Precision Propulsive Landings

[DrCHIVES]

With the addition of colonies and the knowledge  that resouce collection and transportation will be core in the advancement of gameplay, precision landings will become a necessary skill.  KSP1 as a base game was not too friendly when it came to this as your map view trajectory wouldn't take into account atmospheric drag or body rotation.  The "precise" aspect can be mitigated a bit with the use of spaceplanes, so long as the atmosphere is thick enough to provide the level of lift properties needed for winged approaches.  However, even this too, gets to be much more complicated with the introduction of axial tilt.  I mean we are talking about advanced level calculations regarding de-orbit windows and energy bleeding! There must be some trick up the sleeves of the devs regarding UI feedback to the players if we are expected to be landing on our own runways and landing/launch pads regularly.  Or, do we think it will be just that, unforgiving and left to the modders if you want something along the lines of the ksp1 trajectories mod?  I'm curious to see what other people are thinking regarding this.  Should we get that sort of UI assistance, or would that be making the game too easy and punish those that desire the challenge?

Edited December 22, 2022 by DrCHIVES
Typo

[Drakenred65]

I prefer max thrust “slam landing”

[SolarAdmiral]

I'm definitely hoping to see something like this too. I don't find precision landing too hard on low gravity and no atmosphere moons and planets, as long as I bring a little extra fuel. But I am the absolute worst at judging atmospheric reentry. I hope there's at least some basic atmosphere drag indications on the map. Maybe a way to do some testing with your craft to set the game to remember its reentry characteristics on a specific planet so it will display them for you.

[DrCHIVES]

1 hour ago, Drakenred65@Gmail.com said:

I prefer max thrust “slam landing”

Yes, but how do you know when to begin your de-orbit burn, especially when trying to land on a planet/moon with an atmosphere?  Add the fact that bodies beyond the Kerbolar system will have axial tilt in KSP2.  how will you plan your inclination of orbit so that it provides a window within a certain amount of orbits to begin your de-orbit burn and intersect your target location as the planet spins below you?  These are the questions I am asking about KSP2 and how others believe the developers should assist (or not assist) us in providing such information.  In KSP1 I use the trajectories mod.  It shows you the affect that atmospheric drag, rotation of the body below you, as well as what your current orientation will have on your landing location.  This helps me to plan when to perform de-orbit burns as well as how long I should burn for to ensure that I end up at the right location to perform a landing.  I also tend to avoid building ground stations too far off the equator of most bodies to prevent issues with inclination changes.  But this will prove to be more difficult in KSP2 as I mentioned before with axial tilt.  Would you like this information shown to you in some sort of UI overlay, or would your rather like to figure things out on your own and do the trial by error method?  Should this be left to the modding community?

1 hour ago, SolarAdmiral said:

I'm definitely hoping to see something like this too. I don't find precision landing too hard on low gravity and no atmosphere moons and planets, as long as I bring a little extra fuel. But I am the absolute worst at judging atmospheric reentry. I hope there's at least some basic atmosphere drag indications on the map. Maybe a way to do some testing with your craft to set the game to remember its reentry characteristics on a specific planet so it will display them for you.

Same here on the atmospheric landings!  Without the Trajectories mod it would take me multiple quick saves to achieve a close landing to a ground station. 

[K^2]

2 hours ago, DrCHIVES said:

Yes, but how do you know when to begin your de-orbit burn, especially when trying to land on a planet/moon with an atmosphere?

There is no real way to just get the "correct" trajectory. All you can do is get something close and then adjust the thrust and orientation to stay on that path. So that requires not just precise computation, but also numerical control of the landing craft. I don't think we'll have the adequate automation capability without mods, and even with mods this would have to be a fairly comprehensive one. Perhaps something with integration into some equivalent of kOS.

In vacuum, it's a bit more forgiving. For a single landing stage, you can compute precise time that engines must go to max thrust, and so long as SAS is locked to retrograde w.r.t. surface, you should be within tolerances. Since the game will now allow planning trajectories under thrust, this might even be possible in vanilla game by playing with transfer nodes. But even if not, a mod for this would be pretty trivial.

[shdwlrd]

There has been many arguments over helping the player launch, fly, or land over the years. Some people believe than you should hand fly blind with nothing but the navball to help you. Some believe that proper info and on screen guidance would be enough. Some want the option to have mostly automated flight from launch to landing.

Personally, I would like some stock guidance to help with all phases of flight. Something like a stock version of a suicide burn indicator, HUD with some type of guidance to tell you what needs to be done, something to suggest when to start your deorbit burn. Anything to help the player in the flight phases. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by shdwlrd
Premature post, stupid phone

[Jacke]

The mod Trajectories might be helpful.