[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[tetryds]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there is something wrong.

You say it flies well, but it even has positive Cm.

Same happens for all Mach numbers?

From the aerodynamic analysis alone it seems that you are trying to fly a brick.

[Hodo]

I appreciate the effort you took to reply, but I am only interested in nerfing the effect of the aerodynamic stresses, not in learning how to design and pilot all over again. It's a cool mechanic, but for me it has been taken a bit too far to be any fun. Back when i played IL-2 Sturmovic, a flight sim that thoroughly kicked my ass I didn't have to walk on eggshells the way I have to do in FAR now as it stands.

So I hope someone can point me at the relevant numbers and which way I have to adjust them, else i'll muck around some more on my own.

IL-2 is a really well done arcade game, with some sim modes in it but not that close to reality, this is why I quit playing it. FAR is pretty accurate for the type of craft we are putting together with superglue and duct tape. Most people build their aircraft wrong and then overpilot them and end up blowing them to peices and then blaming FAR for their failures. One of these days I will put together an instructional post on how to build an aircraft in FAR that wont blow apart because of a strong breeze.

[tetryds]

One of these days I will put together an instructional post on how to build an aircraft in FAR that wont blow apart because of a strong breeze.

I would be very interested on helping on such project.

Pulling 10 G's at mach 1.1 is not that hard.

[Juncoph]

FAR

+

Procedural Wings

=

I like this.

[ferram4]

@Bekiekutmoar: Yes, output_log.txt is always helpful.

Just based on the information though, I suspect something is preventing FAR configs from being correctly applied. Go through each and every one of your mods and make sure that they are installed to the correct paths in GameData; this sounds very much like an installation error.

[ArcFurnace]

Got a really bizarre error. Most of the stock UI elements, as well as some of FAR's UI elements, were flickering madly on the screen. FAR was partially unresponsive to button clicks (had to click repeatedly to get it to register, suspect it wasn't registering during the flickers). Reproduction steps unknown, will attempt to see if I can reliably reproduce it. At time of bug, had flown a small probe-controlled ship with empty command pod up to orbit to get Jeb out of an on-orbit vehicle without a parachute and was deorbiting. Bug continued until I landed the vehicle, closed game at that time. Posting here because output log implies it was a component of FAR that was throwing the errors. Full output log plus list of installed mods here.

Edit: Reopened game and launched another craft as a test. Issue does not seem to have persisted, which is good for playing the game, but less good for determining what caused the bug.

Edited August 4, 2014 by ArcFurnace

[steve_v]

Read through the thread, a fix you will find.

[Bekiekutmoar]

@Bekiekutmoar: Yes, output_log.txt is always helpful.

Just based on the information though, I suspect something is preventing FAR configs from being correctly applied. Go through each and every one of your mods and make sure that they are installed to the correct paths in GameData; this sounds very much like an installation error.

Well, I went through my mods and found out something's off with (perhaps the way I installed) Spaceplane Plus. While FAR does have effect on stock parts, parts from Spaceplane Plus seem unaffected and behave like flying in the stock, soupy atmosphere of Kerbin. See if I can trace the problem completely in the SP+ thread ... !

EDIT: turns out I had the now useless ModuleManager 2.2.0 installed instead of the newest one ... !

Edited August 4, 2014 by Bekiekutmoar

[TeiwazVIE]

Recently I installed B9 Aerospace ('cause I want them cargo bays) - yes, I know this is the FAR thread, but since B9 is closed (and Bac9 is "missing") this thread is the second best to go when it comes to airplane building - and I noticed some strange up & down flexing on the fuselage parts (think of that pencil wobbling while holding it with two fingers we all did when we're kids ). This can be solved by adding struts (making planes look ugly IMO) but I was curious if there might be another way to fix that, f.e. editing some values in part cfg files.

PS: I also found out that some of my issues with FAR were caused by a faulty ModuleManager install (thx, B9 landing gear going bonkers...) - had 2.2.0 in the right location, but somehow an older version got into the \plugins directory as well causing MM not to work.

[R0cketC0der]

Recently I installed B9 Aerospace ('cause I want them cargo bays) - yes, I know this is the FAR thread, but since B9 is closed (and Bac9 is "missing") this thread is the second best to go when it comes to airplane building - and I noticed some strange up & down flexing on the fuselage parts (think of that pencil wobbling while holding it with two fingers we all did when we're kids ). This can be solved by adding struts (making planes look ugly IMO) but I was curious if there might be another way to fix that, f.e. editing some values in part cfg files.

PS: I also found out that some of my issues with FAR were caused by a faulty ModuleManager install (thx, B9 landing gear going bonkers...) - had 2.2.0 in the right location, but somehow an older version got into the \plugins directory as well causing MM not to work.

Use Kerbal Joint reinforcement. It makes joints more rigid and reduces wobbling.

[TeiwazVIE]

Use Kerbal Joint reinforcement. It makes joints more rigid and reduces wobbling.

Already using it Forgot to mention that...

[R0cketC0der]

Already using it Forgot to mention that...

In that case you can put struts inside the parts. It's sometimes a bit tricky to get the camera in the correct position, but it works perfectly.

Oh and btw I forgot to mention earlier that bac9 actually returned to the forum some time ago and is working on an update for it. However it will still take some time and most likely break old saves.

[TeiwazVIE]

In that case you can put struts inside the parts. It's sometimes a bit tricky to get the camera in the correct position, but it works perfectly.

Oh and btw I forgot to mention earlier that bac9 actually returned to the forum some time ago and is working on an update for it. However it will still take some time and most likely break old saves.

Yeah, putting the struts inside the craft would be ok'ish. Still I was looking for another solution but if it seems like there is none...

Good to know that Bac9 is back though, I really like his art design. Sad to know that an update might brake save games though (something I as a developer myself am always torn uppon - I kinda understand it, but otherwise don't But I mostly blame Squad for that )

[Master Tao]

Another possibility would be to edit the node sizes for some of the parts (particularly S2). If you open the part config, there should be lines like this:

node_stack_??? = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1

The important bit is the last number, which is the node size. Increase that to 2 (2.5 m parts) or 3 (3.75 m parts).

Also, KJR hasn't increased part joint strength since the 0.23.5 update, unless you have RSS installed.

[ferram4]

KJR doesn't search for whether RSS is installed or not, it just stiffens things as best it can regardless. >_> Where do these rumors start?

[TeiwazVIE]

Another possibility would be to edit the node sizes for some of the parts (particularly S2). If you open the part config, there should be lines like this:

node_stack_??? = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1

The important bit is the last number, which is the node size. Increase that to 2 (2.5 m parts) or 3 (3.75 m parts).

Also, KJR hasn't increased part joint strength since the 0.23.5 update, unless you have RSS installed.

RSS is short for... ?

[R0cketC0der]

RSS is short for... ?

Real Solar System. However, as ferram pointed out, this is a false rumor of unknown origin.

[TeiwazVIE]

Where do these rumors start?

Where every rumor starts: the internet!

- - - Updated - - -

Real Solar System. However, as ferram pointed out, this is a false rumor of unknown origin.

Ah, yeah. Now that I've read it it's totally obvious Just couldn't make the connection.

[Master Tao]

Where do these rumors start?

That one's my fault. I'd read the changelog (heresy!) and the note under it and assumed that meant you were using a MM config to detect RSS.

[BahamutoD]

I was playing around with my fighter jets shooting AMRAAMs at each other, and when I destroyed one plane, I got this spam in the debug log:

ArgumentException: Value does not fall within the expected range.
  at ferram4.FARControlSys.OnDestroy () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ferram4.FARControlSys.OnGUI () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Callback:invoke_void__this__ ()

  at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Callback:invoke_void__this__ ()

  at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Callback:invoke_void__this__ ()

  at RenderingManager.OnGUI () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

If its not a known issue, I'll try to recreate it and investigate further.

[TheFireRodan]

@TheFireRodan: They will, but only if the shape they are shielding is draggier than the equivalent fairing shape. Basically, going and place fairings over a nice, aerodynamic shape just makes things worse because you're increasing the surface area drastically. Only add fairings for payloads that require them.

I i pretty much made a 5m bowl to catch air...

[BARCLONE]

I was playing around with my fighter jets shooting AMRAAMs at each other, and when I destroyed one plane, I got this spam in the debug log:

ArgumentException: Value does not fall within the expected range.
  at ferram4.FARControlSys.OnDestroy () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ferram4.FARControlSys.OnGUI () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Callback:invoke_void__this__ ()

  at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Callback:invoke_void__this__ ()

  at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Callback:invoke_void__this__ ()

  at RenderingManager.OnGUI () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

If its not a known issue, I'll try to recreate it and investigate further.

Ferram,

I'm seeing the same errors in my logs, and I don't do much with aircraft. I was in the middle of a Minmus mission...

KSP.log

Player.log

[ferram4]

Known issue, get the dev build on github.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Ferram,

I'm seeing the same errors in my logs, and I don't do much with aircraft. I was in the middle of a Minmus mission...

KSP.log

Player.log

Accompanied by GUI flicker as well, yes? I recently had this - taking a part on a flight for a contract, decoupled it and was met with this error and GUI flickering. Test part was scaled down with TweakScale if that matters and once landed, I quicksaved and reloaded and the game crashed.

Here is the output_log.txt. Hope it helps!

[BudgetHedgehog]

Known issue, get the dev build on github.

14.1.1? Coulda sworn I already had it (and the .version file of 0.14.1.1 on Github is the same as the one I have in my Gamedata) so unless I'm blind and can't find the dev release, I already have it..