[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Surefoot]

As a challenge, try to make best payload ratio launchers (that means less launcher and more payload), use precisely the amount of fuel needed, and leave zero debris in orbit And while optimizing, trying to find the best ascent profile, since it's different for each launcher.

[Agathorn]

Hey Ferram, just curious if FAR exposes any of its data to kOS?

[ferram4]

It doesn't, but I'll see if there's an efficient and easy way for me to make some of the stuff in Flight Data available.

[Agathorn]

It doesn't, but I'll see if there's an efficient and easy way for me to make some of the stuff in Flight Data available.

I've been looking into kOS recently, and it appears to have a plugin system that is specifically designed to allow mods to plug into it.

I haven't started actually using it yet, but it would be cool to be able to script things based on some of the more specialized flight data that FAR deals with.

[Boamere]

I've been looking into kOS recently, and it appears to have a plugin system that is specifically designed to allow mods to plug into it.

I haven't started actually using it yet, but it would be cool to be able to script things based on some of the more specialized flight data that FAR deals with.

Thats spooky, I was thinking the same thing

[Agathorn]

There are some issues with kOS. Basically the developer has vanished (hey it happens!), and the official release is not compatible with 0.23. There is however an un-official release by someone else that makes it work. I can confirm it works as i'm using it now.

Just as an FYI if you plan to look into it. I'm going to fork the project and see about making it more compatible with the Realism Revolution, because really its worth the trouble. So if FAR can plug some data into it that would be awesome.

Ferram do you make the source for FAR open? I wouldn't mind helping you make the connections if you want, and allow. I didn't see a source link for FAR so if you are keeping it closed that is fair as well.

[Surefoot]

.craft file for my blackbird-like speed demon:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pt6b6ds3ekiaiql/HyperJet%20Z.craft

mods needed: B9, P-wings. And of course FAR and KJR (that's a given if you're reading this )

It's capable of mach 6+. Beware, it's not very easy to fly (got a spiral unstability, use a joystick..), get a good ascent going for transonic then over 16km you'll be able to reduce AoA and start moving reallly fast. See how it wants to put itself into orbit by just flying straight. Have fun improving my design i'll be very pleased if you do so (by improving the yaw /roll coupling issues and eliminating the spiral mode, for example). Reducing the mach tuck at transonic is secondary. Reducing the pitch/roll coupling that seems to happen for no good reason (?? is there one ?) could be nice too.

(edit) i put the leading edge slats on an action group, dont forget to retract them when over mach 0.8...

Edited January 30, 2014 by Surefoot

[Swifty]

I have come across a bug / pressed something that makes my control surface stop deflecting.

Summary -

a) developed aircraft - aircraft working fine

add payload from sub-assembly into cargo bay (inside B9 HL cargo bay)

c) control surfaces no longer respond to inputs

Have pressed a button to turn of control surfaces?

If this is a bug I'll start trying to narrow down whats caused it.

Thanks

Link to craft file if anyone wants to have a play ( its awesome when the control surfaces work!) B9 and FAR only i think

Edited January 30, 2014 by Swifty

[junkie_business]

Is there any known problem with this and RasterPropMonitor and/or SCANsat? KSP was running fine until I installed those two simultaneously, then shortly after launch the ship disappears with an explosion sound effect. Then a wind effect plays.

[ferram4]

@Agathorn: FAR source code is included in the download, in the source folder. If you're going to look into working things out, try not to make any changes to most of the code, since I've been merging a lot of optimizations from a.g. into what's there.

@Swifty: Did you build and test the craft during one session, then cause the issue during another session? If so, did you install any other mods between these sessions? It might be caused by some type of mod breaking something. I was not able to recreate the issue, and access is restricted to the craft you posted.

I suspect that you added a mod that caused either FAR to break when you were initially designing it or you added a mod that caused it to break when you added the payload.

@junkie_business: Those shouldn't cause any issues, and I'd suspect another mod. Anyway, post a copy of your output_log.txt after causing the issue again and we'll see if that points anywhere.

[Raptor831]

I've been designing some shuttles, one minishuttle in the vein of the Dream Chaser, and one larger one more akin to the US Space Shuttle. I can get them to orbit, deorbit, and coast down all the way to KSC. Once I drop below mach 1 and have to come out of the dive, I can't actually land the blasted things. Didn't seem to have trouble landing before FAR, but I also had been doing powered landings. Both shuttle designs are unpowered dead-stick/glide landings.

So, does anyone have any tips on landing these types of craft with FAR installed? Or mind sharing your landing procedure from deorbit? Just want to compare notes and see if it's something dumb I'm doing.

[ferram4]

Well, how do you lose control? If it flips out after going subsonic, you need to either fly at a lower angle of attack (you're stalling) or shift the CoM forward / shift the aerodynamic center back, since it's becoming unstable. If you just can't get it to pull up on the final approach, you're probably bleeding off too much speed before trying to land, which means that you need to take a more aggressive descent path.

[darcgekco]

@Ferram: So, hypothetically, if this was not made out of wings, would FAR correctly model it as a (relatively) aerodynamic shape?

[ferram4]

If all of those parts were amalgamated into one single part, yes. Even if they weren't wings the simple fact that they are lots of tiny little plates facing every which way would confuse FAR about what it should do. FAR is built around assumptions about the general shape of the parts, most of which can be modeled as an elliptical frustum; something like that completely violates those assumptions and thus all the calculations will be garbage.

There's really not much I can do to fix things like that right now. Either have approximate aerodynamics with limitations on what you can do in real time, have accurate aerodynamics with no limits on what you can do but take hours of time processing it, or you can have stock "aerodynamics."

[darcgekco]

So the way FAR works for parts that aren't wings is by modelling them as elliptical frustums based on the size of the nodes at each end?

[Raptor831]

Well, how do you lose control? If it flips out after going subsonic, you need to either fly at a lower angle of attack (you're stalling) or shift the CoM forward / shift the aerodynamic center back, since it's becoming unstable. If you just can't get it to pull up on the final approach, you're probably bleeding off too much speed before trying to land, which means that you need to take a more aggressive descent path.

It doesn't flip out by itself once I'm subsonic. It's stable enough to fly in each stage of flight, it's just my piloting skills that are failing me! I'll try a steeper descent and see if that helps me out.

[RoboRay]

You're still not saying what actual problem you're having. Can you not keep the nose up? Can you not control the direction of flight? Can you not reduce the vertical velocity enough during the landing flare? The possibilities are endless and without any specific description of what's happening there's really not any way to offer help.

[junkie_business]

@junkie_business: Those shouldn't cause any issues, and I'd suspect another mod. Anyway, post a copy of your output_log.txt after causing the issue again and we'll see if that points anywhere.

I removed FAR, and the problem never happened. I reinstalled it and the problem returned. It always happens about 50 seconds after launch.Here is the log.

A KSP without FAR is like a day without sunshine.

[Mecripp]

Far don't play nice with other mods like KW and AmericanPack if you make it off the launch pad at the first turn around 6k to 10k your rocket is going to fall apart.

Should add with boosters like the Ares_SRB that is.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Mecripp2

[a__gun]

Is the shielded docking port meant to be any more/less aerodynamic when it is opened/closed? My testing suggests not....

Far don't play nice with other mods like KW....

How does it not work with KW? Seems fine to me.

[Agathorn]

@Ferram: So, hypothetically, if this was not made out of wings, would FAR correctly model it as a (relatively) aerodynamic shape?

If all of those parts were amalgamated into one single part, yes. Even if they weren't wings the simple fact that they are lots of tiny little plates facing every which way would confuse FAR about what it should do. FAR is built around assumptions about the general shape of the parts, most of which can be modeled as an elliptical frustum; something like that completely violates those assumptions and thus all the calculations will be garbage.

There's really not much I can do to fix things like that right now. Either have approximate aerodynamics with limitations on what you can do in real time, have accurate aerodynamics with no limits on what you can do but take hours of time processing it, or you can have stock "aerodynamics."

I would imagine if you welded that fuselage though that it would turn out pretty good for FAR since it would be seeing one part that is overall correct?

[Agathorn]

@Agathorn: FAR source code is included in the download, in the source folder. If you're going to look into working things out, try not to make any changes to most of the code, since I've been merging a lot of optimizations from a.g. into what's there.

Ah the one place I didn't look

[ferram4]

@darcgekco: It models them as elliptical frustums based on the approximate shape of the mesh, using attach node sizes to properly handle the very blunt sections at either end.

@junkie_business: There are a few errors that I see in there, particularly caused by and out-of-date ExsurgentEngineering. I don't know if that's causing problems down the road or not, but it is breaking some MJ stuff. I'm not sure what ModuleDataTransmitter belongs to, but that's breaking too. Then (what I think you're talking about) involves the game losing track of the GPU for some reason, which i've only seen happen when someone alt-tabs. If that's the case, try updating your drivers and see if that works. I've never seen anything like this happen.

@a__gun: Handling animating parts properly is in the "things to do" category. I've had some issues getting the mesh detection to work properly for some of these things.

[Fhamdi]

I have Real Solar System Installed and Ferram Aerospace both installed. However, the atmosphere density seems to be still at scale for the original kerbal. Can any one help me set it to however accurate it is supposed to be (Cuberoot(10) I think)?

[junkie_business]

Thanks ferram. You've assisted a similar problem in the past, where a ship would do the same thing on reentry. The last update fixed that problem though.

Strange though, since KSP has been stable for months, until I installed RasterPropMonitor and SCANsat last night. I'll try the latest EE.