Still flat spinning.

[Cloakedwand72]

What’s the point with KSP again? I still have trouble creating shuttle like craft they all still keep flat spinning once they bleed off speed right after reentry. And yes I have big rear rudder & yes I still need a non SSTO style space plane for a mid 2000’s part of career mode play throughs. And no I don’t like using rockets for space station cargo or sending fuel tanks. Any tips on how to prevent this stuff?  Also what’s the point in KSP if I can’t make a space plane? Also I hope aerodynamics improve in KSP 2.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Cloakedwand72 said:

What’s the point with KSP again? I still have trouble creating shuttle like craft they all still keep flat spinning once they bleed off speed right after reentry. And yes I have big rear rudder & yes I still need a non SSTO style space plane for a mid 2000’s part of career mode play throughs. And no I don’t like using rockets for space station cargo or sending fuel tanks. Any tips on how to prevent this stuff?  Also what’s the point in KSP if I can’t make a space plane? Also I hope aerodynamics improve in KSP 2.

First off, you can most certainly build spaceplanes in KSP. I've built hundreds of all sizes and descriptions.

Second, improved aerodynamics will most likely make things a bit harder rather than easier. FAR is greatly improved over KSP, and it adds a bunch of stuff you just don't need to deal with in stock aero, like more realistic stalls for example. (Overall it's not harder IMO though, just different, but that's a whole another story.)

Third, pictures or a craft file please, without them the best you'll get is general advice: pointy things front, draggy things back, CoM in front of CoL, try not to put all the heavy stuff in the rear, pump any remaining fuel you have to the front tanks.

And fourth, if you're trying to model your craft on the STS, that's hard. It can be done, but there are design patterns that are much easier to get to work in KSP. If you're building around the big Mk 3 cargo bay, make it look like a Hercules instead of the Space Shuttle: I-shaped wing in the middle, engines in nacelles on pylons on the wing, nice big tail, fuel tanks distributed around the CoM.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Guest

[Spricigo]

6 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

if you're trying to model your craft on the STS, that's hard.

Yep. Quite easy to put together the parts to make a craft that looks like but it then fly like a hippopotamus. 

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Spricigo said:

Yep. Quite easy to put together the parts to make a craft that looks like but it then fly like a hippopotamus. 

Like a drunk hippopotamus on a very large board of plywood I would say. 

There's a reason the STS challenge is one of the longest-running ones here. Recreating the Space Shuttle, launch system and all, that more or less looks like the real thing as well as performs like the real thing is really hard; the orbiter itself isn't one of the hardest parts but it's hard enough. 

One of the first difficulties you'll encounter when designing spaceplanes larger than pretty small Mk1 or Mk2 ones is that you start piling up a lot of heavy engines towards the rear. The simplest solution to that is to put the engines on the wings rather than the tail. 

[Snark]

12 hours ago, Cloakedwand72 said:

What’s the point with KSP again? I still have trouble creating shuttle like craft they all still keep flat spinning once they bleed off speed right after reentry. And yes I have big rear rudder & yes I still need a non SSTO style space plane for a mid 2000’s part of career mode play throughs. And no I don’t like using rockets for space station cargo or sending fuel tanks. Any tips on how to prevent this stuff?  Also what’s the point in KSP if I can’t make a space plane?

You can totally make a spaceplane.  Lots of people do.  It's just that it's trickier than making a rocket, and there are more factors to bear in mind.

As to why your craft in particular is running into problems-- e.g. why your plane is spinning and other folks' don't-- then we really need to see a picture of the plane to be able to offer advice.  Ideally, a picture in the SPH, with the CoM displayed, preferably with the fuel tanks emptied (i.e. so that it mimics the situation when it's re-entering).

The most common reason for people having spaceplanes that are unstable on reentry is when they're rear-heavy (i.e. their CoM is close to the back of the plane).  That's an easy situation to get into, since a lot of folks put the engines in the back, and engines tend to be fairly heavy.

There are other potential gotchas, too-- for example, if your vertical stabilizer (a.k.a. "rear rudder") is located too high above the centerline of the ship, and/or if you've forgotten to disable roll authority on it (since it's on by default).  But "CoM near the rear" tends to be the biggest issue for most folks.

Could you post a picture of your plane?

[swjr-swis]

13 hours ago, Cloakedwand72 said:

Any tips on how to prevent this stuff?  Also what’s the point in KSP if I can’t make a space plane?

I take from the above that the many tips given on your previous thread on this matter were either not to your liking or inapplicable to your needs, and that the working no-flatspin variant I made of your shuttle also doesn't meet your requirements. Much of what was said and shown in that thread is generally applicable to any shuttle-type craft.

Since you are posting again asking for new feedback on basically the same matter, even if it is for a different shuttle, it would help to know what made the previous feedback not fit your design parameters (or your mission objectives). So we can avoid repeating the same advice.