviator Arsenal

Tweakscale
BDArmory Continued
AirplanePlus
Ferram Aerospace Research
B9 Procedural wings

RULES

1. Guns only. No missiles. Options are 1 hidden vulcan, 6 browning .50 cals/any aviator arsenal gun under 15mm(except the turret), 4 of any aviatior arsenal guns over 15mm, or 2 M230 turrets locked in forward position. No mixing gun types.

2. Manned aircraft only. And no lawn chairs.

3. MINIMUM weight at launch of 12t if your plane has over 250kn of thrust. If your airplane has less than 250kn of thrust, then 6t is the minimum. 

4. Up to two engines.(except the saturn ALF-31 engines that comes with BDA. only one of those) And no thrust vectoring.

5. No excessive wing clipping(minor clipping for aesthetics perfectly OK, just dont take it overboard)

6. And please no multi wing airplanes(e.g, biplane, triplanes) 

7. No chaff/flare boxes. There aren't any missiles involved here, and they simply lagg up my game.

8. 75 part count absolute limit. However, try to keep it around 50 (or even less). It makes it alot easier for my laptop :).

9. Please avoid aerodynamically unstable aircraft. They are generally uncontrollable by the BDA AI pilot. Just found out how. Will make a post about it soon. (Also, try to avoid replicating planes that are aerodynamically unstable IRL.(e.g, F-16, Su-27, F/A-18, Mirage 2000C). If you still want to replicate it, move the main wings a bit further back than IRL, and concentrate weight [e.g, ammo, weapons, fuel] near the front of the airplane)

10. Please don't take competitiveness too far. Try to make your planes semi-realistic. I am not discouraging well-built designs and creativity; I am trying to discourage unrealistic/unreasonable designs that technically fit the above rules, but use their unrealistic design to get unrealistic performance.(for those familiar with BAD T III and the Wasp mk3.3, you know what I mean.) Remember, we are here to have fun.

11. No decouplers. The whole plane must battle from takeoff onwards. 

12. You may tweak the AI pilot settings however you want, but the Max G cannot exceed 10.

13. All editing must be done in-game. No text editing the .craft files.*

*txt editing is permitted as long as you don't go outside normal values (e.g, the max AoA ranges from 0-80, in increments of 2.5. If you wanted an exact value of 26(not possible with 2.5 increments), you can txt edit it. You couldn't text edit it to, say, 100.)

Rules on dogfights:
1. Fights are conducted in 3v3 format, with the BDArmory AI competition mode.

2. The competition spawn points will be the island airfield, and the KSC.

3. Other than the engine startup, all procedures are automated.

4. A plane is considered "killed" if
A. Any essential modules are destroyed (AI pilot, Weapons Manager, command module)
B. it is unable to fly under AI control without crashing. 

5. Best out of three fights wins.

6. The leaderboard consists of 3 spots, and a competitor starts with battling the #3 design, and works its way up.

7. Fights are run on the latest BDArmory (currently 1.2.2.2.)

Also, remember this: you aren't limited to modern aircraft. Many planes from the 50s and 60s (F-5E, MiG-17, etc.) were, and still are highly respected dogfighting machines. And I personally like seeing different designs from different eras, so be creative! 

Also, remember to have fun!

U2kaEjE.png

Thanks for Renewing mines

Edited by Mukita12
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Guest

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Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Joseph Kerman said:

No TVC? Modern planes have TVC (Sukhoi Su-27 and later, X-31, F-22) which not only enhance maneuverability, but also prevents flat spins from being a death wish. You can't always rely on aero surfaces for control.

I banned it in order to force people to make well-designed aircraft. TVC allows cheaply designed aircraft to compete competitively. Besides, planes can easily recover from flat spins. Even my aerodynamically unstable aircraft can recover from flatspins under AI control alone. Without TVC. Also, TVC isn't a substitute for good designing. For example, the USAF did tets with a thrust vectoring F-16, and decided that it wasn't practical. Why? The F-16 was so well designed, that TVC didn't substantially increase maneuverability. The only maneuverability increase was at very low speeds (where aerodynamic surfaces do poorly), and according to modern EM (energy-maneuverability) theory, you shouldn't be at low speeds in a dogfight, as your instantaneous/sustained turn rate is lower. Also, when the X-31 participated in dogfight tests against the F-15/16, the F-15/16s had the better kill ratio! Again, the proper design of those two (low wing loading, high TWR, low induced drag) allowed them to overcome the thrust vectoring X-31, which had none of those characteristics. That's also why those ridiculous Su-35 stunts are useless in combat; they can only be performed at low speeds, where you shouldn't be. This is also why F-22 pilots have been beaten by other pilots in simulated dogfights more than you would expect. The F-22 doesn't perform much better at high subsonic speeds (where you should be dogfighting) than its competitors. Only at low speeds is its advantage really apparent. 

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Kernel Kraken

Kernel Kraken

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ooh, cool! I'll enter one of my oversized SU-27s soon. By now it probably classifies as a bomber, though :p

EDIT: If I find a way to balance the gun to make it not OP, can I use a GAU-8? 

Edited by Kernel Kraken
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