Blocker features in KSP2 -- what would stop you from playing it?

[shdwlrd]

1 hour ago, AntaresMC said:

I designed a KS system that is super easy to be closed loop, but gets exponentially more difficult the more non LS people you have. There are 2 cycles, snacks-waste, a time limiter to kerbals working at all, with recyclers, that cut food usage by 1/4 and 1/2 if 5star engineer on board and greenhouses that turn 1waste into 1/4 snacks ans 1/2 if lvl5 scientist. Pilots have an ability to share LS in 2km and manually move resources in that distance, for balance and ease of colonizing. There's also space, that is a limiter to the efficiency of kerbals at work. Each kerbal uses 1 space, each empty seat gives 1, cupoulas multiply by 3/2 capped at 1 to all crew, dont stack. Efficiency=1-1/space)×stars×cupoula. So a hichiker+can+cupoula+recycler for 2+agroponics for 2 is self sufficient. To compensate for the exponential difficulty curve if let non LS prsonnel in, you can duplicate waste by adding an equal mass of ore and another equal of water (also propose a fuel system, ask if interested or this post will be infinite) in a lab/converter, making it net positive, and making this difficulty curve flat (not as Kerbin, but as a straight line) in big fully equiped surface bases, but a pain in orbit, encouraging to build more ISRU bases and less stranded OP labs in the middle of nowhere picking up tons of cheap science from Mun... as there's so easy recycling, its turnable off and all capsules have supplies to a week full (they'd be filled in a 1/3 basis to allow 100% eff) so 3 weeks, there is no grace periond (in practice is 3 weeks, but u can remove it or something..).

Kerbals can be on EVA as much as they (or you) want if in 2Km of the vessel, using its LS, if not there are upgrades in tech tree (KSPIE style) to improve EVA time, that dont recharges until again in the ship. The first week space dont matter. 

Sounds a lot like USI:LS without MKS installed.

[AntaresMC]

6 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

Sounds a lot like USI:LS without MKS installed.

I got highly inspired , but the greatest differences is that there is actually only 1 resource, and you recycle it in 2 different ways at the same time. And self sufficiency is actually possible. Also the hab is not a timer but a multiplier to give an incentive to not cram a gazillion kerbals on a 10y trip... 

Note: USI LS is horrible without MKS, lacks any possible way to recover fertilizer or hab time, and no workaround .

Edited June 3, 2020 by AntaresMC

[Pthigrivi]

7 hours ago, AntaresMC said:

Note: USI LS is horrible without MKS, lacks any possible way to recover fertilizer or hab time, and no workaround .

I only play with USI-LS and no MKS (MKS is just way too much micromanagement for me). With USI-LS alone you can produce fertilizer with the Convert-o-tron 125, which is what makes it work I think. Im not crazy about the way USI handles hab time generally (one of my few critiques), but I haven't had trouble hitting really long stats. Mainly I don't like the idea of homesickness so I turn that off. It seems like Kerbals are adventurous space-bound critters so they should be pretty happy living off-world so long as they've got space to move around. Especially for KSP 2 I think habitation should be a single value, though it could be produced through couple of different factors. Similar to USI modules could have hab ratings and some could have hab multipliers. If you keep it simple and forgiving like that you could make producing space easy with a little room for optimization. In the end if you're trying to keep track of a lot of colonies and vessels its nice to have easy to understand values and simple headline numbers.

So like:

Life Support (1/100) = LS quantity * Recycler efficiency / Kerbal 
Habitation (1/100) = Total habitation rating * Amenity multiplier / Kerbal

I do like the sound of your version though  

Edited June 3, 2020 by Pthigrivi

[RyanRising]

My blocker features are the same as they ever were - any sort of microtransactions, DLC on launch, always-online functionality, or DRM. It seems more likely that those things will happen what with Take-Two's hostile takeover - every promise Star Theory has made about KSP 2 seems pretty much meaningless now.

[AntaresMC]

3 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

I only play with USI-LS and no MKS (MKS is just way too much micromanagement for me). With USI-LS alone you can produce fertilizer with the Convert-o-tron 125, which is what makes it work I think. Im not crazy about the way USI handles hab time generally (one of my few critiques), but I haven't had trouble hitting really long stats. Mainly I don't like the idea of homesickness so I turn that off. It seems like Kerbals are adventurous space-bound critters so they should be pretty happy living off-world so long as they've got space to move around. Especially for KSP 2 I think habitation should be a single value, though it could be produced through couple of different factors. Similar to USI modules could have hab ratings and some could have hab multipliers. If you keep it simple and forgiving like that you could make producing space easy with a little room for optimization. In the end if you're trying to keep track of a lot of colonies and vessels its nice to have easy to understand values and simple headline numbers.

So like:

Life Support (1/100) = LS quantity * Recycler efficiency / Kerbal 
Habitation (1/100) = Total habitation rating * Amenity multiplier / Kerbal

I do like the sound of your version though  

Ah, didnt know, thank you!

But hab timers are non renewable without med bay, and thats a pain as I love colonies/outposts.

The hab time can be easily fixed by removing the time. Just aefficiency multiplier to not cram 100 kerbals in a minmus SSTO and get literally as many free lvl3 as you want... Also gives a reason to use rings and cupoulas. There is no need for a 2nd time sensitive resource, we only need one to care about it, more is just gameplay complexity without deph and awkardness, and on top non renewable

Edit: I hate the micro, but is overcomeable with good design. KSPIE helps a lot as allows single launch mega thinggies

Edited June 3, 2020 by AntaresMC

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, AntaresMC said:

Ah, didnt know, thank you!

But hab timers are non renewable without med bay, and thats a pain as I love colonies/outposts.

The hab time can be easily fixed by removing the time. Just aefficiency multiplier to not cram 100 kerbals in a minmus SSTO and get literally as many free lvl3 as you want... Also gives a reason to use rings and cupoulas. There is no need for a 2nd time sensitive resource, we only need one to care about it, more is just gameplay complexity without deph and awkardness, and on top non renewable

Edit: I hate the micro, but is overcomeable with good design. KSPIE helps a lot as allows single launch mega thinggies

Hab timers are renewable with just a few ships - just transfer your Kerbals around a bit.  *Homesickeness* timers aren't renewable, but that's separate.

[AntaresMC]

15 hours ago, DStaal said:

Hab timers are renewable with just a few ships - just transfer your Kerbals around a bit.  *Homesickeness* timers aren't renewable, but that's separate.

Ok X/, but in practice theyre the same, dont matter how much ha it has, fhey get homesick anyway, and are literally same values... home times suck and threre should be an extra feature of MKS. And stil, I dont matter hab times but I dont like it, prefer an efficiency nerf or something, but not a timer, we've got yet a timer, dont need another :/.

for future references, when I say hab is usially both, if say hab-home are separate. I treat them collectively, as theyre the same affected by the same, but for some reason, one is renewable and the other nope, I think that mechanic is even silly...

Edited June 4, 2020 by AntaresMC

[HansonKerman]

anything that makes it not KSP’s Portal 2

[The_Stinky_Broccoli]

I would say no mods for multi player is my biggest concern but I am also worried that current mods like opt and bda will not be updated.

[Xenon2462]

On 8/31/2019 at 4:53 PM, DStaal said:

Blocker features: Not being released to Mac.    There's probably some others, but that's the big one.

I don't think scott manley would like that

[Pthigrivi]

On 6/4/2020 at 7:07 AM, AntaresMC said:

Ok X/, but in practice theyre the same, dont matter how much ha it has, fhey get homesick anyway, and are literally same values... home times suck and threre should be an extra feature of MKS. And stil, I dont matter hab times but I dont like it, prefer an efficiency nerf or something, but not a timer, we've got yet a timer, dont need another :/.

for future references, when I say hab is usially both, if say hab-home are separate. I treat them collectively, as theyre the same affected by the same, but for some reason, one is renewable and the other nope, I think that mechanic is even silly...

This is my beef with the home timer, and also the reason I think LS should be a single resource. Does it matter if you have a bunch of food but you've run out of air or water? Just abstract and combine them into one value. I can see why in KSP 1 having hab on a timer makes sense, because kerbals might be okay crammed into a capsule for a trip to the moon but not for a multi-year trip to Duna and back. Given KSP 2's scope though I think its better to assume if they've got enough space to be happy for a couple of months they'll be happy indefinitely. For early spam-in-a-can missions probably players just wont need to worry about the bonuses good habitation stats provide. I've gone back and forth on whether I think this should be true for LS as well, but Im leaning toward recommending that it have a time component that can be overcome by adding the mass of sufficient greenhouses. This would provide the challenge of break-even points with recyclers and greenhouses on shorter missions but also ensure that you could set and forget colonies and large stations. On short missions with small vessels you'd be best with a tank of LS, a little longer and the mass of a recycler would pay for itself, and for anything longer than a few hundred days you really want greenhouses for closed-loop self sufficiency. If that were the case Life Support should really be displayed in days, and once the the timer ran out kerbals would become 'hungry' resulting in toggleable consequences.

Life Support (D) = Current food / (Consumption rate/kerbal * number of kerbals * recycler efficiency)

Edited June 5, 2020 by Pthigrivi

[AntaresMC]

1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said:

This is my beef with the home timer, and also the reason I think LS should be a single resource. Does it matter if you have a bunch of food but you've run out of air or water? Just abstract and combine them into one value. I can see why in KSP 1 having hab on a timer makes sense, because kerbals might be okay crammed into a capsule for a trip to the moon but not for a multi-year trip to Duna and back. Given KSP 2's scope though I think its better to assume if they've got enough space to be happy for a couple of months they'll be happy indefinitely. For early spam-in-a-can missions probably players just wont need to worry about the bonuses good habitation stats provide. I've gone back and forth on whether I think this should be true for LS as well, but Im leaning toward recommending that it have a time component that can be overcome by adding the mass of sufficient greenhouses. This would provide the challenge of break-even points with recyclers and greenhouses on shorter missions but also ensure that you could set and forget colonies and large stations. On short missions with small vessels you'd be best with a tank of LS, a little longer and the mass of a recycler would pay for itself, and for anything longer than a few hundred days you really want greenhouses for closed-loop self sufficiency.

1st) kerbals aint humen, they probably dont have the same psicology, in fact as they are photosynthetic/nitrifiers according to KSPIE cupoula XD. No seriously, we can only assume they work better the more space they have cause there can be more tools and things... but no assuming of timer. Also if dont matter having food and water as a same, why exclude psicology? Lets say they have really good VR. And 2 resources is not something KSP does a lot...

Also fully closed loop is impossible outside land, what kills a bit of the purpose of going far away and having orbital stations. Id say food, recyclers/agros (or better both and a synergy mechanic).

Homesickness suck. I believe in a hab time of constant work multiplier of 1-1/(emptySeats-kerbals) with bonus like rings, habs or cupoulas capped at 1, or something like that. A time limit just fVcks off the idea of long stays...

[The_Stinky_Broccoli]

if the screen when launching a rocket (forgot what its called) is confusing and ugly it would not be worth 59.99$ to me.

[AntaresMC]

2 hours ago, epicfailure2020 said:

if the screen when launching a rocket (forgot what its called) is confusing and ugly it would not be worth 59.99$ to me.

Its quite expensive, and knowing who is in charge, there will be DLCs. I dont know how much Im willing to pay, mods in KSP1 are really good...

Just pray for Take2 not to screw it all up :C

Edited June 5, 2020 by AntaresMC

[monkep]

Microtransactions and if they simplify the games mechanics.

[The_Stinky_Broccoli]

probably the biggest concern for me and most people is that there will be a monthly payment or that you will need to pay to unlock different stuff (launch sites, parts, missions, planets)