Mun Mission

[Anonymous49]

Alright so my mun 1 mission.

So this is what I needed to launch

Obviously it's like apollo but different

Detach the lander from the orbiter in mun orbit

Land the lander in Northwest crater

At first I thought of just transmitting data from the surface and keep it there but I need to change.

They don't give 100%. So a crewed orbiter could obviously take the data back home

I would dock the lander with the orbiter

Then take all the data from the lander to the orbiter

Ditch the lander

Then land again in the same biome

Just wanna ask, can a 300s burn with a TWR of 1.08 on the mun (about 150m/s dV) possible for all this? Or do I need to add more? ANy suggestions?

Go back home with the orbiter

Ditch the service module

Reentry

Landing in Kerbin

Then what's the problem?

Rocket problems obviously.

Which rocket is best suited? This? It's the newest creation, it's also very efficient. Or this, the original idea, launches slightly more payload

This is how is it for now, any other questions would be commented, thanks guys many is nice in this forum for me :).

a little update here: it's 6.191 tonnes for the whole spacecraft

[Anonymous49]

wait there's 614m/s in the lander

[The Aziz]

You need like 600m/s from low orbit to surface. If you want to return to orbit, another 600. Aaand if you want to land back (not sure what for, I'd just ditch the lander and let it crash) another 600. So you need 1800m/s of Dv in your lander only.

That said, if it's unmanned lander, it doesn't need to be big, size 0 parts can work there, few Oscar-B tanks and Spark engine for enough twr should do the trick.

[Anonymous49]

54 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

You need like 600m/s from low orbit to surface. If you want to return to orbit, another 600. Aaand if you want to land back (not sure what for, I'd just ditch the lander and let it crash) another 600. So you need 1800m/s of Dv in your lander only.

That said, if it's unmanned lander, it doesn't need to be big, size 0 parts can work there, few Oscar-B tanks and Spark engine for enough twr should do the trick.

i used an ant engine btw, check the craft files

the service module have 2260m/s of delta v, is that enough to do the mun orbital insertion? And crossfeeding a bit of fuel should be good

now i used 2 ant engines and have 1745m/s of delta v after some upgrades

[The Aziz]

Plenty, typical LKO->Mun orbit->back shouldn't take more than 1500, probably even less (those are guesstimates, I always overengineer my CSM a bit and haven't calculated how much exactly I need in a while) so you could spend a bit of your fuel reserves for that lander maybe.

[Anonymous49]

2 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Plenty, typical LKO->Mun orbit->back shouldn't take more than 1500, probably even less (those are guesstimates, I always overengineer my CSM a bit and haven't calculated how much exactly I need in a while) so you could spend a bit of your fuel reserves for that lander maybe.

thanks , but my redesign was too heavy to be launched from both explorer 1 or any kinds of cheetah 1 (cheetah 1 162). But I only need to do a injection burn with the rocket, the rest uses the CSM

IT'S 7.444 TONNES

sorry for caps

not lying check KerbalX - Mun 1 satellite

[Anonymous49]

btw i cannot store 4 goo units in the pod, any tricks to do it?

or anything that can?

is the ESU possible for this?

[Anonymous49]

i mean all science materials is in the lander

1. in space high above the mun

2. in space low above the mun

3. above the mun, close to the surface (flying low)

4. landed on the mun

[paul_c]

There is no "flying low" situation on the Mun (AFAIK). Its space high, space low, surface/landed.

The science storage box https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Experiment_Storage_Unit can store results: 1 per biome/situation so a strategy can be, the lander has (for example) science junior and goo; readings are taken then the results transferred, then the SJ/Goo detached and thus the vehicle is lighter so whatever remaining fuel gives more performance.

You can't take 2 SJ/Goo readings in the same biome/situation and store them in the same Experiment Storage Unit.

You can't take a SJ/Goo reading, store it then re-use that SJ/Goo module without a scientist resetting it - either by EVA (within 1.5m of...) or by being attached to a working Science Lab.

Returning results to Kerbin earns much more science than transmitting SJ/Goo readings; also gathering 2nd/3rd/4th readings adds a bit more too, but its quite marginal. By the 4th reading, you have earned all the available science.

3 hours ago, Anonymous49 said:

So a crewed orbiter could obviously take the data back home

It doesn't need to be crewed. In fact, you save a lot of weight if you can make the mission uncrewed, but you will need decent comms. This means, either a Communitron 16 & coordinate all operations on the Kerbin-facing side of the Mun; or establish a relay network around the Mun.

There are a number of Mun biomes on the far side of the Mun (it is tidally locked to Kerbin) so you would need it to be crewed or comms relayed to reach them.

It goes without saying, but don't forget: far side =/= dark side.

[Anonymous49]

18 minutes ago, paul_c said:

There is no "flying low" situation on the Mun (AFAIK). Its space high, space low, surface/landed.

The science storage box https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Experiment_Storage_Unit can store results: 1 per biome/situation so a strategy can be, the lander has (for example) science junior and goo; readings are taken then the results transferred, then the SJ/Goo detached and thus the vehicle is lighter so whatever remaining fuel gives more performance.

You can't take 2 SJ/Goo readings in the same biome/situation and store them in the same Experiment Storage Unit.

You can't take a SJ/Goo reading, store it then re-use that SJ/Goo module without a scientist resetting it - either by EVA (within 1.5m of...) or by being attached to a working Science Lab.

Returning results to Kerbin earns much more science than transmitting SJ/Goo readings; also gathering 2nd/3rd/4th readings adds a bit more too, but its quite marginal. By the 4th reading, you have earned all the available science.

It doesn't need to be crewed. In fact, you save a lot of weight if you can make the mission uncrewed, but you will need decent comms. This means, either a Communitron 16 & coordinate all operations on the Kerbin-facing side of the Mun; or establish a relay network around the Mun.

There are a number of Mun biomes on the far side of the Mun (it is tidally locked to Kerbin) so you would need it to be crewed or comms relayed to reach them.

It goes without saying, but don't forget: far side =/= dark side.

i know, but i need some experience

if there is no flying low then in space high in kerbin

i never wanted them to be in the same biome in the first place

i only have limitled amount

landing in northwest crater

Edited February 26, 2021 by Anonymous49
adding more things

[paul_c]

Just do a crewed land-only mission and transmit data then. Leave the SJ off too if you want. Later on in the career you can revisit, do a landing nearby and get the Kerbin back home.

[Anonymous49]

17 minutes ago, paul_c said:

Just do a crewed land-only mission and transmit data then. Leave the SJ off too if you want. Later on in the career you can revisit, do a landing nearby and get the Kerbin back home.

the crew will ORBIT the mun and the lander will LAND. The lander will dock the orbiter and put all the science into the ESU, the scientific items will be dumped and land again so scientists could hopefully go there soon

[paul_c]

Is this your first Mun landing?

The advice was based on it being the first, hopefully successful, one. Then you don't need to replicate the Apollo mission profile, you don't need to worry about leaving an orbiter then taking off from Mun again, rendezvous and docking. Those are extra elements. Also, if the lander isn't crewed, it will need to be in comms range to be controlled. If its crewed then its altogether heavier than a 1-crew mission.

There are many mission profiles for Mun trips - I've done a bunch of variations myself - I've not done a replica of the Apollo missions though. In KSP, there isn't much advantage in using a separate descent and ascent engine; or having 2 fuel tanks etc. But it can be done.

[Anonymous49]

26 minutes ago, paul_c said:

Is this your first Mun landing?

The advice was based on it being the first, hopefully successful, one. Then you don't need to replicate the Apollo mission profile, you don't need to worry about leaving an orbiter then taking off from Mun again, rendezvous and docking. Those are extra elements. Also, if the lander isn't crewed, it will need to be in comms range to be controlled. If its crewed then its altogether heavier than a 1-crew mission.

There are many mission profiles for Mun trips - I've done a bunch of variations myself - I've not done a replica of the Apollo missions though. In KSP, there isn't much advantage in using a separate descent and ascent engine; or having 2 fuel tanks etc. But it can be done.

second, forgot that the first one tipped over and crashed due to landing leg problem?

2 Communotron 16

Level 2 tracking station

158.11Mm

That's enough.

Also the command pod built in one 15.81Mm which is the mun.

Not apollo, just the style, I want the data to come back in full value but wanted to keep it on the surface of the mun. So I used a orbiter to take the science from the lander.

[paul_c]

4 minutes ago, Anonymous49 said:

second, forgot that the first one tipped over and crashed due to landing leg problem?

 

Technically, you don't need landing legs to land on the Mun. It can be done directly onto the engine.....landing legs are a blessing and a curse. In KSP, there was a bug where things on a slight slope would slide downhill. Landing legs now include a logic that if it contacts the surface, it "grips" or breaks off. The grip can tip over a craft if the horizontal speed is too much, or overwhelm its SAS/reaction wheel control. If you land with low/no horizontal speed element, the issue dissolves.

 

4 minutes ago, Anonymous49 said:

2 Communotron 16

Level 2 tracking station

158.11Mm

That's enough.

Also the command pod built in one 15.81Mm which is the mun.

Needs to have direct line of sight of Kerbin (or a relay sat). Obviously, things in orbit around the Mun can be in the shadow for up to ~half their orbit. The landing is easy to plan - just land on the near side of the Mun. A rendezvous/docking is possible, but much more involved, to plan. It would need to be in comms range for the critical elements of the maneouvring, for example orbital corrections to rendezvous, and/or the docking itself.

[Reactordrone]

If your lander isn't returning to Kerbin you can ditch the parachute and heat shield.

[Anonymous49]

4 minutes ago, Reactordrone said:

If your lander isn't returning to Kerbin you can ditch the parachute and heat shield.

that's the command module

[Anonymous49]

this? seems good

a shuttle external fuel tank with 4 (instead of 3 in the shuttle) shuttle engines and 2 expended explorer booster 1 w/ the engine replaced with a skipper for better isp. A cheetah 1-A second stage w/ an adapter.

[paul_c]

Does that weigh about 180t all in??

[Anonymous49]

3 minutes ago, paul_c said:

Does that weigh about 180t all in??

i thought it was in the KER! 205,046kg

Wait i need to eat dinner right now

[paul_c]

Remind me again, what you're landing on the Mun - something that can transmit SJ, Goo, Temp, Pressure? Anything else?

[Anonymous49]

31 minutes ago, paul_c said:

Remind me again, what you're landing on the Mun - something that can transmit SJ, Goo, Temp, Pressure? Anything else?

download the whole spacecraft, what's under the spark engine is it

https://kerbalx.com/Anonymous49/Mun-1-satellite

[paul_c]

Stage 8 seems wrong - it looks like a fairing but I can't be sure. It makes no sense to deploy it half way up. Personally I would put it right at the top and do it manually. Or, before anything enclosed within it, if there's engines/decouplers inside it.

Just now, Anonymous49 said:

download the whole spacecraft, what's under the spark engine is it

https://kerbalx.com/Anonymous49/Mun-1-satellite

 I asked "what is the purpose of the mission?" To gather science from the Mun? To transmit it only, or to return it to Kerbin? Which bits of science?

[Anonymous49]

29 minutes ago, paul_c said:

Stage 8 seems wrong - it looks like a fairing but I can't be sure. It makes no sense to deploy it half way up. Personally I would put it right at the top and do it manually. Or, before anything enclosed within it, if there's engines/decouplers inside it.

 I asked "what is the purpose of the mission?" To gather science from the Mun? To transmit it only, or to return it to Kerbin? Which bits of science?

i would deploy it over 70km to save  weight

science and experience, getting ready for the first manned mun mission, the Mun 4 Mission

[paul_c]

ETA I can't download craft from KerbalX - it needs a mod. I can look at the pictures, that's about it though. There's some obvious weight saving possible on the "lander" thing - buy hey, its your craft and your mission, if you want to put that on the Mun...........also the rocket has 9000dV, more than enough. These both together explain why its coming in at 200 tons.

TWR on the lander seems a little low - personally I like to have about 10 for Mun (there's a long de-orbit burn otherwise), then control the engine for 3-5TWR during the landing. Yes in theory, anything 1.0000000001 or above can do it but in practice.....for a beginner....I'd recommend more.

You could do a redesign (if you alter the lander, then the rest of it needs to be tweaked/redesigned too.....) or you could just try fly it and see how it goes?

As a comparison, this is my current Mun lander:

About 3800dV in vacuum, 2.8t. Once its slowed down and landing on the Mun, TWR is about 9.