Sundog??? Labs WIP Parts Pack

[wildkittyv1]

Yeah, the question marks are because I'm unsure as to what I want to call this. I was watching Scott Manley's vids and he was playing some old space game called Sundog and it rang a bell, along with being an atmospheric phenomenon. Anyway, I'm just making this post since I have a bit of work to actually show and almost have what I need for the groundwork of the parts completely laid out.

I did some work on converting NovaPunch to .16 standards before I knew Tiberion was going to be doing it, and it got me interested in making my own parts pack that was more in line with the stock parts from both an aesthetic and functional standpoint. I also have some ideas in mind for specialized engines and capsule combos for .17 in getting to specific planets/return trips without being OP for generic missions. For now I'm just going to put up some images of stuff I've worked on, although almost all of the models for the engines are different and some of the textures have been changed. I'll post some small changes below each image of the engines and I should have updated ones tomorrow since I need to reshape some parts and rework the UV maps to accommodate the changes made.

These are all 1M engines at the moment.

Pardon the paragraph below, but it summarizes basically everything that needs to be worked on with the textures. For this engine I still have a few bracing bars and "joint" bits to add in, but overall I'm pleased with the concept.

This is a triple-nozzle engine that has the best versions of the textures applied to it so far. I took screenshots of the parts from this angle to show the bit of work I need to do on them to make the blending at the edges more seamless. It's a pretty simple fix that I have already worked out how to do, but just haven't gotten around to doing it yet: copy and flip from one side, apply it to the opposite and blend it at the new seam where I don't have to worry about edges. The "caution tape" is the other major part that needs work, but I mostly threw that together quickly just to see how it would look with the engines so they look similar to the stock parts. The pack is going to be using an orange/white/grey scheme and the tanks (I may do a single 3m engine and tank as a heavy lift module, but for now I'm going to stick with 1m and 2m) will be colored to differentiate stages as is done IRL. There will be at least 2, and possibly 3 different sizes for each tank, except for larger than 2m which will have the one meant for heavy lifting.

This is the first engine I worked on that I applied the textures to. I was happy with the way the outside and inside of the nozzle looked, but dissatisfied with the fuel lines and yellow ball part that really serves no purpose other than breaking the part up a bit. I worked on some more metal-colored textures (3 or 4 different values) and radial versions of them to apply to circular parts so they blend better with the parts around them while differing enough to differentiate them. I expanded the joints where the fuel lines connect and have to apply the new metal colors to them as seen in the first image. I also lightened the texture of the fuel line and played with the scaling on it and unwrapping of it so it looked better/similar to the stock parts and that difference can also be seen in the first image. The nozzle on this engine has also been reshaped and the new version of the model isn't shown because I have to reshape the other parts around it, which I haven't done yet.

This engine has a smaller vertical profile and is intended as an additional lander engine. As I said, these parts are intended to run alongside, but not replace the stock parts and I feel an additional lander engine would be useful for heavier payloads. The changes made to this that are not seen are a nozzle reshaping (I showed the untextured images on reddit and it was suggested to reshape some of them so they abide by our guidelines IRL more, so I obliged since I was asking for feedback) and extrusion of the fuel line and bracing joints so they have a more physical feel.

Just another engine. I might nix this as a 1m engine and bump it up to 2m since I don't want to crowd the parts as packs like NovaPunch have sort of done. It's great to have variety, but you really only need so much for each stage and I want to provide variety, but keep utility in mind so parts do not become unnecessary or unused. Each engine will have a specific purpose and I've worked enough with configs and testing when I converted the NP to .16 values that I feel I can achieve this. Again, this engine has had its nozzles slightly reshaped and the joint extruded to give it more character.

Final engine I'll be showing in this first post. I need to add a few fuel lines/connectors and the joints have been extruded for aesthetics. Nothing special to note here besides it needs a few small touches to finish it off, and the nozzles have been reshaped as on all of the other engines.

Anyway, that's it for this first post, even if it's a lot of text. I still have a bit of small work to do on each engine in regards to tweaks and have yet to decide upon a texture for the tops where they will connect to the tanks. I've yet to import any of these into unity, though I have downloaded it but not the KSP part tools. I've seen some stuff on doing that and it doesn't seem overly complex, but any help would be much appreciated. I'm also going to be doing some small radial engines, adapters and SRBs, but the modeling for them will be cake compared to the engines with the experience I've gained in my short time. The biggest hurdle is getting the textures sorted out so I can just copy/paste everything onto the UV files.

All in all, I'm happy with what I've gotten so far and will have fun making the pack. I'd be interested in working with a coder for some purpose-built stuff for the interplanetary missions we will undoubtedly be carrying out if anyone out there is looking for a willing modeler/texturer. I know what I have here is pretty preliminary, but better and more complete stuff should be finished by tomorrow night and I'll post the updated images of the parts tomorrow night.

Cheers and all that and if you can give me some guidance on getting these things into unity it would be much appreciated.

Edited September 16, 2012 by wildkittyv1

[dishycourier]

Saw your post on reddit a few days ago. Really good work! I hope to see them ingame soon.

[LaydeeDem]

Oh look! Another user who can model engines better than me. :<

Oh well. If you need any help with engine glow or Unity you can PM me.

[wildkittyv1]

Just updating tonight with some images of the update models (some extruded joints and reshaped nozzles) with the textures applied, a few notes on each and an example image of a fuel tank. Nothing crazy got done today as I was busy watching some football. Engines are in the same order sans the one I posted first in the initial post since that didn't change. Just wanted to get these up so people can get a better idea of what the engines look like. The same problems with seams apply and some colors of textures will change. In regards to fuel lines that circle all the engine nozzles, I will likely taper them off on the side opposite where they connect so they mirror real life a bit better.

Nothing much to say about this one other than I need to move the orange stripe - put it in the wrong place. I was undecided on whether I wanted the joints/connectors for the fuel lines to be dark or light colored, so I tried both and I think I like the lighter color better, so it shows up more in the next images.

Forgot to extend the bottoms of the fuel lines on this one, but it's no biggie. I'll probably add a circling fuel line to this since it's the only one lacking it at the moment. You can see the reshaped nozzle, which caused the short lines in that one spot. Experimented with a dark brown to break up the color a bit and I generally am pleased, but something weird is going on with the support braces there so I'll probably have to remodel the parts because I just can't get them to take the texture for some reason regardless of what I do. Will likely change the color of the 2nd "tier" so it's a bit darker for contrast, and will probably change the color of the joints on the vertical piece to the right.

Pretty happy with this one so far, but the braces will likely be reshaped and connected in some way as they look a little frail to me at the moment.

Generally happy with this one, too, but I'll be fiddling with the textures on the little ball parts on the right side.

Quick example of a tank I threw together. It looks squatty and I wouldn't use as many vertical (if any) stripes on a tank this size (1m x 1m) - those will likely be reserved for the longer tanks. I'm considering making the 1m tanks have an orange base with grey/white accents and having the 2m tanks use the white base with orange and grey accents. I plan on this because if I do indeed add a 3m heavy-lift stage, I plan on making it entirely orange with small white/grey accents to give it some color and a lot of rockets I've seen images of have solid color initial stages and I like the way it looks over a mostly white/black color scheme. I'll probably add some accent pieces to each tank to give them some character so they're not just bland cylinders; these are what will likely take the grey.

Anyway, just some image updates tonight. I'll probably model some SRBs tomorrow since they're much simpler than engines. I've got some ideas in mind for some stuff I can do pretty quickly and I'll hammer out a color scheme for the tanks.

[Cby]

hmm, I'm bookmarking this page. Very nice

[wildkittyv1]

Alright guys, for tonight I have 4 SRB models and rough textures to upload. I'm fairly happy with how they turned out, but all of them will be updated with small details like bolts/seams and panels to give them a bit of character because they look quite boring at the moment. The reason I'm tossing these up is to get some feedback on the color scheme as I have it at the moment.

What I'm looking for from anyone who cares to comment is if you think the caps on the top of the SRBs should stay or go. I want the pack to work alongside the stock parts, so they're not going to be super powerful or anything (the tank capacities and weights are going to mirror stock stuff and engine ISPs will be based on stock ISPs as wel and follow the same pattern), but I want a standard style rocket to be possible (large first stage with two SRBs, then taper off to smaller upper stages), so they will be more powerful (but much heavier) than the stock stuff. I don't think SRBs should have stuff stacked on top of them, but if you guys seem to want them without caps (and I can model caps that can be placed on top of them if the user chooses), then let me know. I just don't want to clutter the parts folders like large parts packs like NovaPunch have done. This is why I'm uploading them with very basic textures. I may also add small pipes the way I have with the engines, but as of right now the SRBs are all one contiguous piece.

I looked up what I could regarding real life SRBs and used some blueprint style photos as background images and I did my best matching the angles of the caps to them. They still seem a little off to me, but that might just be because it's in Blender and not the game where I have other parts to compare it to for scale.

Anyway, time for the images. Measurements listed are width (diameter) by height (NOT counting the engine nozzle - all nozzles on the SRBs will be smaller in height than the engine nozzles I roughly think they should be used with).

This is a 1m by 5.5m SRB.

The detail image is to show that the orange/grey stripes at the bottom do have a profile and are not just random strips of color, and that the dark metal bands that appear on the SRB also have height to them. I may lessen the vertical length of them, but keep their protrusion size so that it seems more dramatic and shows up better - I'll have to get the parts into the game first and see how they look with the lighting engine. I didn't see any SRBs with the rounded cap, but I like the way it looks and I want the SRBs to vary at least a small bit from each other. This model also has the light grey rounded by beneath the orange/grey peaks as I saw that feature on the interior of the SRB skirt on a few images I Googled.

This SRB is .75m by 4m.

This one would be slightly more powerful than the new, larger stock SRB added in .16. The detail shows that the stripes and bands on the part do have a profile and aren't just strips of color. This model used the more common skirt I saw, just receding into the part and then having the nozzle protrude from that. I'm not sure on the shape of the cone, but I modeled it after a blueprint of another SRB and fit it as closely as possible. It might just be the contrast, but it's something I'll have to see in game.

A .5m by 3.5m SRB. I think this would be used on upper stages, or could possibly be used as a take along for interplanetary missions to planets/moons with higher gravity to give a bit of extra boost during launch from their surface while saving fuel. It would increase the amount of fuel needed to descend, but I have a few ideas with parachutes for planets with a thick enough atmosphere. Again, not sure on the shape of the cone but it looks better than the previous model. I don't know where there is a seam in the texture on the cone, but it is not there when zoomed in.

A 1.5m by 8m SRB.

The cone is 1.5m in height and the skirt is approximately .5m with the nozzle extending 1m beyond its lowest edge. The detail shows the tapering tip which was modeled after the SRBs used on the European Ariane 5. Those SRBs did not have an angled nozzle, but I did it for aesthetics. I will be fiddling with its angle and edges, but overall I feel it looks alright for my first go at that shape. I might round off the tip to have it look more like the Ariane's SRBs.

Well, that's it for this post. I might go back and update the original post with the latest images of the parts and their textures. For now, I'm just looking for some feedback on the general design and color scheme of the parts. I'm always open for constructive criticism and I'll listen to you guys since I would like for people to use the parts in game. I'm working on a logo and will probably stick with the Sundog name, though I don't know if I'll call it Labs, Mechanics, Aeronautics or something along those lines. If anyone out there has experience with logo design and would like to help me with logo design, just shoot me a PM. I have some ideas in mind but have no tablet and my photoshop skills are a little rusty for that sort of work.

Keep in mind that the models and textures aren't finalized, I'll be adding small parts to give the SRBs a bit of life and altering the textures with accent bits. Let me know what you think of the general design of the pack so far, or comment on individual parts. Do you like the cones, or would you rather have flat tops? Do you think the orange skirts work, or should I leave the skirts to be only grey or white? What about the grey bits below the dark bands?

Thanks in advance, and hopefully I can sort out exporting these things to unity and get them in game. Going to work on some small bits and bobs tonight, possibly will have a command pod to look at tomorrow night.

Peace

Edited September 19, 2012 by wildkittyv1

[MaverickSawyer]

That fourth SRB's nozzle reminds me of the nozzle from the Titan 3 and 4 family... could you make an SRB with that style nozzle, but with a longer body?

[wildkittyv1]

That fourth SRB's nozzle reminds me of the nozzle from the Titan 3 and 4 family... could you make an SRB with that style nozzle, but with a longer body?

I am trying to keep the SRBs visually distinct, so I'll likely rework the textures on one of the two medium-sized ones so it's more distinguishable from the other, though they do have different colored nozzle skirts. Would you mind telling me what you would use a larger SRB for and how often? Since we're going to have NERVA-esque engines (or at least one), I don't think we'll need to construct massive launch vehicles like how people have been assuming and trying to prepare.

As it is now, that SRB is about 9m in length total (nozzle included), which is approximately the same length as 3 of the large 2m tanks stacked together (the SRB is 1.5m diameter, so it shouldn't be used with 1m tanks on the same stage). I think most people stop stacking them at around that point, but I was considering making a 2m diameter SRB with a longer length, probably 10m without the nozzle, so about 11m total length.

I'm not trying to shoot the idea down, but there is a problem that has to be dealt with right now which is that there is no working cost system in the game. When I was converting the NovaPunch stuff to .16 values, I came across the same hurdle. There is no way to arbitrarily make parts cost more because they are better or more powerful because there's no budget for the player. There's nothing stopping anyone from just strapping the most powerful SRBs onto the side of their ship and just go at it, because there is no real penality for dumping extra fuel or using stuff more powerful than necessary. This is my biggest hangup with making larger and more powerful/efficient parts. So again, I may add one more larger size SRB, but I'm hesitant because it would be really powerful and I wouldn't want people strapping it to the sides of craft that don't necessarily need it.

On a side note, I'm all ears for stuff that people would like to see in a parts pack. If you have any other ideas or comments, feel free to let me know. I'm probably going to rework one of the large, single nozzle engines into a nuclear one, and will likely create a 2m one as well to go along with what I have so far.

[wildkittyv1]

Hey guys, sorry about not updating, but I've had a busy week and was having trouble motivating myself to get more work done and wrestling over a few concepts for the tanks. Good news is that I finally managed to get the tanks into the game and have a good idea of what I need to do for most of the stuff I'll initially be releasing.

I'm going to be playing with the engine designs and working on getting them into the game tonight, might have some progress to show tomorrow. For now, here's a couple pictures of the tanks.

Here's a couple of the tanks stacked on each other, if you use multiples it is meant for the small ones to go on top of the large of the same size to have the painting scheme fit. This is a 1x2m tanks sitting on two, 1x4m tanks.

Here are the 2m tanks sitting on top of each other. The small tank is 2x4 and the large is 2x8.

And here's one of all of them with the 1-2m adapter from the stock stuff. The top is a 1x6 stack total, which is equal to 4 of the large, 1m stock tanks. The bottom is a 2x12m stack, which would be equal to 4 of the large 2m tanks.

Now that I've gotten some parts into the game and know a bit more about the different necessary meshes for blender, I can do some finishing touches on the engines and SRBs and start assigning them values and balancing them. If you have any requests or ideas for parts you'd like to see, feel free to post em here. I have some ideas myself, but I'll keep those tucked away for a surprise. Let me know how you feel about the color scheme of the tanks as well. I've still to add details and fix up the textures to the tanks, but they work as a rough estimate of what I'm going for. I have other designs in mind if I do smaller versions of the tanks, but I don't want to crowd the parts menu so I'm working out what exactly I want to do.

Cheers!

[wildkittyv1]

Alright, going to update with some in-game screen shots of the stuff I've gotten into the game so far. Thanks to DYJ, Hyratel and some others in the KSP IRC channel for helping me with getting these in game. I'll be posting my own critiques below each picture and would appreciate any constructive criticism you may have, suggestions for parts you'd like to see, or anything of that nature. I've got a bunch of ideas to work on and implement, but I just wanted to get the process of getting some parts in the game, so I'm throwing these up here. A quick note: I have yet to put the parts through unity, so the UV Mapping seams are very apparent on the engines - that will hopefully be solved once I go through that step.

Here's a shot of my tanks stacked up on each other and a stack of the stock stuff right beside it. The small and large variants of my tanks when stacked equals 4 of the large variations of the stock tanks. I feel this is a solid amount. I generally am happy with the design, I want it to look somewhat like how stages are painted in real life to differentiate them, but I will likely be doing some minor tweaking on them and also tweaking the "lips" at the top of each tank.

The SRB needs a big model and texture overhaul. The nozzle needs to shrink, the individual sections need to be less "bold" or distinguished, and I'll probably be redoing the textures. I am torn on whether or not to keep the caps, as I feel nothing ever really needs to be stacked on top of SRBs, but I have heard people like to put additional SAS modules on top of theirs. Please give any input.

Three of my engines on my small tanks next to the comparative stock engines on the large stock tanks. Nothing much to say here.

My large 1m engine is first next to the most powerful of the stock 1m engines. I may widen the nozzle so it looks more like the stock one, but I'm not sure. I was guessing as I did the models. I will probably increase the thickness of the fuel line so it's similar in size to the stock one.

The second photo is a twin-nozzle engine next to the smaller of the 1m stock engines. I will likely redo the bracing around the engine as it looks a bit fragile, and I might play with the nozzle a bit as well, shortening it and making the angle more sheer.

A potential lander engine next to the stock 1m lander engine. I will be fiddling with this one a bit, most likely omitting the protrusion at the top of my engine, or at least shortening it's vertical profile a bit alongside shortening the nozzle and decreasing the size of its mouth so it's more friendly to landing legs. I'm not trying to replace the stock lander engine, but I would like a more powerful variant that will sacrifice some weight and efficiency when dealing with larger payloads. This is what I'm aiming for with these parts - functionally parallel while not trying to fill in gaps that don't exist.

The second engine is a tri-nozzle design that needs some work done on its model still and would likely be an intermediary or potentially more powerful in-atmosphere 1m engine. I was thinking maybe 300 or 320 thrust with appropriate ISP after dropping the 2m tanks and SRBs.

Thanks for reading, and I'll be continuing to work on these. After getting them in game I can see more clearly the work I need to do, but am generally happy with my first go at making parts. All the models and textures are a work in progress and not final by any means, I have a lot of cleaning up to do there but just wanted to try and get these into the game. Cheers, and thanks for any input.

[MaverickSawyer]

Would you mind telling me what you would use a larger SRB for and how often?

Sorry about the delayed response.

I find that a large SRB used as a zero stage REALLY helps kickstart my rockets. Think of how the Titan launch vehicles would start: Fire the SRBs, burn themout, then cut them loose and start the first liquid stage. I am trying to do this, and have been using the NovaPunch SRBs, but sometimes, they are too much for my needs.

As for the frequency of use, I am planning om making a standardized launcher and constructing stuff on-orbit. Just shuttle parts up once an orbit, and build the ship quickly. then, set out for my destination.

[CAPFlyer]

I find that a large SRB used as a zero stage REALLY helps kickstart my rockets. Think of how the Titan launch vehicles would start: Fire the SRBs, burn themout, then cut them loose and start the first liquid stage.

Umm, that's not the Titan you're thinking of. Not sure what one you would be thinking of actually. No US launcher uses this sort of launch procedure. The Titan III's and IV's (the only models which used SRBs) had the first liquid stage ignited from launch. It's a simple reliability issue. You want to make sure those engines are working before you start the SRB's because the last thing you want to have happen is the SRB's to work fine, and then the first stage not ignite.