Dwarf Fortress & KSP

[AmpsterMan]

So I found out about these two games relatively recently and have been enthralled ever since. Why, I wonder, is it that these two seemingly completely different games have hooked me ever since?

Well I think I have an explanation. These games are very similar. Both have no wining conditions, both have a high learning curve, both have very active and helpful communities, both require and test your mental capacities, both require imagination, both are indie games...

Please discuss any similarities and differences between these games.

[MaxMurder]

they are both amazing!

welcome to the true world of gaming my good sir....

[Apothecarian]

I agree with Max. Both present a unique challenge and level of difficulty. Also, they are fairly lenient about losing. Well, other than that you have to restart.

[Ydoow]

gah, I can't get into DF...I recently tried and got pretty far, but I dunno. I just can't get much done I guess.

I hate to say boring, and I hate to say that the GUI is what makes it boring, but I think that's why I can't get into the game. I don't like to say that, I'm personally rather big on imagination.

It might be more related to I can't get far enough into the game to build a more personal relationship with my dwarves

[Endeavour]

I tried dwarf fortress, and I am willing to admit it was too difficult for me. Everything was laid out well, there was just too much for me. If I had more time to play, I might be able to learn it, but I don't.

[AmpsterMan]

they are both amazing!

welcome to the true world of gaming my good sir....

Thank you! Glad to have finally made it

I agree with Max. Both present a unique challenge and level of difficulty. Also, they are fairly lenient about losing. Well, other than that you have to restart.

Exactly! I like the fact that both of these games embrace losing as part of the learning and playing process, something that has been somewhat lost in the past decade or so of game development. Not that I think every game should be impossibly hard or something, just that the challenge of doing things has somewhat been lost. FPS games are linear and you have infinite health pretty much, RTS have all become clones of each other pretty much, simulation games have been dumbed down (Compare SimCity 4 to the newest SimCity planned) racing games are easier, flying games are easier; I think about the only games that have not been touched in terms of complexity might be the 4x games (with Civ V being maybe the exception) and RPGs, which I think are going through a paradigm shift atm (which BioWare is leading in so far)

That is why it is so refreshing to see games like DF, KSP, and to an extent MC. Unique games with unique challenges.

I hate to say boring, and I hate to say that the GUI is what makes it boring, but I think that's why I can't get into the game.

Probably my biggest gripe as well; that and it seems you NEED third party software to play the game properly. That being said, I like the level of immersion that game can offer you. I personally don't really care for the violent part of the game. I find it to be like a mini-SimCity or Tropico and that's what I like about it.

I tried dwarf fortress, and I am willing to admit it was too difficult for me. Everything was laid out well, there was just too much for me. If I had more time to play, I might be able to learn it, but I don't.

It DOES take some initial investment time to understand. And then it is still quite difficult. Something that has helped me when I play the game is not to play too much at a time. It increases fatigue and makes me get impatient. I find playing 30 minutes at a time is fun and allows me to focus on the minor details of the game which is really what it is all about. Once I realised the game was about the micro, not the macro, it helped me to enjoy it more.

These are all reasons I like KSP as well. It allows my childhood fantasies of being an astronaut be fulfilled. I HAVE been to the moon, I HAVE been in space, I HAVE done a space walk, it is so great that a game such as this can entertain me as an adult so much!

[dt890]

some quick notes on what to expect from Dwarf fortress

Offical wiki lol

its a really rare type of game. Another game that you might like is Nethack

[AmpsterMan]

Ha! That is a very funny picture and eerily accurate one at that! Where would you say KSP falls in that category?

[dt890]

Ha! That is a very funny picture and eerily accurate one at that! Where would you say KSP falls in that category?

i personally think that dwarf fortress is harder than ksp by quite mutch.

[Cthulufaic]

i personally think that dwarf fortress is harder than ksp by quite mutch.

Indeed, KSP is actually easy-enough if you read the tutorial or know how to use symmetry, but with DF it starts out around the same level but then it shoots up into the stratosphere, where even the tiniest decision of slaughtering(for food) an infirm, blind, toothless and sick dog can lead to doom.

Also, found this:

[Enture]

NOOOOO, don't mention Dwarf Fortress! Why would you do that to me?! Now I have this urge of playing it again, even though I really can't afford the time investment it takes (it's already bad enough with the time I spend playing KSP).

Poor poor me. And poor studies of mine...

Ok, jokes apart, it's great to see DF-players around here too!

[AmpsterMan]

Yeah, time seems to be the biggest culprit for me when playing KSP or Dwarf Fortress. Both games are somewhat time intensive so I get distracted easily from more important things in life. If any of you have any pics of fun fortresses and stuff, post them! I'll post mine when I get some.