scribbleheli Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 39 minutes ago, Elthy said: My overclocked i5 3570k lowers its voltage and clockspeed as its supposed to do while in idle, while running at 4,2 Ghz under load. Afaik thats not possible with non-k Skylake CPUs. My 6700k does that. Right now its idling at 800MHz since all im doing is Hw. Goes to 4.6Ghz when KSP starts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacha Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 hour ago, cantab said: When I overclocked my old Phenom II I believe my procedure was to disable the "Cool 'n' Quiet" feature that clocks down the CPU when idle, do the overclock, but then once the chosen speed is reached I re-enabled CnQ and checked stability again. You are right though that power consumption and heat generation varies with load even without the clock speed changing. You can do this, but it can interfere with the overclock. Like I said, saving power and overclocking are pretty much opposed goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I'm not sure how current your info is on that, Camacha. I overclock my CPU, and it throttles back voltage and frequency properly when under light load just fine, and it jumps back to the OC settings when the load ramps up. Power saving and overclocking aren't opposite goals exactly, but goals pursued at different times/conditions. My CPU is an Intel, might be different for AMD chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantab Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Opposed to some extent, but not to the point that any overclocking should mean abandoning all ideas of energy-efficiency. Let's say I got a 4.5 GHz overclock with power saving disabled, but only a 4.3 GHz one with it enabled, I might choose the second option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacha Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said: I'm not sure how current your info is on that, Camacha. I overclock my CPU, and it throttles back voltage and frequency properly when under light load just fine, and it jumps back to the OC settings when the load ramps up. Power saving and overclocking aren't opposite goals exactly, but goals pursued at different times/conditions. My CPU is an Intel, might be different for AMD chips. I am not sure how much more I can add to my previous comment: You can do this, but it can interfere with the overclock. Also note I was careful not to call them exact opposite goals, but goals that are pretty much opposed. If you look at chip technology and what drives power consumption, you see that it scales almost linearly with clock speed. If you want economy, you clock down. If you want speed, you clock up. Some very interesting experiments have been done, building very frugal systems by underclocking a high end chip to the absolute minimum. Add to that the observation that it is easier to make less dynamic systems stable and that energy saving technologies can cause unexpected side effects and those add up to my conclusion Both theory and practice tells us that if you want to do an optimal overclock, you need to forget about energy expenditure (expect for getting rid of the heat, of course). If you are willing to compromise, other arrangements can be made. 1 hour ago, cantab said: Opposed to some extent, but not to the point that any overclocking should mean abandoning all ideas of energy-efficiency. Let's say I got a 4.5 GHz overclock with power saving disabled, but only a 4.3 GHz one with it enabled, I might choose the second option. Compromising between the two opposites is an option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 It doesn't interfere with the overclock, though. The overclocked settings are orthogonal from the idle settings, so you can dial up the OC and still use all the idle power consumption features when not fully loaded. There is also the phenomenon of "race to idle", which means that in some circumstances a faster, higher-energy peak speed can reduce overall energy consumption as it completes tasks faster and spends more time at idle. This is less relevant for gaming, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacha Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said: It doesn't interfere with the overclock, though. The overclocked settings are orthogonal from the idle settings, so you can dial up the OC and still use all the idle power consumption features when not fully loaded. But it does interfere - or rather, it might. That was my point Having the system switch between settings can cause fluctuations and issues that prevent the optimum overclock. You can have your system switch between overclock and frugal idle settings, but it is more likely to cause issues and instability. It is not a given, but that was never the claim. Again, and I am not sure how I can convey this differently - you can overclock and have energy conserving features turned on, but it can interfere with the overclock and therefore stability of the system. That is all. It is a complicating factor that might push a system over the edge when it is already close to it. If you are willing to compromise, things are less likely to go awry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuansenhama Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) I hate to butt into what might be an ongoing discussion, but I've been considering buying the parts for and building a computer. So just treat me as a total newbie to this kind of thing that knows absolutely nothing (aside from having watched a couple of youtube vids). I have two main questions: 1. Where is a good place where I can start shopping for and compare computer components? (Cases, Drives, Motherboards, etc). Ideally some place where I can see and compre the performance, compatibility and price of each component. 2. How long does it take to assemble a computer from the components? I've seen videos online and it looks like it can be done in a Saturday if you know what you're doing, but I don't know if it is shorter or longer. Edited February 1, 2016 by Kuansenhama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randox Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 5 hours ago, Kuansenhama said: I hate to butt into what might be an ongoing discussion, but I've been considering buying the parts for and building a computer. So just treat me as a total newbie to this kind of thing that knows absolutely nothing (aside from having watched a couple of youtube vids). I have two main questions: 1. Where is a good place where I can start shopping for and compare computer components? (Cases, Drives, Motherboards, etc). Ideally some place where I can see and compre the performance, compatibility and price of each component. 2. How long does it take to assemble a computer from the components? I've seen videos online and it looks like it can be done in a Saturday if you know what you're doing, but I don't know if it is shorter or longer. To the first question, there are people more qualified than I to comment, but for comparing computer parts, anandtech is a good place to start. They have detailed benchmarks you can compare for many CPU's and GPU's. Ideally, you will want to find hardware you are familiar with that you can compare to hardware you want. CPU benchmarks will all be artificial tasks, how well a CPU does at a certain type of job. I usually focus on the cinebench benchmarks. GPU's have artificial tests as well, but they also benchmark them on a powerful computer (that is otherwise identical for all the cards) and get frame rates, so you can see real world performance. The downside to this is that the test computer changes over time, so you'll usually only be able to compare GPU's within a couple of years of each other (this is where you will have to rely more on the frame rate tests. Focus on games that you own, or would like to own. Don't just look at the results for one game). CPU benchmarks:http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/39 GPU benchmarks (2015): http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU15/1248 For the second question, from scratch, if you've never done it before, I would set aside something like four hours. It depends on if you prepare properly, and how comfortable you are with tinkering. Most of the work is screwing things in. Plugging all the wires into the motherboard is also an adventure. You will want to read the assembly instructions for everything, and you'll probably end up reading more of your motherboard manual than you ever expected (good stuff, you'll want to hang on to that one). Definitely doable in a day though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elthy Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 If you dont want to spend months reading through the basics of computer hardware its better to ask people who did. Simple numbers from benchmarks are not that usefull on their own, there are many factors that have to be included. E.g. those anandtech CPU-Benchmarks: Are you using the software cinebench is based on? Propably not. Also the top places are taken by Xeon-CPUs with many cores but low clockspeed, which is quite useless in most games, especialy KSP (may change with 1.1). Maybe you think now "High clockspeed is good", but thats also wrong. I could go on for hours, but what i want to say: If you realy want to know stuff about hardware you have to read through hardwarenews, benchmarks, forums and user-tests over the course of months. If you are german i could name you lots of websites which could help you with that. But if you just want a PC without making hardware a hobby you are better off asking us (or in a country-specific hardware forum). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 8 hours ago, Kuansenhama said: I hate to butt into what might be an ongoing discussion, but I've been considering buying the parts for and building a computer. So just treat me as a total newbie to this kind of thing that knows absolutely nothing (aside from having watched a couple of youtube vids). I have two main questions: 1. Where is a good place where I can start shopping for and compare computer components? (Cases, Drives, Motherboards, etc). Ideally some place where I can see and compre the performance, compatibility and price of each component. 2. How long does it take to assemble a computer from the components? I've seen videos online and it looks like it can be done in a Saturday if you know what you're doing, but I don't know if it is shorter or longer. I strongly recommend you check out Tech Report's System Guide for hardware recommendations and their How to Build a PC article for the basics of assembly. Assembly can take anywhere from a couple of hours for someone who's skilled at it to a whole day for beginners, assuming nothing goes wrong. If you are new to it just take your time and do your research beforehand, it's well within the grasp of anyone who can competently operate a screwdriver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briansun1 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 14 hours ago, Kuansenhama said: I hate to butt into what might be an ongoing discussion, but I've been considering buying the parts for and building a computer. So just treat me as a total newbie to this kind of thing that knows absolutely nothing (aside from having watched a couple of youtube vids). I have two main questions: 1. Where is a good place where I can start shopping for and compare computer components? (Cases, Drives, Motherboards, etc). Ideally some place where I can see and compre the performance, compatibility and price of each component. 2. How long does it take to assemble a computer from the components? I've seen videos online and it looks like it can be done in a Saturday if you know what you're doing, but I don't know if it is shorter or longer. A good place to do comparisons and priceing is https://pcpartpicker.com/. For actually buying if you're in America look and see if you have Micro center close to you. Amazon and newegg are also good. I would set aside an afternoon for the entire build from assembly to loading OS, drivers, and troubleshooting. Do you have general idea what you want to use the computer for and how much you are going to budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribbleheli Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 14 hours ago, Kuansenhama said: I hate to butt into what might be an ongoing discussion, but I've been considering buying the parts for and building a computer. So just treat me as a total newbie to this kind of thing that knows absolutely nothing (aside from having watched a couple of youtube vids). I have two main questions: 1. Where is a good place where I can start shopping for and compare computer components? (Cases, Drives, Motherboards, etc). Ideally some place where I can see and compre the performance, compatibility and price of each component. 2. How long does it take to assemble a computer from the components? I've seen videos online and it looks like it can be done in a Saturday if you know what you're doing, but I don't know if it is shorter or longer. I spent a lot of time on YouTube watching review and comparisons videos. Though I knew I wanted the 6700k CPU. Trying to decide on a motherboard was pretty daunting to me, so started with a hard budget on that. Found the ones that fit that budget, and watched every video and review I could find on them to try and decipher which features would be important to me. I always keep an eye out for the open box/refurb deals. Get more bang for your buck. But once a new motherboard was added in my price range, it was a mad dash to glean every bit of information I could to see if it was the one that would fit me best. So advice to #1 is tell us what your goals are, and more or less a budget to work with, and we can point you in (hopefully) the right direction. #2, Is quite dependent on how well you did your homework and shopping. Making sure everything is compatible, then it really is quite near to plug and play. I put my new PC together in about 20 min. I tested it, then tore is all back down over and over until over the course of about 2 hours until I was happy with placement and cable management of all components. I use PC Part Picker to find parts. It has a nice "Build it" feature that checks compatibility. I would suggest a SSD for the OS boot and KSP. Absolutely not required but it is really nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantab Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Tomshardware is another site with reviews. And if you'll be running Linux check on Phoronix, they do reviews and benchmarking under Linux. For assembly time, if it's your first build then clear a day for it, and don't be surprised if you have to get the bits you forgot about and complete the build another day. I'll be honest, I found my PC build physically and mentally exhausting, a lot of awkwardly hunching over the case and I was all tense about it. If you do finish the hardware side of things in good time you can use the rest of the day for the Windows and software installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HafCoJoe Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Well, I'm not sure if many of you are pcpartpicker fans but if you have an account, my brother made an insane guide for a $2000 computer with a custom cooling block with a 980 Ti and Intel 6700k. If only I had a spare $1999.84 XD You should give him an updoot for me if you have an account. http://pcpartpicker.com/guide/pWKH99/msi-build-your-dream-pc-guide-gaming-underwater-full-custom-loop 'aight that's it. Edited February 9, 2016 by Avera9eJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camacha Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 15 hours ago, Avera9eJoe said: Well, I'm not sure if many of you are pcpartpicker fans but if you have an account, my brother made an insane guide for a $2000 computer with a custom cooling block with a 980 Ti and Intel 6700k. If only I had a spare $1999.84 XD If you are in the market for a new system, you could probably do an equally fast system for half or a little over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endersmens Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Ok, so. A few months ago you guys helped me put together a ~$500 gaming build. Well, I've been fine tuning it, and today I gave it an overhaul. Unfortunately I still don't have the money, but I will soon. I got a job and will most likely work out a deal with my dad to where he gets my laptop and then pays for half of my new computer. Anyways, I wanted to see what you guys thought. How much of an improvement is the second build over the first? It's almost the exact same price, with, as far as I can tell, much better performance. I will probably be adding a $100 monitor to it, so it will be more, but that would've been the same either way. First build, $571 = http://pcpartpicker.com/p/sxXfqs Second build, $582 = http://pcpartpicker.com/p/WwBN3C How did I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantab Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 If you're KSPing the FX-6300 is still the wrong processor, go for a Core i3 which will match or beat the 6300 in most other games anyway. For games that aren't KSP going from a 750 Ti to a 960 is a big improvement. You've done quite well to get it in the same budget, provided that SSD is decent. (But even a "bad" SSD is almost always faster than a mechanical drive.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endersmens Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 35 minutes ago, cantab said: If you're KSPing the FX-6300 is still the wrong processor, go for a Core i3 which will match or beat the 6300 in most other games anyway. For games that aren't KSP going from a 750 Ti to a 960 is a big improvement. You've done quite well to get it in the same budget, provided that SSD is decent. (But even a "bad" SSD is almost always faster than a mechanical drive.) Well, KSP will be played on it, but I also will be using it for other games, lots of other games, as well as video editing and 3d rendering. The fx-6300 seemed like a better option, especially overclocked to 4GHz. (The fx-6350, the "new" version, is just a factory overclocked fx-6300 .-. ) I was able to save money on case, memory, storage, and PSU, while gaining more internal space in the case, and a bigger PSU. Any recommendations on good monitors? It has to be $100 or less, 1080p, and preferably over 21". Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HafCoJoe Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I actually went from an AMD 8 core FX processor which clocked at 3.5GHz to an i5-6500 which clocks at 3.2GHz with 4 cores. It runs faster and at a much better temperature. Sometimes core clock is slightly less important. - Depends on what you're doing. Edited February 12, 2016 by Avera9eJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantab Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 50 minutes ago, Endersmens said: Any recommendations on good monitors? It has to be $100 or less, 1080p, and preferably over 21". That's clearance sale or second-hand territory I think. You probably can't be too picky, but look out for bargains and try and find a reputable review before you buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endersmens Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 2 hours ago, cantab said: That's clearance sale or second-hand territory I think. You probably can't be too picky, but look out for bargains and try and find a reputable review before you buy. There is one, 24" 1080p for $99 but I hadn't heard of the brand so I was hesitant. I don't have a link at the moment, but I think it was AOE or something like that. I'll figure it out tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperpig Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 my old pc is about 5 yr old now, amd fx-6300, ATI Radean 5770 graphic, 8gb memory, samsung ssd. Asus mobo.. and i had a base of 241 parts... with max physics, it moves like an ant.(like 8 sec real life for 1 sec in KSP)............and i am on a project of Battlecruiser Minimus Mrk3.... 182 parts space ship... Jeb.......i need a better PC...... where i have a question now, i just placed order of following parts I7 4790k + heatsink MSI z97 gaming 5 16gb memory 750w corsair PSU, MSi R9 380 graphic i am bit worry now is r9 380 good enough.. since i have been playing my KSP in 1600x900....not even 1080p......... anyone have similar build that could give some advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elthy Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) The R9 380 is good enough for KSP, Graphics never were the problem. But the other parts are "suboptimal" to say the least... i7 <- Overpriced, if you dont know why you would need an i7 you dont need one. Also why Haswell, not Skylake? You dont want to reuse your memory anyway if you ordered another 16Gb i guess... The mainboard is overpriced, what special features of it do you need to justify such a high price? This PC wont use more than 450W (even under extreme OC), so that 750W PSU is a bad idea. Also most tests ive read say that the Sapphire R9 380 is the better version, propably cheaper, too. Also you dont state if you buy the 2Gb or 4Gb version. If you want to play games other than KSP you should buy the 4Gb version, way more future-proof... Edited February 9, 2016 by Elthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endersmens Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Here is that monitor I was talking about. 24", 1920x1080, 5ms refresh, 60Hz. https://pcpartpicker.com/part/aoc-monitor-e2425swd Company is AOC. Anyone have experience with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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