Maneuver nodes are... really, really bad

[Scarecrow71]

21 minutes ago, Arizal said:

Thanks a bunch. I managed to install the mod loader (I stupidly thought there would be a steam workshop) and then the mod itself, and so far it seems to work like wonder. I guess there still are some places KSP2 is lacking compared to KSP1, but I think I'll resume my try to munland. It seems like the optimal burn would have been 30 orbits later, so I'm glad I posted here. All those precious delta V I would have lost...

Glad I could help.  That mod saved me more than 1000 dV in my recent trip to Duna.

[Angeloftruth]

Thank goodness I found this thread!!  I've been so frustrated trying to dock without being able to get the interects to line up when moving the the manoevre node round an orbit. Is it even possible? Great game though! I still have high hopes. I hope the devs are reading this.

[kspkat]

I agree the maneuver node should not be limited to how much fuel you have. As the one user mentioned the tool is for planning, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will be able to complete the maneuver. That's what looking at the required dV for maneuver and checking how much dV you have to give is for.

The problem with this is that while finding your planned orbit around say the Mun, you are now very limited to how far you can move the node (unless you build a delta v beast just to go to Mun)

It would be far easier to me (a noob) to be able to move the maneuver node freely, and then check I have the required dV available afterwards. You know for those times you need to play around with the node to get the right orbit. It threw me off the first time, it took me a while to realize it wouldn't move because lack of dV.

As for the static maneuver node editor thing, it's nice there is a mod already for this, but really this should be in the base game. This alone is a step back from KSP 1. I would like to see a progression and improvement on KSP 1. We should see similar features, but with improvements.

The node itself without the static node editor is atrocious. Dragging the node around was always something I disliked, I found myself using the static editor thing mostly in KSP1. Right now it feels clunky to move around, and too sensitive to dial in a near prefect 80/80 orbit. The static editor would fix this.

I'd hate this to be one of those games where the modders do all the work fixing things. I worry that having a mod for this might encourage that behavior. But what do I know, I am noob.

I do like seeing the SOI and how the orbit intersects with it though cuz I'm an idiot 

Edited March 31 by kspkat

[kfsone]

I couldn't agree more - the node UX is like kicking a dog when it's down, and you are also the dog, with a big factor of that being the way the entire UX is bad at tracking state - e.g you can "lock" the ap/pe tooltip windows but if something causes them to close such as adding too much dv, they remember their state despite not being visible, so when they do appear you have to click three times to lock them until you restart the game; if you go into gameplay settings, many of the options will show as OFF and ON being both selected because it restores the default state and then applies the current state and in the process remembers both things...

I'm posting here mostly because this thread brought me here trying to find "cannot create maneuver node: no fuel" for a ship with fuel. It turns out that from a late change to my staging/early activation of an engine, KSP2 was convinced I had no delta-v left. I guess they don't expect refuelling or RCS-based adjustments?

FIX: "+" an extra staging node for yourself, drag your engines into it, then make it the next/lowest stage, and voila, the game finally lets you create maneuver nodes again (assuming you have fuel).

Edited April 4 by kfsone

[Meecrob]

On 2/24/2023 at 2:37 PM, Talka said:

Is there advanced maneuver node functionality I'm missing, or are maneuver nodes just... bad? Catastrophically, game-breakingly bad?

• It is near impossible to select the vector you want. I can only grab my desired vector if I zoom in reaaaaally close, which then makes it impossible to see if my orbit is intercepting my destination. 
• There is no ability to make micro-adjustments. You only adjust by pulling the vectors.
• There is no read-out of how much you've pulled each vector, so if you accidently pull the wrong vector (which happens often!) you basically need to delete your node and start over.
• It is very difficult to move your maneuver node along your orbit. Again, you need to zoom in reaaaaally close to select the ball in the center of node.
• There's no way to change the phase of your maneuver, it seems? You can't "skip" orbits, e.g., to sync your maneuver with the Mun.

Please, please, please... focus on the maneuver nodes for your first update. They are so bad.

EDIT: Summarizing some other issues from this thread so we have a single list of what to improve:

• You can't see your orbital line passing through other celestial bodies' sphere of influence, i.e., you can't see the path you'll be taking past your destination. You have to settle for a random encounter that likely has a highly eccentric orbit.
• You can’t create or edit maneuver modes while paused.
• There is no read-out of your expected result altitude (Ap/Pe, etc) from your maneuver. 
• It is difficult to time your maneuvers around Ap/Pe for circularization burns, because the maneuver nodes represent the start of a burn rather than the center of one.
• Bugs galore. Sometimes the maneuver tracker doesn't start once you've started your burned. Switching to the map view resets your maneuver tracker mid-burn, sending you rocketing to an unplanned destination. Time warping doesn't work reliably; oftentimes you simply blow past the point on the orbit you were warping to.

I absolutely adore how this was posted release day and here we are over a year later and absolutely nothing has changed. We got an update about how eclipses are cool and how they kinda don't work in KSP2 at the moment. So there's that. I mean if you guys have hit a roadblock that requires attention that is delaying colonies, just tell us, we will understand. Oh wait, I forgot. Shareholders won't stand for not hitting quarterly earnings. Who cares about the legacy of the game, we have a stock price to keep up!

Edited April 7 by Meecrob