Rational Resources 3.1.1 [Feb 21, 2025]

[JD_]

Is this mod RSS compatible?

[JadeOfMaar]

13 hours ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

I should be able to provide a log and some screenshots of the errors then. 

Looking forward to that.

3 hours ago, JD_ said:

Is this mod RSS compatible?

Yes. But there are no biome-specific configs so you'll be disappointed if you're expecting 100% water in certain polar regions.

[JD_]

4 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Looking forward to that.

Yes. But there are no biome-specific configs so you'll be disappointed if you're expecting 100% water in certain polar regions.

So the resource distribution will be random?

Also I've been meaning to ask: how does RR interact with stock ore scanning parts? do they also work am I required to use the native RR scanners?

[JadeOfMaar]

@JD_ Random, yes, but still somewhat appropriate to what a given celestial is presumed to be made of. Phobos and Deimos are treated as captured icebergs, for example.

RR does not touch the stock scanner parts except to add its own experiment "Planetary Classification" to the orbital narrowband scanner. (It's somewhat of a low tier alternative to discovering things via Space Dust and has been around before Space Dust happened.) The stock scanners are avoided to prevent potential conflicts with what other mods might add to them. Whether they still work correctly otherwise is for you to find out. You're required to use RR's own scanner parts as a consequence and if you're interested in mining oceans, atmospheres or low space. RR invites you to take full advantage of those other situations.

 

[JD_]

59 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

RR does not touch the stock scanner parts except to add its own experiment "Planetary Classification" to the orbital narrowband scanner. (It's somewhat of a low tier alternative to discovering things via Space Dust and has been around before Space Dust happened.) The stock scanners are avoided to prevent potential conflicts with what other mods might add to them. Whether they still work correctly otherwise is for you to find out. You're required to use RR's own scanner parts as a consequence and if you're interested in mining oceans, atmospheres or low space. RR invites you to take full advantage of those other situations.

 

So if I was to use a stock scanner on jool (or say, jupiter), it wouldnt work as it is an ore scanner and there is no ore, but if I'm looking for harvestable H2 I have to use an RR scanner? Furthermore,  given that Nertea's SpaceDust is an FFT dependency and has atmospheric/low space resources, I was wondering: does RR have compatibility for those resources? or do the two mods clash as both of them have atmospheric and low space resources?

Also, does the stock system have configs for polar ice caps for instance? or are resources also random there?

And just to confirm, you did not add RR configs to the stock scanners, rendering them obsolete for RR resources, correct?

Edited Thursday at 06:45 PM by JD_

[JadeOfMaar]

@JD_ Yes. Jool and Jupiter have no surface, no terrain to be scanned for Ore. Yes you would have to use the RR Sky Scanner. It will show you the atmo composition and it will show what resources are ike in space immediately where the orbiter is. It is RR's business to make resources less random (what you get is influenced by what the body is presumed to be made of, given its looks, orbit and lore (when applicable). And it is RR's business to put resources in atmospheres, oceans and near space of all compatible worlds.

RR has no involvement with Space Dust. Setting up every resource for planets on Space Dust requires a whole other level of committment so I entirely leave that alone. My somewhat abandoned mod "Space Dust Bunnies" was a test and seemed well received.

RR has configs for polar regions on the stock planets, JNSQ and possibly other planet packs. RSS just isn't my thing (and I didn't have a strong enough case for making a biome template system yet) so doing fine details like this were tedium I wanted to avoid. Biome templates exist now (since KSS2) so now it's easy to deal with ice caps.

The stock system won't have any configs. It doesn't care. It's purely random and crustal only, and of course, (without resource libraries) the only mineable resource is Ore so everywhere you go would only be a matter of "How rich is the Ore here?"

[JD_]

I see. So it seems I will have to pick and choose between using spacedust and RR since there is considerable overlap in what they provide and how to access it, leading to likely conflicts.

 

Edit: I see both mods actually use CRP resources but RR is configured to override other definitions of said resources, so I should actually go ask SpaceDust side if SpaceDust scanners are compatible with RR distributions.

Edited Thursday at 07:11 PM by JD_

[JadeOfMaar]

47 minutes ago, JD_ said:

And just to confirm, you did not add RR configs to the stock scanners, rendering them obsolete for RR resources, correct?

To be clear, only the stock Surface Scanner doesn't get patched so it would be useless. But the orbital scanners will still be relevant and will show all the crustal resources that RR has placed.

10 minutes ago, JD_ said:

I see. So it seems I will have to pick and choose between using spacedust and RR since there is considerable overlap in what they provide and how to access it, leading to likely conflicts.

For the most part, you do have to choose between. Not because of overlap and conflicts but because of which one fits better with your mining scenario.

I've wanted only one thing from Space Dust and that is so that I can setup sufficiently wide resource bands around stars for starlifter fun but I can't in stock because stock has a bug which completely breaks that. The rest of it is not worth the tedium of its configs. If I do make configs for Space Dust it'll only be for stars (for starlifting) and ringed planets (I would make for a huge harvester buff there because they are VISIBLY full of dusty goods).

Edited Thursday at 07:18 PM by JadeOfMaar

[JD_]

I mean my mining scenario is mostly on the surface (mainly establishing bases wherever I can find water so I can get HydroLox), so RR takes priority there, but as I said, they both share CRP resources. I'm sorry if my questions are getting tedious, as I see you haven't made configs for spacedust specific resource bands, but I am wondering, which mod takes precedence when it comes to atmospheric/exospheric harvesting? Does RR override all other resource distributions?

[JadeOfMaar]

@JD_ Ahhh. That's nice, and I'm not too bothered by the questioning. RR does override all (because purely random placement and handwavium resources that are self-conflicting when compared to IRL ones bother me), but exceptions can occur (because eventually someone would ask and want their resource mod to not be stomped on if it's vital to their play style).

RR takes precendence, by far, with respect to atmosphere and exoshpere. AFAIK most mods that add resources don't care about those and I personally really like the idea of having fuel stations at an atmosphere's edge or dodging the need to wrestle with building a mining lander with worthwhile dV to be a net positive to a station.

[JD_]

56 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

RR takes precendence, by far, with respect to atmosphere and exoshpere. AFAIK most mods that add resources don't care about those and I personally really like the idea of having fuel stations at an atmosphere's edge or dodging the need to wrestle with building a mining lander with worthwhile dV to be a net positive to a station.

I see, out of curiosity, how does RR compare with SD when addressing resource complexity in atmospheres? I need to keep SD because it's a dependency of FFT, which is all fine and dandy since it comes with harvesters and harvester support (for FFT I guess), and in game right now, I see that the SD scanners are fully compatible with RR atmo/exo resources. So all I'm wondering is how does RR organize atmo/exo resources? does it have a similar band based system as SD with rings and spheres or is it just random blotches similarly to ground resources?

 

I'm gonna run some errands now but when I get back I'll see how various scanners interact with RR and provide an update. 

Edited Thursday at 08:52 PM by JD_

[JadeOfMaar]

@JD_ Space Dust is superior to RR/stock in that atmosphere resources can be banded. What you get can depend on the altitude you're at. In the case of gas giants I could make so that while you can get Hydrogen (Protium) at any altitude inside Jool, you'd have to go to a certain depth to be able to access Deuterium and if you wanted Methane or Phosphines or whatever, I could make it so you can only get those if you fly between 100km and 125km from sea level. In stock, an atmosphere resource's abundance only scales with ambient pressure.

RR has resource templates not just for crustal but for ocean, atmo and exo. Scroll down in the README on its git repo and you will see a table of all the templates and their category (per harvester type).

I'll be looking forward to that update.

Edited yesterday at 06:22 AM by JadeOfMaar
typos

[Sylvi Fisthaug]

On 2/20/2025 at 5:22 AM, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

Hello! 

Trying to install for the first time via CKAN, but I get fatal errors linked to B9 PartSwitch. Seems to be affected by all the additions, including the base RR mod. I need to dig a bit more and check what of my other mods might be conflicting, but that will be something for tomorrow. I do not have Classic Stock Resources installed, as that also seemed to throw fatal errors.

I saw something written here also about Sterling Systems which I have installed, as they depend on Wild Blue Industries. 

Ah well, more stuff to check out tomorrow! I should be able to provide a log and some screenshots of the errors then. 

22 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Looking forward to that.

Yes. But there are no biome-specific configs so you'll be disappointed if you're expecting 100% water in certain polar regions.

Aight. Here is an image of the fatal errors thrown. Iirc any mods from the RR series threw errors when installed from CKAN yesterday. 

Here is my ksp.log from this boot of the game. 

Please let me know if you need anything more to look into this, I'll make sure to check the forums periodically tonight.

EDIT: added the modlist of that boot of the game too, generated from CKAN, to the link.

Edited yesterday at 03:50 PM by Sylvi Fisthaug

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 3.1.1

• Removed mentions of Aurum resource. It caused unexpected problems for SSPXr users.

 

@Sylvi Fisthaug This will deal with the obvious Aurum resource problem. Hopefully this also clears up the bunch of fatal exceptions too.

[Sylvi Fisthaug]

54 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Release 3.1.1

• Removed mentions of Aurum resource. It caused unexpected problems for SSPXr users.

 

@Sylvi Fisthaug This will deal with the obvious Aurum resource problem. Hopefully this also clears up the bunch of fatal exceptions too.

Sadly, no Here are the screenshots of two new bunches of fatal errors on the two times I tried reinstalling now (from CKAN, maybe it takes some time before update goes live there?) together with the first one.

New ksp.log and modlist.txt can be found here.

EDIT: I did also delete all files named Aurum after uninstalling RR, then running "update all" on CKAN a couple of times to verify new files got installed and then I reinstalled twice and tried launching the game twice. Second attempt is what is in the ksp.log. No idea if relevant, but better safe than sorry. 

Edited 23 hours ago by Sylvi Fisthaug

[JadeOfMaar]

@Sylvi Fisthaug Try manually redownloading B9PS (and mayyyybe MM too). This specific problem is fixed that way when it happens to me. I have a skeptic "Chance to self-corrupt" mental note on B9PS.

And I hope you updated all of the RR mods you have installed, not just the main.

[Sylvi Fisthaug]

1 hour ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Sylvi Fisthaug Try manually redownloading B9PS (and mayyyybe MM too). This specific problem is fixed that way when it happens to me. I have a skeptic "Chance to self-corrupt" mental note on B9PS.

And I hope you updated all of the RR mods you have installed, not just the main.

I uninstalled and re-ran the game each time, hence my long response times, as game takes ages to load  but look!

GOOD errors!! YEEEES, it worked! Thank you! Now my kerbals can starve to death in piece when I inevitably forget them because I am busy drilling for some ore on some other planets with more options.

[JadeOfMaar]

1 hour ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

Now my kerbals can starve to death in piece when I inevitably forget them

If I knew this was coming I would've left my mod broken lol.

[jcxl233]

For those want to hold RR resources in Configurable Containers, here is a simple patch. Now you can put whatever propellant your SSTO uses into those B9 Procedural Wings.

// Allow some common fuel and propellants from Rational Resources to be stored in Configurable Containers
// Adpated from 000_AT_Utils/TankTypes.cfg

// Liquid chemical tank always exists. Add resources if not added already.
@TANKTYPE[LiquidChemicals]:NEEDS[RationalResources,!WarpPlugin]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: LqdAmmonia 1;: }

// Create Cryogenic tank if not exist and add resources if not added already.
TANKTYPE:NEEDS[RationalResources,!WarpPlugin,!KolonyTools,!Karbonite,!NearFuturePropulsion,!CryoEngines,!zzz_CryoTanks,!FFT]
{
    name = Cryogenic
    UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.99
    TankCostPerSurface = 20 //no active cooling
    AddMassPerVolume = 0.01 //only insulation
    Boiloff = true
    PossibleResources = 
}
@TANKTYPE[Cryogenic]:NEEDS[RationalResources,!WarpPlugin,!KolonyTools,!Karbonite,!NearFuturePropulsion,!CryoEngines,!zzz_CryoTanks,!FFT]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: LqdHydrogen 2;: }
@TANKTYPE[Cryogenic]:NEEDS[RationalResources,!WarpPlugin]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: LqdMethane 1; LqdCO 1; LqdCO2 1; LqdDeuterium 1; LqdHe3 1; LqdNitrogen 1; LqdOxygen 1;: }

// Create CryoCooling tank if not exist and add resources if not added already.
TANKTYPE:NEEDS[RationalResources,!WarpPlugin,!KolonyTools,!Karbonite,!NearFuturePropulsion,!CryoEngines,!zzz_CryoTanks,!FFT]
{
    name = CryoCooling
    UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.95
    TankCostPerSurface = 200 //active cooling
    AddMassPerVolume = 0.1
    Cooling = true
    PossibleResources = 
}
@TANKTYPE[CryoCooling]:NEEDS[RationalResources,!WarpPlugin,!KolonyTools,!Karbonite,!NearFuturePropulsion,!CryoEngines,!zzz_CryoTanks,!FFT]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: LqdHydrogen 2;: }
@TANKTYPE[CryoCooling]:NEEDS[RationalResources,!WarpPlugin]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: LqdMethane 1; LqdCO 1; LqdCO2 1; LqdDeuterium 1; LqdHe3 1; LqdNitrogen 1; LqdOxygen 1;: }

// Gas tank always exists. Add resources if not added already.
@TANKTYPE[Gases]:NEEDS[RationalResources,!WarpPlugin,!NearFuturePropulsion]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: ArgonGas 209.47892118355594;: }

// Soil tank always exists. Add resources if not added already.
@TANKTYPE[Soil]:NEEDS[RationalResources,!KolonyTools]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Hydrates 1; Silicates 1; Silicon 1;: }
@TANKTYPE[Soil]:NEEDS[RationalResources]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Spodumene 1;: }

// Create Metal tank if not exist and add resources if not added already.
TANKTYPE:NEEDS[RationalResources,!Launchpad,!KolonyTools,!Hangar,!KarbonitePlus,!WarpPlugin]
{
    name = Metal
    UsefulVolumeRatio = 1
    TankCostPerSurface = 1
    PossibleResources =
}
@TANKTYPE[Metal]:NEEDS[RationalResources,!WarpPlugin,!NearFuturePropulsion]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Lithium 1;: }

// Create radioactive tank if not exist and add resources if not added already.
TANKTYPE:NEEDS[RationalResources,!KolonyTools,!WarpPlugin,!KerboNerdLaboratories]
{ 
    name = Radioactives
    UsefulVolumeRatio = 0.9
    TankCostPerSurface = 500
    AddMassPerVolume = 0.80
    PossibleResources = EnrichedUranium 1; DepletedFuel 1;
}
@TANKTYPE[Radioactives]:NEEDS[RationalResources,!KolonyTools]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$:  Uraninite 1;: }

// Create water tank if not exist and add resources if not added already.
TANKTYPE:NEEDS[RationalResources,!TacLifeSupport,!KolonyTools,!WarpPlugin]
{
    name = Water
    UsefulVolumeRatio = 1
    TankCostPerSurface = 2
    PossibleResources = Water 1;
}

[DareMightyThingsJPL]

Hello @JadeOfMaar.

After a bit of research, I think that I know how to PROPERLY add new tank types, so that my Fluorine storage dreams can be fufilled.

There's just one issue. I can't figure out where the Tank Definitions are stored. Yep, that's it, that's the whole issue. What would be the filepath to find them?

[JadeOfMaar]

@DareMightyThingsJPL The tank types are kept at GameData/RationalResources/TemplateDefault/CRPDefault/zTankTypes.cfg

The RR Parts tank configs at GameData/RationalResourcesParts/Patches/ applies them.

Do tell me (again?) why you need Fluorine storage.

[DareMightyThingsJPL]

Modifying an engine to use hydrogen and fluorine, and as such I need storage for the hazardous material.

It sounds more reasonable to Kerbals to use this stuff, trust me.

Also, whilst I have your attention, I'd like to let you know that the added tank types don't have Systemheat.cfgs (except for your own cryotanks added in RationalResourcesParts). 

Edited 16 hours ago by DareMightyThingsJPL
Clarity in wording

[JadeOfMaar]

36 minutes ago, DareMightyThingsJPL said:

It sounds more reasonable to Kerbals to use this stuff, trust me.

That's something a kerbal engineer would say, huh? Can't fool me with this one.  

37 minutes ago, DareMightyThingsJPL said:

the added tank types don't have Systemheat.cfgs

Do you use System Heat Boiloff? I only barely tried it once.

[DareMightyThingsJPL]

3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

4 hours ago, DareMightyThingsJPL said:

It sounds more reasonable to Kerbals to use this stuff, trust me.

That's something a kerbal engineer would say, huh? Can't fool me with this one.  

Yep! Only a lithium triprop. engine would make them consider safety. Seriously, full house at chemical hazard-symbol bingo.

3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

4 hours ago, DareMightyThingsJPL said:

the added tank types don't have Systemheat.cfgs

Do you use System Heat Boiloff? I only barely tried it once

Yes, I do. I think its better because you don't have to satisfy excessive electric demands to keep them cool, rather you just have a radiator.