KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[Shania_L]

Ok, thanks for that info, I have a followup on the CPU choices, you mentioned there the Intel I5 4690K I looked that up and I cannot see how you have deemed the performance of that chip in comparison to others.

[URL="http://www.ebuyer.com/645547-intel-core-i5-4690k-3-5ghz-socket-1150-6mb-l3-cache-retail-boxed-bx80646i54690k"]I5 4690K,[/URL] (Haswell) 4 cores 3.5GHz clock and 6mb cache £180

[URL="http://www.ebuyer.com/503899-amd-fx-6350-3-9ghz-socket-am3-8mb-l3-cache-retail-boxed-processor-fd6350frhkbox"]AMD FX-6350,[/URL] 6 cores 3.9GHz clock and 8mb cache, £98

... these are the main advertised specifications so I'm guessing (possibly wrongly) they are the indicators of performance.

Can you explain to me why the AMD has bigger numbers, is 2/3 (nearer 1/2 actually) the price and yet you rate it lower than the Intel?

[Elthy]

The clockrate is only important when comparing CPUs from the same generation and brand, e.g. only Haswell vs. Haswell. Its way more important how much a CPU gets done during a cycle, and Intel is way, way better in this than AMD. Additional to that you can realy count the 6 cores of the AMD processors as 6 cores on an Intel processor. All recent AMD CPUs use "modules", which hold some stuff twice and only one instance of other units. The FX 6XXX has 3 Modules, which results in 6 core performance for some tasks and 3 core performace for other tasks.

So even with lower clockspeed the i5 4440 would outperform the FX 6350 in every aspect, but is also more expensive.

[Slam_Jones]

[quote name='Shania_L']Ok, thanks for that info, I have a followup on the CPU choices, you mentioned there the Intel I5 4690K I looked that up and I cannot see how you have deemed the performance of that chip in comparison to others.

[URL="http://www.ebuyer.com/645547-intel-core-i5-4690k-3-5ghz-socket-1150-6mb-l3-cache-retail-boxed-bx80646i54690k"]I5 4690K,[/URL] (Haswell) 4 cores 3.5GHz clock and 6mb cache £180

[URL="http://www.ebuyer.com/503899-amd-fx-6350-3-9ghz-socket-am3-8mb-l3-cache-retail-boxed-processor-fd6350frhkbox"]AMD FX-6350,[/URL] 6 cores 3.9GHz clock and 8mb cache, £98

... these are the main advertised specifications so I'm guessing (possibly wrongly) they are the indicators of performance.

Can you explain to me why the AMD has bigger numbers, is 2/3 (nearer 1/2 actually) the price and yet you rate it lower than the Intel?[/QUOTE]


From my own research, the i5 should be faster and generally consume less power than the AMD.

Personally, I run AMD and have never had an issue. However, if you play KSP mainly, you really should go for Intel, as it far exceeds AMDs single-core capabilities.

[Shania_L]

That just makes no sense to me at all!!

Everything I have looked at agrees with what you say, it seems the performance increase is in hidden details that dont get displayed making it practically impossible to see why the I5 is faster!

Is there any benefit to having the AMD CPU with the AMD (ATi/Radeon) graphics? or will my HD 7870 play nicely with an Intel chip?

I am a total fish out of water when it comes to Intel, I have been with AMD since my first Athlon 15+ years ago.

Changing chipset would require a replaced motherboard, so what do I look for with them? or is that all in hidden stats too?

[cantab]

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_cycle[/url]

The only real way to know performance of different CPUs is to test them, ie benchmarking.

No reason to think an AMD graphics card will work better with an AMD processor.

[Slam_Jones]

A PC with an AMD CPU and an nVidia (Intel) GPU will work perfectly fine, and vice versa. So yes, your 7870 will work just fine with an Intel CPU/motherboard.

[Elthy]

[QUOTE]Changing chipset would require a replaced motherboard, so what do I look for with them?[/QUOTE]
Best strategy is to realise what things you need, write it down and choose the cheapest board that has those features. The most important choice is the selection of the chipset, for Haswell thee are two popular choices: B85 and Z97. You only need Z97 if you are overclocking, but for that i think you dont know enough about CPUs.

[Harry Rhodan]

[quote name='Shania_L']Everything I have looked at agrees with what you say, it seems the performance increase is in hidden details that dont get displayed making it practically impossible to see why the I5 is faster![/QUOTE]

It has always been that way. That's why graphics card manufacturers usually have at least one entry level card with more but slower RAM because there are a lot of people who only look at the amount of memory and deduce that this version must be twice as fast.

[Camacha]

[quote name='Shania_L']Changing chipset would require a replaced motherboard, so what do I look for with them? or is that all in hidden stats too?[/QUOTE]

Computer performance has never been a matter of comparing statistics (some rarer cases excepted), so I do not really understand why, after 15 years, you would think it is. Besides, they are not hidden at all. There are many wonderful benchmarks sites out there that do all the ground work for you. You just need to look them up and compare the things that can be compared. Just make sure you pick sites that actually measure things - there are a couple of them out there that predict performance based on specifications. By now you know why that does not fly.

The guys here explained it quite nicely, actually :)

[scribbleheli]

Cpubenchmark.com is my go to
Users submit their bench mark scores. And you can compare your choice vs those recommended. They have a nice performance vs cost value graph I think.

[Red Iron Crown]

^^ The website name appears to be incorrect.

[cantab]

Likewise, it's my usual starting point for three reasons. It's easy to search. It's comprehensive, covering virtually every CPU (and GPUs on its sister site). And its scoring is linear, so a 5000 is twice the performance of a 2500.

It is just a starting point though, and is a synthetic benchmark, so it's worth also finding some real-world tests.

EDIT: And oh yeah, it should be [url]https://www.cpubenchmark.net/[/url]

[Camacha]

[quote name='cantab']It is just a starting point though, and is a synthetic benchmark, so it's worth also finding some real-world tests.[/QUOTE]

I wanted to point out this shortcoming of that website. Real world tests are, when appropriate, always superior to any synthetic test. Partly because synthetic tests do not cover real world scenarios all that well, and partly because people and companies have been known to manipulate artificial benchmark results, skewing the picture painted.

Getting real world, actually measured and situation appropriate benchmark results, preferably over a larger sample group (ie. multiple reviewer or review sites) are superior to anything else. If that fails and is not available, you slowly descent into less ideal options. The long story short is that no number of score can tell you in any detail about the suitability of certain hardware for a specific purpose or set of purposes. A quick example would be a 8 core processor at a lower clock speed and a short pipeline versus a 4 core processor at a much higher clock speed with a long pipeline, both yielding the same final score. I can absolutely guarantee that one chip will vastly outperform the other in some situations, and vice versa. Real world performance is not linear, so having a number that suggests it is is, well, somewhat dangerous.

[scribbleheli]

My bad
It was like...7am :P


And as far as I know. Then benchmark site is real world test submitted by users and enthusiast. Obviously not and end all be all "this is better then that" type sight.
When looking at one processor vs another and they are in the same realm, one can expect similar performance.

Such as my i7 920's, 4991 score vs the 6700k 11,000
I should see quite a boost but at great cost.
YMMV Edited November 25, 2015 by scribbleheli

[manaiaK]

That benchmarking site was ... interesting. To get something twice the performance of my current CPU (my minimum standard for upgrading: twice as good) it seems I have to spend about $2200. [SIZE=1](Plus a much more expensive motherboard...)[/SIZE] That's about four times what I spent ... four years ago.

If Moore's Law still held, after four years I should be able to get four times the performance at the same price. It seems Moore's Law died half a decade ago. From now on, it's not upgrading any more; it's merely replacing things when they break. Sad.

[cantab]

When it comes to CPUs performance gains have indeed slowed down in recent years. Moore's Law as originally formulated referred to transistor density and improvements there have slowed a little, but the bigger factor is difficulty translating that process shrinking into actual performance improvements in an application where "moar cores" isn't very helpful. I'd speculate that the lack of competition at the high end is a factor too - Intel could easily produce somewhat better chips at much better prices, but they don't need to.

(For one example, the Broadwell desktop chips proved the benefits of a large amount of eDRAM acting as an L4 cache for the CPU, but Intel decided not to include that in any of their succeeding Skylake chips.)

In other components and devices things are better. GPUs, which lend themselves to massively parallel designs and have strong competition between nVidia and AMD, advance apace. Storage is doing pretty well too I think for both speed and capacity.

[Shania_L]

Ok, I think I have just about burned my eyes out with so many different CPU numbers ... but I rekon Im getting a better idea of where I am.

Because I am not going to be running particularly multi-core supporting games, I'm looking at Intels primarily, but I'm sticking to a similar price as the [URL="http://www.ebuyer.com/503899-amd-fx-6350-3-9ghz-socket-am3-8mb-l3-cache-retail-boxed-processor-fd6350frhkbox"]AMD FX-6350[/URL], so around £100.

This brings me to the I3 range, I know your recommendation was an I5, but I'll get to that :). The ones I am considering are the [URL="http://www.ebuyer.com/706948-intel-core-i3-4170-3-70ghz-socket-1150-3mb-l3-cache-retail-boxed-processor-bx80646i34170"]I3-4170 (£91)[/URL] the [URL="http://www.ebuyer.com/629962-intel-core-i3-4360-3-7ghz-socket-1150-4mb-l3-cache-retail-boxed-bx80646i34360"]I3-4360 (£118)[/URL] and the I3-6300 (£116 but this one doesnt seem to be reliably available).

As for an I5, I can only realistically look at one of those if retaining my Radeon 7870 is not an issue, the [URL="http://www.ebuyer.com/629960-intel-core-i5-4690-3-50ghz-socket-1150-6mb-l3-cache-retail-boxed-bx80646i54690"]I5-4690 (£174)[/URL] is the one you recommended .. the K variant is simply unlocked for overclocking yes? if not then it is an extra £6. I will not be overclocking.

With my current CPU being AM3 chipset, any upgrade Intel or AMD is going to require a motherboard upgrade also, AM3+/1150/1151 will cost about the same the only difference will be I think the 1151(Skylake, for the I3-6300) will require new DDR4 RAM? (an extra £40) I currently have 4x 2GB DDR3 1333MHz sticks.

So! finally opinions on this choice?
The I5-4690 (£174)
[URL="http://www.ebuyer.com/643025-asus-b85-pro-gamer-socket-1150-vga-dvi-hdmi-8-channel-audio-atx-b85-pro-gamer"]Asus B85 1150[/URL] Motherboard (£84)
[URL="http://www.ebuyer.com/584148-coolermaster-gm-series-550w-semi-modular-80-bronze-power-supply-rs550-amaab1-uk"]CoolerMaster 550W[/URL] PSU (£57) - The actual reason for upgrade ... the grinding of my current 500W CoolerMaster is getting annoying .. but it has lasted nearly 7 years.

This would mean I keep the Radeon 7870, and the 4x2GB DDR3 RAM as well as HDDs and all the external stuff.

[Camacha]

Also remember that especially the past 4-5 years, developments have been slated towards efficiency, rather than performance. There are performance gains to be found, but the major improvement lies in the performance per watt. Most performance oriented people will not care that much, though if the difference becomes large enough, it almost pays for itself in saved energy. Also, in portable systems, efficiency is a huge issue.

[RazorWolf19]

Hey there! This is my first time in the Space Lounge Forum; I need your help, guys.

Black Friday's coming up and tech prices are dropping. I was going to hold out until holiday deals came around, but I think this is as good a time as any to begin purchasing the components I will need for my rig. (As a side note: this is my first build so any tips / tricks / general know how is appreciated!)

As of right now, I have selected a case, CPU, GPU, SSD, HDD, and have a potential PSU open in one of my tabs. The issue is, I don't know how to pick out a motherboard and RAM; what makes one model better than another? Also, how do I figure out the correct PSU for my components (I know the PSU should be using about 50%- 75% of its capacity for greatest efficiency, but how do I find the total wattage of my system in the first place?)? Lastly, I am not too adept at all the numbers after part names (such as socket type), so if someone could tell me if my parts will even WORK together at all, that would be nice. :)

My selected components so far:
-Case: Corsair Carbide Series 200R Compact ATX Case ($83.61CDN)
[URL="http://www.amazon.ca/Corsair-Carbide-200R-Compact-CC-9011023-WW/dp/B009GXZ8MM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448498788&sr=8-1&keywords=corsair+200r"]http://www.amazon.ca/Corsair-Carbide-200R-Compact-CC-9011023-WW/dp/B009GXZ8MM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448498788&sr=8-1&keywords=corsair+200r[/URL]

-CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K Devil's Canyon Quad-Core 3.5 GHz LGA 1150 88W ($314.99CDN)
[URL="http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117372&cm_re=core_i5_4690k-_-19-117-372-_-Product"]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117372&cm_re=core_i5_4690k-_-19-117-372-_-Product[/URL]

-GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 960 ($264.99CDN)
[URL="http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487091&ignorebbr=1"]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487091&ignorebbr=1[/URL]

-SSD: SAMSUNG 850 EVO 2.5" 250GB SATA III ($99.99CDN X2)
[URL="http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147372&cm_re=samsung_850_evo-_-20-147-372-_-Product"]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147372&cm_re=samsung_850_evo-_-20-147-372-_-Product[/URL]

-HDD: Western Digital 1 TB 3.5-Inch 7200 RPM SATA III Desktop Hard Drive ($68.12CDN)
[URL="http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0088PUEPK/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=1WX5ZBFH2V8N9ED734H8&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2055621862&pf_rd_i=desktop"]http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0088PUEPK/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=1WX5ZBFH2V8N9ED734H8&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2055621862&pf_rd_i=desktop[/URL]

-(POTENTIAL)PSU:CORSAIR CX series CX500M 500W ($84.99CDN)
[URL="http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139050&leaderboard=1"]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139050&leaderboard=1[/URL]

Feel free to scrutinize any choices I make. If there's a better deal / part, I'd like to hear about it. A quick response would be helpful; ideally I want to order as early as possible to ensure there will still be stock and I can get in on the savings. Besides, I often find it takes some time to ship. I'll check back here soon with the hope a seeing a response. Thanks. :D Edited November 26, 2015 by RazorWolf19

[scribbleheli]

Isnt the i7 4790k on sale for 299?



Oh NVM, your in Ca.

[scribbleheli]

Well, I took advantage of black Friday and now have a Asus Maximus VIII Ranger Mobo and 16Gb of Gskill 2133 DDR4 on its way to me.

Any one else take advantage of deals for their KSP 1.1 ready PCs?

 

[briansun1]

Bought a 380 4gb over black friday. Seems to be doing well. I do have a question how much of a difference does going from 2gb vram to 4gb  do? On another note I keep getting the "your computer is low on memory" even though I'm using less than 1/2 the ram I have. Do I just need to increase my page file size?

[scribbleheli]

I do not know about the second question.

But I have recently done a lot of looking into the first question. And it seems like the answer is "it depends"

The Vram is just a faster closer version of the DRAM of the PC. Its where textures and color bit maps are loaded and stored before being processed by the GPU.

I watched this How much Vram do you need?

It seems like games that have lots of hi-res textures and your screen resolution play a big roll in the memory needs. KSP or Minecraft do not.

A 1080p screen x 32 bit color data is like 8Mb + all the texture info. But if you play on 4K. its like 33Mb of just color data. Add your Skyrim beautification mods and the memory starts to matter.

[briansun1]

1 hour ago, scribbleheli said:

I do not know about the second question.

But I have recently done a lot of looking into the first question. And it seems like the answer is "it depends"

The Vram is just a faster closer version of the DRAM of the PC. Its where textures and color bit maps are loaded and stored before being processed by the GPU.

I watched this How much Vram do you need?

It seems like games that have lots of hi-res textures and your screen resolution play a big roll in the memory needs. KSP or Minecraft do not.

A 1080p screen x 32 bit color data is like 8Mb + all the texture info. But if you play on 4K. its like 33Mb of just color data. Add your Skyrim beautification mods and the memory starts to matter.

Thank's for the info.

[Slam_Jones]

Hello again,

I'm thinking about (eventually) building and setting up a dedicated server PC, able to host multiplayer games for various... games.

My question is, is there specific hardware that I should be looking at for this?  Which components are the most vital?  I assume the big ones are Internet Speed (both upload and download), RAM, and CPU.  I also assume that RAM should be at a high clock speed (1866 is the top for DDR3, right?  Also thinking about DDR4, as by the time I have the money to do this, it'll likely be the standard).  What about CPU?  Are there specific lines of CPUs built specifically for servers?  If not, which ones would be most appropriate, and are there any specifics I should look for (like, should I be more interested in single-thread speed, or hyper-thread speed, or something along those lines?)

Any help would be appreciated!

 

Edit: While I'm at it, does anyone know a good site to rent such a server from for a reasonable price?  The intention would be simply to host a dedicated server for a particular game.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Slam_Jones
Another related question