KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[Alphasus]

9 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

GTX 1050 has a higher clock speed, all Nvidia cards do. A RX 460 is neck and neck with a GTX 1050 I believe, but eventually will outperform it due to the way AMD's driver updates work. It's also optimized for DirectX 12 and Vulkan, so it's a better deal. Also a RX 460 4GB ASUS STRIX for $96 is not a bad deal, either. Rebate expires on Jan 31, though. RX 470 is neck-and-neck with the GTX 1050ti and will outperform it in DirectX12/Vulkan games. MSi's Twin Frozr cooler is the best right now I believe, mine on my RX 480 8GB runs very quietly and I can run most games at 1080p/Ultra at 60+FPS, most graphically intensive game I play is Titanfall 2, I average above 60FPS. AMD is also great for FreeSync as well.

EDIT: Found this graph

Found this review website showing on the 2nd page of benchmarks, the 1050 winning by 10 fps or more. On the 1st page of benchmarks, AMD wins very few but they are closer. The RX460 and 1050 aren't neck and neck, as the review site shows. I'll look for a cheap 1050 so sure.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2658-gtx-1050-ti-and-1050-review-benchmarks-vs-460-more/page-5

[steve_v]

10 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

A RX 460 is neck and neck with a GTX 1050 I believe, but eventually will outperform it due to the way AMD's driver updates work.

EDIT: Found this graph
 

How hard did you have to look to find a benchmark that puts the 460 "neck and neck" with a 1050?
I did a bunch of research before purchasing my 1070 and I couldn't find a single review that (averaging across benchmarks) has a 460 matching a 1050, or a 480 matching a 1060... And as far as I can tell, AMD has nothing at all that can touch the 1070 or 1080.

----
Ed. I can see why you only linked the image, not the full review... The 460 loses out in every other test.
Look, I can cherry-pick a the same review too:

----

Speculative "driver updates" are speculative, and I'll believe the "eventually will outperform" bit when if it "eventuates".
Why are you insisting that these cards have equivalent performance, when the rest of the internet says otherwise? They're certainly cheaper, but benchmarks say they're also slower... And not exactly better value.

Edited January 20, 2017 by steve_v

[Alphasus]

2 minutes ago, steve_v said:

How hard did you have to look to find a benchmark that puts the 460 "neck and neck" with a 1050?
I did a bunch of research before purchasing my 1070 and I couldn't find a single review that (averaging across benchmarks) has a 460 matching a 1050, or a 480 matching a 1060... And as far as I can tell, AMD has nothing at all that can touch the 1070 or 1080.
Speculative "driver updates" are speculative, and I'll believe the "eventually will outperform" bit when if it "eventuates".
Why are you insisting that these cards have equivalent performance, when the rest of the internet says otherwise? They're certainly cheaper, but benchmarks say they're also slower.

Because the 480 can compete with the 1060 in DX12 which is the future. However, the 460 can't compete with a 1050. Showed that above. The eventually outperform is a trend along most comparable AMD vs Nvidia comparison.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Alphasus

[cantab]

In general the gaming graphics card market is competitive, and the current generation of cards are priced in accord with their performance. There are often small advantages to one side or the other, but rarely is there a major performance-per-dollar disparity. Comparing two GPUs at the same price point usually has both 'winning' in different games.

In short, arguably don't worry too much. Any current-gen gaming card that matches your budget is likely a sensible buy.

(The exception is when one company has just released something new and the competitor hasn't adjusted prices in response yet, of course.)

Edited January 20, 2017 by cantab

[steve_v]

2 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

Because the 480 can compete with the 1060 in DX12 which is the future.

Sure, for Windows. Which I don't really care much about.
But so what? It's still slower under every other API (including Vulkan, which is the future) and any game you might want to play today.
As well as that, it's less power efficient... to the extent of pulling more than it's stated specification under load and exceeding the PCIE spec for want of another aux power connector.
 

[Alphasus]

1 hour ago, steve_v said:

Sure, for Windows. Which I don't really care much about.
But so what? It's still slower under every other API (including Vulkan, which is the future) and any game you might want to play today.
As well as that, it's less power efficient... to the extent of pulling more than it's stated specification under load and exceeding the PCIE spec for want of another aux power connector.
 

Fair point if you don't use Windows.

EDIT: Power is almost irrelevant because it is maybe 25W, which won't affect an electric bill much as all. I understand the inconvenience of an extra cable for the GPU though.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Alphasus

[Camacha]

7 hours ago, Alphasus said:

EDIT: Power is almost irrelevant because it is maybe 25W, which won't affect an electric bill much as all. I understand the inconvenience of an extra cable for the GPU though.

Heat is noise, which matters to some people a lot. Even though I think the difference here is small.

I pick my cards according to power consumption, because I loathe noise. Having a good cooler is part of the solution, not having to dissipate a lot of energy is the basis.

[legoclone09]

2 hours ago, Camacha said:

Heat is noise, which matters to some people a lot. Even though I think the difference here is small.

I pick my cards according to power consumption, because I loathe noise. Having a good cooler is part of the solution, not having to dissipate a lot of energy is the basis.

I've got a MSi cooler on my GPU, the Twin Frozr cooler, they're really quiet and cold, I should check my power consumption, though. Also I believe the voltage delivered to the GPU is what matters, not the wattage needed to run the card. You can always downvolt and downclock the GPU to run quieter.

And yeah sorry about cherrypicking the benchmarks, I think I've spent too much time on r/ayymd.

[Camacha]

2 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

IAlso I believe the voltage delivered to the GPU is what matters, not the wattage needed to run the card. You can always downvolt and downclock the GPU to run quieter.

Voltage in itself says little about power consumption. If you remember high school, voltage times amps is watts. The number of watts is the actual quantity of power consumed. While it is true that lowering the voltage can reduce power consumption, this is the case because you multiply the amps by a lower number, resulting in less watts.

First buying an expensive card and then downclocking could work, but you spend a lot of money on something you only partly use.

[legoclone09]

Just now, Camacha said:

Voltage in itself says little about power consumption. If you remember high school, voltage times amps is watts. The number of watts is the actual quantity of power consumed. While it is true that lowering the voltage can reduce power consumption, this is the case because you multiply the amps by a lower number, resulting in less watts.

First buying an expensive card and then downclocking could work, but you spend a lot of money on something you only partly use.

Yeah, that does work (I am still in high school, though, in my freshman year). What I was trying to say was about the heat, because when I overclocked my CPU upping voltage increased temps, which is what I expect to happen with a GPU as well.

[Alphasus]

7 hours ago, Camacha said:

Heat is noise, which matters to some people a lot. Even though I think the difference here is small.

I pick my cards according to power consumption, because I loathe noise. Having a good cooler is part of the solution, not having to dissipate a lot of energy is the basis.

The power consumption difference isn't greater than 20-25W as far as this review says. http://techreport.com/review/30488/amd-radeon-rx-460-graphics-card-reviewed/12

The 750 Ti used 20W less, so that means the RX 460 uses 95W under full load( only variable being GPU) because a 750 Ti uses all 75W. That also means that the real difference between the 1050(Ti) is at least 20 watts. I don't specifically know how much 20W extra power usage can affect heat dissipation.

2 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

Yeah, that does work (I am still in high school, though, in my freshman year). What I was trying to say was about the heat, because when I overclocked my CPU upping voltage increased temps, which is what I expect to happen with a GPU as well.

That's not a bad inference. As long as amperage stays the same, voltage should cause temperature to increase, due to wattage increasing. If voltage increases at the same rate that amperage decreases, temperature should hypothetically stay the same.

5 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

I've got a MSi cooler on my GPU, the Twin Frozr cooler, they're really quiet and cold, I should check my power consumption, though. Also I believe the voltage delivered to the GPU is what matters, not the wattage needed to run the card. You can always downvolt and downclock the GPU to run quieter.

And yeah sorry about cherrypicking the benchmarks, I think I've spent too much time on r/ayymd.

Yeah, actually using the phrase Novideo shows that to be true. It's only a thing on ayymd as far as I know.

Is this thread just computers or is it keyboards and other peripherals too? I'd like to ask people what keyboards they've been using and want to know if this is the best place to do it.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Alphasus

[legoclone09]

12 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

Is this thread just computers or is it keyboards and other peripherals too? I'd like to ask people what keyboards they've been using and want to know if this is the best place to do it.

Keyboards and everything else. I'm using this keyboard right now: https://www.amazon.com/Glorious-Gaming-Mechanical-Keyboard-Minimalist/dp/B01D8YNJH0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484970833&sr=8-1

Yeah, I only see it on ayymd, I have seen it on r/pcmasterrace as well a bit, but usually when r/ayymd leaks.

[Alphasus]

29 minutes ago, legoclone09 said:

Keyboards and everything else. I'm using this keyboard right now: https://www.amazon.com/Glorious-Gaming-Mechanical-Keyboard-Minimalist/dp/B01D8YNJH0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484970833&sr=8-1

Yeah, I only see it on ayymd, I have seen it on r/pcmasterrace as well a bit, but usually when r/ayymd leaks.

At present, I have a Poker 3. 

http://m.imgur.com/a/4p9Bp

Click the link I guess. It has MX Clears, Blue LEDs, and Vortex PBT Doubleshot Shinethrough keycaps(the new ones with top legends).

How do you like Gateron Browns? I really don't like MX Browns due to the tiny tactile bump, but I hear Gateron Browns have a bigger, smoother bump.

 

Edited January 21, 2017 by Alphasus

[legoclone09]

7 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

At present, I have a Poker 3. 

http://m.imgur.com/a/4p9Bp

Click the link I guess. It has MX Clears, Blue LEDs, and Vortex PBT Doubleshot Shinethrough keycaps(the new ones with top legends).

How do you like Gateron Browns? I really don't like MX Browns due to the tiny tactile bump, but I hear Gateron Browns have a bigger, smoother bump.

 

I love the Gat browns. I do wanna get a pok3r or a HHKB sometime for school since the keyboards at school feel like mashed potatoes. How do you like the MX Clears? Your keeb matches nicely with your mouse, I should get a G502 Proteus Core sometime, because RGB is pretty cool. I have a G602 right now, I like it a lot.

Edited January 21, 2017 by legoclone09

[Alphasus]

2 minutes ago, legoclone09 said:

I love the Gat browns. I do wanna get a pok3r or a HHKB sometime for school since the keyboards at school feel like mashed potatoes. How do you like the MX Clears?

I like the huge tactile bump, but am a bad reference for if switches are too heavy. I used a Model M at 80cN and it was quite a bit heavier than actuation on my Pok3r, which I've found to be really hard to measure,but it's either 55 or 65 grams. I'm quite sure it's 65g, but regardless, if you're used to Reds, Browns, or Gateron Clears, the MX Clear will feel heavy because you might try to bottom out. The MX Clears mean I don't bottom out anymore.

An HHKB would be nice, but I'd like a Pok3r in MX Blacks first. Either that or a Vortex Core or some custom 60% board that I build myself with Zealios and Zealencios, aluminum casing, and full programmability.

[legoclone09]

Just now, Alphasus said:

I like the huge tactile bump, but am a bad reference for if switches are too heavy. I used a Model M at 80cN and it was quite a bit heavier than actuation on my Pok3r, which I've found to be really hard to measure,but it's either 55 or 65 grams. I'm quite sure it's 65g, but regardless, if you're used to Reds, Browns, or Gateron Clears, the MX Clear will feel heavy because you might try to bottom out. The MX Clears mean I don't bottom out anymore.

An HHKB would be nice, but I'd like a Pok3r in MX Blacks first. Either that or a Vortex Core or some custom 60% board that I build myself with Zealios and Zealencios, aluminum casing, and full programmability.

Sounds cool, I wanna make a 60% with a left-sided numpad for use, I feel that would be very nice. Making that would be a pain, though, but it'd be fun. I do really wanna try MX Clears sometime also. I should go to one of the r/mk meetups sometime.

[Alphasus]

3 minutes ago, legoclone09 said:

Sounds cool, I wanna make a 60% with a left-sided numpad for use, I feel that would be very nice. Making that would be a pain, though, but it'd be fun. I do really wanna try MX Clears sometime also. I should go to one of the r/mk meetups sometime.

You could get a switch tester and test out Clears. With a modular keyboard, just put the MX Clear in wherever you are pressing most often and see how they are.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Alphasus

[Camacha]

1 hour ago, Alphasus said:

Is this thread just computers or is it keyboards and other peripherals too? I'd like to ask people what keyboards they've been using and want to know if this is the best place to do it.

Sure, shoot My experience is mostly with the various Razer Blackwidow models. I just happened to have received a X Chroma today. I love the Razer Green switches, but I am not too keen on the Oranges and MX Browns. Both lose most or all feedback when typing at speed.

I would love to build a keyboard for myself, but I have too many projects already.

 

3 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

Yeah, that does work (I am still in high school, though, in my freshman year). What I was trying to say was about the heat, because when I overclocked my CPU upping voltage increased temps, which is what I expect to happen with a GPU as well.

It would. As has been said before, by increasing voltage you multiply the amps by a larger number, resulting in more total energy being used. That energy is almost fully converted into heat, resulting in higher temperatures. Your conclusion is correct.

Undervolting helps keeping the chip cooler, as less energy flows through it. At a certain point, though, the difference between a 0 and a 1 becomes too indiscernible and problems start happening as random bits appear to have the wrong value.

Something similar happens when you apply a higher voltage. Having a bigger difference between 0 and 1 makes faster switching easier, though applying too much voltage leads to overheating and voltage leaking to neighbouring parts within the CPU (i.e. transistors), introducing errors. Bits that should be 0 suddenly appear to be 1 and ones that should be 1 appear to be a 0. If the hardware becomes too hot, it might be damaged by the heat. Relatively high voltages can damage hardware in itself too, due to electromigration. Both phenomena interact, amplifying each other.

 

36 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

Click the link I guess. It has MX Clears

Are those clicky?

Edited January 21, 2017 by Camacha

[legoclone09]

12 minutes ago, Camacha said:

It would. As has been said before, by increasing voltage you multiply the amps by a larger number, resulting in more total energy being used. That energy is almost fully converted into heat, resulting in higher temperatures. Your conclusion is correct.

Undervolting helps keeping the chip cooler, as less energy flows through it. At a certain point, though, the difference between a 0 and a 1 becomes too indiscernible and problems start happening. Something similar happens when you apply a higher voltage. Having a bigger difference between 0 and 1 makes faster switching easier, though applying too much voltage leads to overheating and voltage leaking to neighbouring parts, introducing errors or even damaging the hardware.

 

Are those clicky?

Well, I got something right for once 

According to Deskthority, MX Clears are tactile 55g actuation and 65g to bottom out.

[Alphasus]

12 hours ago, Camacha said:

Are those clicky?

MX Clears are very very tactile and they don't have sound feedback(other than the clack of bottoming out) but are more tactile than Blues and Razer Greens while not clicking. Their tactile bump is larger than the above 2 switches. They also are harder to actuate than Razer Greens or MX Blues, at 55 cN vs 50 cN(checked Deskthority for that). It is difficult to bottom out Clears due to their 95 cN peak force. Blues have a 60g peak force, so it's not too difficult to bottom them out.

Force/Travel diagram (CN / mm) comparing Cherry MX Clear to Cherry MX Brown. Each graph is the slider color. Shadowed lines are the up-strokes(From Deskthority).

 Force/Travel diagram of MX Blues. Lower line is upstroke(From WASD Keyboards).

11 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

Well, I got something right for once 

According to Deskthority, MX Clears are tactile 55g actuation and 65g to bottom out.

 

 

 

Peak force is bottoming out at 95 cN for clears, actuation is at 55 cN, and tactile bump is at 65 cN. Grams and cN are interchangeable but I prefer cN.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Alphasus

[Dynastic Labs]

On 12.8.2013 at 7:28 PM, ShockerGamer said:

Hey,

I really like KSP, and want to play it, and am planning to buy a mac mini as a new pc to replace my old 2000 emachine.

The problem is I don't know if KSP will work on it.

Here are the specs:

2.5GHz Mac mini

2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5

8GB RAM

500GB hard drive

Intel HD Graphics 4000

OS X Mountain Lion

Will this set up work?

-Shocker.

my lenovo thinkpad x230 with 8gb ram 256gb ssd intel core i7 3520m and intel hd graphics 4000 so it might run on lowest graphics 

 

[Dynastic Labs]

i have been thinking about buying a Mac mini with 2.6 ghz intel core i5 and intel iris graphics 5100 so i wonder will it run ksp just fine

[Ty Tan Tu]

Sure it will run. Not at full graphics and you will probably start losing some frames if your part count gets too high, but I think you will not be too disappointed.

[Ty Tan Tu]

I found this video of someone playing KSP 0.90 on a Mac Book Pro 13" circa 2014, which I think has the same Intel Iris Graphics 5100 as yours. I could be wrong, but I think the I5 should be good enough.

 

[GDJ]

5 hours ago, Dynastic Labs said:

i have been thinking about buying a Mac mini with 2.6 ghz intel core i5 and intel iris graphics 5100 so i wonder will it run ksp just fine

I'm currently using a 2012 Mac Mini with the dual core 2.5 GHz i5 and intel HD graphics 4000. It plays KSP just fine and you don't have to sandbag the graphics. The only time it shows any issues is when I was running BDAc challenges and I had about 200 bits of debris floating in the air after plane destruction. Even with all the debris and planes flying around shooting the frame rate was still respectable enough to play. Paired with a Samsung 850 Pro SSD it's very quick. On a total shutdown to your login page it takes mine 11 seconds. At 19 seconds you're checking your mail. Seriously.

I'm somewhat familiar with the Mac Mini's after 2012 and I know that you can't upgrade the RAM (soldered in) so if you are going to buy one new get at least 8 gigs. More is better because the video RAM is shared with main system memory. I currently have mine maxed out with 16 gigs of DDR3 1600 MHz RAM (Kingston HyperX) and the computer is showing 1.5 gigs of RAM allocated to video. If you can swing it, max out the RAM.

If you are going to get one used go for the 2012 Mac Mini Server models. They had quad-core i7 processors, dual SSD or HDD capabilities, and the same RAM and Video hardware. Used they are fairly affordable, and you can upgrade the RAM. New Mac Mini's you can upgrade the HDD or SSD. That's it.

They are a good machine that can do more than a "general use" computer can normally do. Personally, hit up the 2012 models. Most websites that specialize in Apple machines say that they are the better choice vs brand new units. The difference between HD 4000 and iris 5100 graphics will be minimal for general use and KSP.

I have no idea on what your budget is, but here is a excellent example of what I'm talking about:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Mini-Late-2012-Quad-Core-i7-2-6-GHz-16GB-RAM-275GB-SSD-1TB-HDD-/252727091658?hash=item3ad7b561ca:g:CdUAAOSw9GhYfFVa

 

Good luck with your search.

Edited January 21, 2017 by GDJ