[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[blowfish]

Hey ferram, do you have any idea why this fuselage might be causing so much drag (much more than any other part on the craft)?

Maybe it has to do with the stack nodes? The node on the nosecone is defined as size 1 but the nodes on the fuselage have no size definition.

Curiously, the coefficient of drag is showing up much higher in the flight scene than in the editor aero sim under the same conditions.

Edited January 12, 2015 by blowfish

[tetryds]

Hey ferram, do you have any idea why this fuselage might be causing so much drag (much more than any other part on the craft)?

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj251/blowfishpro/KSP/Debug/screenshot29_zps2c7b0b95.png

Maybe it has to do with the stack nodes? The node on the nosecone is defined as size 1 but the nodes on the fuselage have no size definition.

Known issue, fixed in dev build.

Update your craft before you launch, just add a decoupler pointing down and fire it before you fly and it will fix that.

[blowfish]

Update your craft before you launch, just add a decoupler pointing down and fire it before you fly and it will fix that.

I was using the dev build, but the trick with the decoupler worked - thanks. Is there any way to get it to update without using a decoupler?

[tetryds]

I was using the dev build, but the trick with the decoupler worked - thanks. Is there any way to get it to update without using a decoupler?

That may be because you have a modded part as the nosecone?

I think that opening and closing cargo bays also works.

[ferram4]

Oh come on. It's STILL not fixed?!

All this work to deal with part clipping. You know what, I'll see if I can force an update right after everything loads. Maybe that'll fix it.

[smjjames]

Update your craft before you launch, just add a decoupler pointing down and fire it before you fly and it will fix that.

Is this the latest dev build? https://github.com/ferram4/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/tree/master/GameData/FerramAerospaceResearch

No idea how to download the latest dev build, the only download I can see is for the 0.14.6 one.

[blowfish]

Oh come on. It's STILL not fixed?!

All this work to deal with part clipping. You know what, I'll see if I can force an update right after everything loads. Maybe that'll fix it.

Much appreciated, and sorry it's causing you so much trouble - not quite sure how the math behind part clipping would affect my craft but I can see how it would be a pain to deal with in general.

Is this the latest dev build? https://github.com/ferram4/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/tree/master/GameData/FerramAerospaceResearch

Yes. The easiest way to download it is to go the the main page and click download repository on the right side, then just copy over GameData/FerramAerospaceResearch as usual.

[steve_v]

alias update-far='wget https://github.com/ferram4/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/archive/master.zip -O Ferram-Aerospace-Research-`date -I`.zip'

... bloody auto url tags.

Edited January 13, 2015 by steve_v

[Behemoth1702]

alias update-far='wget https://github.com/ferram4/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/archive/master.zip -O Ferram-Aerospace-Research-`date -I`.zip'

... bloody auto url tags.

What's that? Some kind of cmd batch command or what haha

[steve_v]

It's a bash alias, AKA a lazy tool

alias for "get latest FAR from github, name it like "Ferram-Aerospace-Research-2015-01-13.zip"" 'cause I keep forgetting the url

Edited January 13, 2015 by steve_v

[*Aqua*]

I cleaned out my install to try some other mods. After the installation of FAR I have serious performance problems in flight and in the VAB/SPH.

1) In flight my framerate slows down so much that the time displays turns yellow the whole time and sometimes flickers red. This really drives the fun out of the game.

2) A more serious problem is using using the BoxSat A.02c mod (including prototype parts). I tried to build a satellite lifter with 4 satellites.

No problems with that.

[spoiler= Grabbing the satellite]

Grabbing stops the game for about 20 seconds. Nothing can be done during that time. I tried to make a screenshot but the Steam screenshot manager could only take a shot after the lag was over.

An interesting fact is that I grabbed the satellite with 4x symmetry and I didn't saw it trying to attach it 4 times. Maybe it's only visible in the first frame after the lag.

Attaching the satellites to the docking ports locked the game again for a long time (20 seconds more or less).

Hardware:

AMD Phenom II X4 955 (4 cores @ 3.2 GHz)

8 GM RAM

Software:

Windows 8.1 x64

KSP 0.90 x32

Mods:

output_log.txt: http://sharetext.org/xAfT (1.3 MB!)

only the logs while inside the editor: http://sharetext.org/JIYg

FAR somehow has a problem with symmetry. I guess BoxSat just amplifies this. To prove that I built something while only using stock parts:

[spoiler=]

There was only a small lag (< 1 s) when placing the parts in symmetry but it was noticable. The debug log says there's something wrong.

output_log.txt: http://sharetext.org/Mgw2 (1 MB)

logs while inside the editor: http://sharetext.org/bOgj

(I quitted the game by Alt+F4.)

So... did I something wrong? Maybe it's my fault.

Edited January 13, 2015 by *Aqua*

[ferram4]

Well, there's nothing spamming the log. Maybe your computer just isn't powerful enough. Alternatively, you're launching large part count rockets and there's nothing to be done to fix that.

Lag in the editor when placing things is somewhat expected; I've tried to optimize it, but there aren't many tools available to make sure that everything gets updated as it should be. 20 seconds of it gone is really, really odd, unless you're trying to attach 50-part rockets in symmetry. I suppose I should just not try to update aerodynamics in preparation for someone placing a part to make that easier. Not much else I can do about that, to be honest.

Symmetry counterparts being borked indicates something wrong in the stock game. FAR doesn't change symmetry, it just reads off of it, so that points to something else wrong.

[*Aqua*]

20 seconds of it gone is really, really odd, unless you're trying to attach 50-part rockets in symmetry.

The satellite in my example only had 7 parts. The more symmetry I used the longer the lag lasted. I guess a moderate 20 part satellite with 8x sym. would lag several minutes.

Maybe it's something which only occurs with the BoxSat mod but I'm not sure.

I have VS 2012 installed. I can compile FAR for debug purposes. Are there methods in the code of which I should measure the execution time? You wrote a lot of code!

[ferram4]

If it's lagging that much, something else is eating up your processor. It'll hang for a second or two at the worst for a 10-part thing being attached in 6x symmetry, but if there's 20 seconds gone, something else is preventing FAR from doing the work it wants to do.

You can try looking into measuring the execution time for updating all the FAR stuff OnAboutToBeAttached or whatever it's called (I honestly don't remember), but I think that some other process is hogging your processor or that your antivirus is constantly interrupting KSP or something.

[*Aqua*]

Something weird is going on. I compiled your code and only uncommented the print() method in the FARPartModule.OnEditorAttach(). I copied my KSP install somewhere and removed every mod except BoxSat, FAR and stock NASAmission and Squad. Then I replaced your FerramAerospaceResearch.dll with mine and now the lag only lasts about one second or two.

Then I have overwritten my dll with yours and the huge lag returns.

My conclusion is that I have no idea what's going on. First I guessed we have different versions of the .Net framework installed but then I remembered that the code is executed by Mono - which should be identical. Maybe it's the .Net compiler?

Edit:

The size of the dlls are different, too.

original: 263 KB

mine: 246 KB

So my compiler definitely does something different.

Edited January 13, 2015 by *Aqua*

[ferram4]

Well, you're compiling a dev version, not the stable version. That would do it.

[*Aqua*]

That makes sense. You fixed my problem before you knew it would occur. Genius! ^^

[TeeGee]

Hi everyone! I need some help with airplanes.

I've built a single seat fighter that flies pretty well (aside from SAS causing wobbling in the roll axis) but I can't figure out how to use FLAPS for take off and landing. I've tried both positive and negative flap deflection but my nose keeps plummeting whenever I activate flaps for takeoff and land. I have 2 elevons on my wings with the innermost flap activated as the only flaps. I've tried 10 degree flaps and even 30 degree flaps but the same stuff keeps happening.

I know that a flaps function is to increase lift AND DRAG to control speed during landings and takeoffs, but I don't know how to use them properly yet. Any advice would be appreciated.

Edited January 13, 2015 by TeeGee

[tetryds]

@TeeGee: Use leading edges and keep a higher AoA while approaching, also don't deploy flaps if you are too fast.

It's normal that your nose will drop down when you activate flaps, if you don't want that to happen you need to move your wing forward.

You also need more pitch control, try the advanced canard instead, with about 20 degrees of control.

Flaps are very complicated to use on fighters.

Also, you don't want to have any single red Lateral Derivate, add more tail (then double it, then double it again).

Add dihedral angle on your horizontal stabilizers, it will be enough to fix your roll instability and also increase their efficiency

(though the best way to do it would be add dihedral on the wings then anhedral on the horizontal stabilizers to increase their efficiency even more, at expense of lift, but you would need to mind the numbers to balance it out).

Yeah, it's not just about not being red, it's not hard to make an unflyable all green plane.

Edited January 13, 2015 by tetryds

[Hodo]

Hi everyone! I need some help with airplanes.

I've built a single seat fighter that flies pretty well (aside from SAS causing wobbling in the roll axis) but I can't figure out how to use FLAPS for take off and landing. I've tried both positive and negative flap deflection but my nose keeps plummeting whenever I activate flaps for takeoff and land. I have 2 elevons on my wings with the innermost flap activated as the only flaps. I've tried 10 degree flaps and even 30 degree flaps but the same stuff keeps happening.

I know that a flaps function is to increase lift AND DRAG to control speed during landings and takeoffs, but I don't know how to use them properly yet. Any advice would be appreciated.

http://i.imgur.com/RdpZhl4.png

http://i.imgur.com/add0mu1.png

http://i.imgur.com/J02Hdj0.png

http://i.imgur.com/g0JQkDS.png

As Tetryds said. Or you could just slide your wing forward just a bit so that your flaps are in line with your CoM. This will help with the nose tilt issue. I rarely use more than one notch of flaps on take off, and 3 on landing.

[TeeGee]

@TeeGee: Use leading edges and keep a higher AoA while approaching, also don't deploy flaps if you are too fast.

It's normal that your nose will drop down when you activate flaps, if you don't want that to happen you need to move your wing forward.

You also need more pitch control, try the advanced canard instead, with about 20 degrees of control.

Flaps are very complicated to use on fighters.

Also, you don't want to have any single red Lateral Derivate, add more tail (then double it, then double it again).

Add dihedral angle on your horizontal stabilizers, it will be enough to fix your roll instability and also increase their efficiency

(though the best way to do it would be add dihedral on the wings then anhedral on the horizontal stabilizers to increase their efficiency even more, at expense of lift, but you would need to mind the numbers to balance it out).

Yeah, it's not just about not being red, it's not hard to make an unflyable all green plane.

Actually I decided to use slats and increased my control authority via increasing flap deflection for pitch and roll. I also activated flaps for BOTH aerilons; solved the problem! The tail aerilon is one of, if not THE, most important control surface during landing.

With my current config, I set my takeoff flaps at setting 1 deflection (10 degrees), throttle up and let go of my pitch controls and watch her take off by herself. It's beautiful. Then I swish swash between flap delfections during landing and use my airbrakes to slow her down further. I make landings easy now.

My roll lateral derivative is an issue though.. I treat it with FAR flight assist to help calm my craft down during flight.

Thanks for the reply though!

Edited January 13, 2015 by TeeGee

[Dr. Death]

Dr. Death: he can't stop people from posting, and they were flooding the thread with messages about FAR not working when it was 64-bit Windows KSP that wasn't (and still isn't) working. 64-bit Windows KSP is broken. Do not use it. If you really need 64-bits, use Linux.

I dont have linux, but at least Ferrum could do a tutorial or explain how you can enable the 64-bits version. MM did a good job in explaining that the 64-bit version of KSP is unstable in the startup screen

If you really really need it, you can compile it yourself, without that check. I did it, and so far it works. The best part? If you're the kind of user who hacks and compiles plugins, you probably have a good grasp of what comes from, and decency to test spotted errors with supported version before reporting anything.

I am well aware i can do that, problem is that i dont know how, and the guy who did it and then uploaded it for 64-bits users didn't updated it from the .25 version.

[tetryds]

@TeeGee: apply the tips I gave about dihedral angle and these issues will simply disapear!

Maybe more dihedral on main wings, as I see you put anhedral on the horizontal stabilizers (or is that just illusion?).

Edited January 13, 2015 by tetryds

[BudgetHedgehog]

I am well aware i can do that, problem is that i dont know how

Then learn. Or get Linux (it's free!).

[TeeGee]

@TeeGee: apply the tips I gave about dihedral angle and these issues will simply disapear!

Maybe more dihedral on main wings, as I see you put anhedral on the horizontal stabilizers (or is that just illusion?).

Illusion; both wings and tail are mid wing. Should I put the horizontal stabilizer anhedral and the wings dihedral?