[1.12.x] Waterfall - a framework for continuous, mesh-driven engine effects (October 9)

[Carni35]

18 hours ago, Nertea said:

This should be fixed in the latest version of FAR: 

 

Awesome ! Just tested it and the physical bug is fixed

Thank you very much for your work and your time, KSP is even more enjoyable now ^^

 

[Xilis]

Hay Nertea nice work on this!

I noticed when I put multiple restock skippers or mainsails together i get a white dot grid pattern when I swing the view parallel to the exhaust plume.

from the side its not visible and with only one its there but only barley visible on a black background. dose anyone else get this?

[Nertea]

14 minutes ago, Xilis said:

Hay Nertea nice work on this!

I noticed when I put multiple restock skippers or mainsails together i get a white dot grid pattern when I swing the view parallel to the exhaust plume.

from the side its not visible and with only one its there but only barley visible on a black background. dose anyone else get this?

What version of KSP/Waterfall are you using? 

[Idleness]

19 minutes ago, Nertea said:

What version of KSP/Waterfall are you using? 

Not the same poster, but I also saw this behaviour with 1.10.1 and started using waterfall at version .24 till now. It was not seemingly engine specific either; you can see it on others too (eg. Swivel). I have RealPlume installed as well and wasn't sure if it was some interaction there. Was investigating other stuff so did not get a chance to try without RealPlume yet. I'll make a point of doing that. 

[Nertea]

10 minutes ago, Idleness said:

Not the same poster, but I also saw this behaviour with 1.10.1 and started using waterfall at version .24 till now. It was not seemingly engine specific either; you can see it on others too (eg. Swivel). I have RealPlume installed as well and wasn't sure if it was some interaction there. Was investigating other stuff so did not get a chance to try without RealPlume yet. I'll make a point of doing that. 

Yeah, see I can't reproduce it (I could in 1.8.1/1.9.1), and all my previous reports of the pattern have been using 1.8.1. If you're seeing that in 10.1 then that throws that theory out the window :(.

I have to assume at this point it is some kind of mod interaction (scatterer? some TUFX/KS3P setting? odd because I usually test with an install that has both of these) or related to the graphics API you're using. So, please let me know those things. 

[Idleness]

27 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Yeah, see I can't reproduce it (I could in 1.8.1/1.9.1), and all my previous reports of the pattern have been using 1.8.1. If you're seeing that in 10.1 then that throws that theory out the window :(.

I have to assume at this point it is some kind of mod interaction (scatterer? some TUFX/KS3P setting? odd because I usually test with an install that has both of these) or related to the graphics API you're using. So, please let me know those things. 

I have the WIP 0.0632 version of Scatterer. I've never actively changed the graphics api that KSP uses, so whatever is the default for Windows/Steam. I have read about folks trying dx11 or OpenGL but unless another visual mod can change this, I have always used the default. 

I'm thinking I should try a new game instance with just some of your parts mods + Waterfall with restock configs so to remove variables. 

[Al2Me6]

43 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Yeah, see I can't reproduce it (I could in 1.8.1/1.9.1), and all my previous reports of the pattern have been using 1.8.1. If you're seeing that in 10.1 then that throws that theory out the window :(.

I have to assume at this point it is some kind of mod interaction (scatterer? some TUFX/KS3P setting? odd because I usually test with an install that has both of these) or related to the graphics API you're using. So, please let me know those things. 

Here's another data point:

Spoiler

This is KSP 1.9.1, dx11, newest versions of Waterfall, Scatterer, and TUFX. The TUFX profile is here: https://github.com/al2me6/tufx-neutralnext. It only shows up under certain lighting conditions for me.

And another glitch that I've came across (specifically with the waterfall-kerolox-upper-1 template):

Edit: And another image of the previously reported "faint cone" (it's especially obvious with a large number of engines):

Edited November 26, 2020 by Al2Me6

[Nertea]

38 minutes ago, Al2Me6 said:

Edit: And another image of the previously reported "faint cone" (it's especially obvious with a large number of engines):

 

I think we have traced the faint cone to Scatterer, have identified a likely fix for next release. 

[Xilis]

I'm using KSP 1.10.1

waterfall 0.2.4

I am using Scatter with AVP

sounds like you've already resolved it though

thanks for all you do! it makes this game sooo much better.

[Nertea]

9 minutes ago, Xilis said:

I'm using KSP 1.10.1

waterfall 0.2.4

I am using Scatter with AVP

sounds like you've already resolved it though

thanks for all you do! it makes this game sooo much better.

Nah we've only got the faint cone, not the dots pattern. 

Though I guess it could be the same bug? Check back after the next Waterfall release I guess!

[Idleness]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:59 PM, Nertea said:

Nah we've only got the faint cone, not the dots pattern. 

Though I guess it could be the same bug? Check back after the next Waterfall release I guess!

Dots pattern went away for me when I turned off Dithering within Scatterer.  You can flip the setting back and forth and see the difference.  Unless folks are seeing another set of dot-patterning, Dithering is quite possibly the key.

[Lathari]

21 hours ago, Idleness said:

Dots pattern went away for me when I turned off Dithering within Scatterer.  You can flip the setting back and forth and see the difference.  Unless folks are seeing another set of dot-patterning, Dithering is quite possibly the key.

Yes, it very much looks like there's no random element to dithering so you get the dot pattern.

[Nertea]

On 11/27/2020 at 11:57 AM, Idleness said:

Dots pattern went away for me when I turned off Dithering within Scatterer.  You can flip the setting back and forth and see the difference.  Unless folks are seeing another set of dot-patterning, Dithering is quite possibly the key.

It's interesting you found that, but Dithering on/off doesn't do anything for me. Then again, I don't see it in the current install, so :P. 

[Nertea]

Waterfall 0.2.7

• Added IgnoreProjector tag on all shaders; should resolve some interactions with Scatterer

Note: this deletes a file, so really make sure to delete instead of merge folders.

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Nertea

[WarriorSabe]

4 hours ago, Nertea said:

Waterfall 0.2.7

• Added IgnoreProjector tag on all shaders; should resolve some interactions with Scatterer

Note: this deletes a file, so really make sure to delete instead of merge folders.

 

Ooh, maybe I can use this again. I had to uninstall it because the white dots were so bad that it looked like I had mach cones all over my rocket, even sticking out the sides of fairings in the one case of the surface base segment I was shipping.

[Idleness]

3 hours ago, WarriorSabe said:

Ooh, maybe I can use this again. I had to uninstall it because the white dots were so bad that it looked like I had mach cones all over my rocket, even sticking out the sides of fairings in the one case of the surface base segment I was shipping.

A few posts up I noted that I stopped seeing dots after toggling off Dithering in Scatterer.  Curious if you also did the same but still saw the dot pattern?

[Nertea]

8 hours ago, WarriorSabe said:

Ooh, maybe I can use this again. I had to uninstall it because the white dots were so bad that it looked like I had mach cones all over my rocket, even sticking out the sides of fairings in the one case of the surface base segment I was shipping.

I mean, yay, but what works a lot better than uninstalling it is working with me to try to find the cause so I can resolve it. :|

 

[WarriorSabe]

15 hours ago, Idleness said:

A few posts up I noted that I stopped seeing dots after toggling off Dithering in Scatterer.  Curious if you also did the same but still saw the dot pattern?

I wasn't aware that was a thing at the time

 

10 hours ago, Nertea said:

I mean, yay, but what works a lot better than uninstalling it is working with me to try to find the cause so I can resolve it. :|

You were already getting reports of it, and I had a lot of other mods installed that wouldn't make my career a clean test environment. It was easier for me just to switch to realplume until it was fixed; I have my own development work I'm doing when not in my career.

[Idleness]

Before I do some more in-depth investigation, has anyone seen the effect see in this album?  Waterfall cone effect

It seems as though, in some cases, at some angles, you can see clearly defined edges of the effects that are being rendered for the engine emission.  Visual mods I'm using scatterer, EVE, the Spectra configs, distant object enhance, engine lighting, TUFX, texture replacer, planetshine, and smokescreen.  DX11.  I removed Real Plume previous to noticing this because, despite it was supposed to have been patched to let Waterfall configured engines use Waterfall, I'm not sure it was.  Could have been my install.

Anyhow, like I said, I wanted to see if anyone else noticed this before I dig into what/why?

[Nertea]

40 minutes ago, Idleness said:

Before I do some more in-depth investigation, has anyone seen the effect see in this album?  Waterfall cone effect

It seems as though, in some cases, at some angles, you can see clearly defined edges of the effects that are being rendered for the engine emission.  Visual mods I'm using scatterer, EVE, the Spectra configs, distant object enhance, engine lighting, TUFX, texture replacer, planetshine, and smokescreen.  DX11.  I removed Real Plume previous to noticing this because, despite it was supposed to have been patched to let Waterfall configured engines use Waterfall, I'm not sure it was.  Could have been my install.

Anyhow, like I said, I wanted to see if anyone else noticed this before I dig into what/why?

First, are you using the latest update (0.2.7)? And did you delete and reinstall, instead of merging? (check in your Waterfall/Shaders folder, there should only be 3 files there, like this: https://github.com/post-kerbin-mining-corporation/Waterfall/tree/master/GameData/Waterfall/Shaders). If you have more than 3 files, delete the others and check again. 

If that's all good I have some new thing to track down. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Nertea

[Idleness]

11 minutes ago, Nertea said:

First, are you using the latest update (0.2.7)? And did you delete and reinstall, instead of merging? (check in your Waterfall/Shaders folder, there should only be 3 files there, like this: https://github.com/post-kerbin-mining-corporation/Waterfall/tree/master/GameData/Waterfall/Shaders). If you have more than 3 files, delete the others and check again. 

Yes, using 0.2.7 and only have the 3 OS shader files.  I think, strangely enough, I've already figured out the problem.  Seems like I need to post about a problem only to figure it out shortly thereafter and feel sheepish... More accidentally; because I was trying to figure out why it was inconsistent.  Didn't always do it - especially when I looked hard, like bringing car to the mechanic.  tl;dr is that it was a problem between Watefall and TUFX.  

Longer explanation is that in the map view/tracking station I was using the default TUFX HDR profile.  If I looked at map view anytime after launching a rocket, when I switched back the cone appears.  I switched out the HDR profile (only because I had read several posts aboput TUFX before installing and it seemed to suggest HDR either didn't work at all, or didn't work well).  Once I used a different profile that didn't seem to utilize HDR I no longer saw that cone when switching back and forth.  As to why that would have been the problem or trigger, I'm not certain.

[Nertea]

So here's an application that's not engine effects that this mod works pretty well for:

[Nertea]

Small updates:

Waterfall 0.2.8

•  Added better HDR handling to shaders, should result in less TUFX breakage in HDR mode
•  Added new Billboard (Additive Directional) shader
•  Added waterfall-spotlight-1 and waterfall-floodlight-1 templates
•  Added new Light controller (link effects to a light intensity)
•  Added two new flare textures to use

WaterfallRestock 0.1.4

• Added lights!

 

[Starseeker]

Oooo, those light effects look really good! Do they also link to atmospheric density, so you don't have light reflecting off of nonexistent atmosphere in space?

[Nertea]

6 minutes ago, Starseeker said:

Oooo, those light effects look really good! Do they also link to atmospheric density, so you don't have light reflecting off of nonexistent atmosphere in space?

yep. They're just the usual waterfall effects so can be fully controlled by any controller.