[0.21] Hooligan Labs - Airship, Submarines and More

[ahappydude]

Hey hooligan, check out the latest ballon trials here http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/35217-0-20-x-Extraplanetary-Launchpads/page6 Instead of spamming the same pics here hehe peace

[KhaosCorp]

Maybe put on the side? The project sounds really cool! You can edit the texture if you want, just open up the folder where the part is. That may be too many octopuses for anyone.

Absolutly will NOT retexture! I live by the ocean and love all things related, so the octopuses are cool. And my buddys race under the name Hooligan Motorsports (and I helped build 2 of their cars) so always been partial to the name as well =P

[Mihara]

I fiddled with this ship far, far too long, but I finally launched it for good, with Jeb at the helm. Because it's finicky as hell. I'll probably post a whole mission report when I'm done with it.

Duna Exploration Reusable Platform. Living space for four kerbals. Can get to Duna under it's own power once launched and fueled, can land on Duna with just enough fuel to deorbit, can mine it's own fuel and get to the mining site even when dry, can take off from Duna or do ballistic jumps above the atmosphere, can return from Duna if a refueling station is available in orbit (or if you can be certain you will hit Kerbin atmosphere when starting from Duna orbit with ~1500dV -- should be feasible but I prefer to play it safe) can cruise above the highest mountains of Duna at a leisurely 47 m/s indefinitely.

The disadvantages are that it's very slow to turn or accelerate, pretty much unflyable without MechJeb (and adding aerodynamic surfaces actually makes things worse) and requires extra care when actually landing, because the envelopes touch the ground before the landing legs. But if all it's supposed to do is send someone down with a flag, there's a winch for that.

It could, in theory, also cover Ike, but either it would need another set of landing legs, or a set of small landing engines to set down horizontally. There's no good place left for more landing legs, and with how it's reluctant to turn, flipping to horizontal landing in time just doesn't work very well.

[Hooligan Labs]

Hey hooligan, check out the latest ballon trials here http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/35217-0-20-x-Extraplanetary-Launchpads/page6 Instead of spamming the same pics here hehe peace

Nice~ Is that a living area built into the asteroid too?

Absolutly will NOT retexture! I live by the ocean and love all things related, so the octopuses are cool. And my buddys race under the name Hooligan Motorsports (and I helped build 2 of their cars) so always been partial to the name as well =P

Ha cool! My #1 complaint by far about the runways is the octopus, so I had to mention it.

Duna Exploration Reusable Platform.... But if all it's supposed to do is send someone down with a flag, there's a winch for that.

That looks awesome! I love unconventional ballistic and landing systems. Heck, unconventional anything.

More progress on stabilizing - somehow bjorked the altitude control for about the third time, but it now is much better at stabilizing asymmetrical designs. Still working out what would be the most useful general purpose approach.

I am considering uploading the new plugin with something related to a new model... just to finish with a bang!

[Mihara]

I am considering uploading the new plugin with something related to a new model... just to finish with a bang!

Speaking of the plugin... In the current version, sometimes, the envelopes flicker in and out of existence. Normally, that's not much of a problem, but recently, I've launched an aerobot to Eve in preparation of a later manned mission, and had the devil of a time with getting it to fly straight while in transfer -- center of mass kept shifting around.

Initially I thought that the real reason for this is ISA MapSat probes attached to the sides misbehaving -- MapSat is misbehaving in general, so I had to reassign models to being simple structural parts while I'm launching anything with more than one dish on it -- but upon detaching the probes, the effect did not disappear, and only went away when the envelope unfolded and the aerobot went down into the atmosphere.

This is very similar to what was happening to KAS parts while the KAS plugin was not yet updated to 0.20 -- the parts would not work, while they still loaded fine. But that was quite deceptive, as they would also flicker like this when in orbit, (not on the ground, for some reason, and the higher you go the worse it gets) briefly disappearing and reappearing. This was apparently confusing the physics engine enough, that it thought the center of mass was far outside the body of the ship, making every flight with anything KAS on it (which, in my case, is every flight period) unflyable until the plugin was fixed. There was nothing quite relevant in the debug log.

It might be that there is a bug in there somewhere.

[Hooligan Labs]

It might be that there is a bug in there somewhere.

Ok, I'll look into it. Probably should skip modeling and just focus on getting the plugin out.

[elfindreams]

Weird airship mishap / Bug report.

I had a multistage rocket/airship combo that I got into orbit to do a rescue mission.

It had a top stage with one of the "parachute balloons" (sorry game isn't in front of me to give you names) a command pod and a couple of the tin cans along with some backup parachutes (good that I had these as you will soon see). Second stage was my main tanks (RCS and fuel), engine and two of the new fancy cirrus balloons.

I got up into orbit rescued the kerbels, started my descent and when the bottom stage ran out of fuel (in high atmo, using it to slow/target the descent) dropped it like a lead balloon (all balloons were deployed at 100%). At which time I lost all balloon control (the window disappeared completely) and the remaining balloon didn't seem to function at all (waited till about 1k to deploy backup 'chutes).

NOTE: later switching back to the ship during the rescue mission for the rescue mission [they landed a bit off target about 10k away from KSC] the balloon was functional again so it hadn't "snapped off"

[Hooligan Labs]

That is really strange. Does the debug log say anything? Screenshots also help.

[elfindreams]

That is really strange. Does the debug log say anything? Screenshots also help.

I would but it happened late last night (ok early this morning) and I didn't think to get them. I will try and recreate the problem later.

[Mihara]

I would but it happened late last night (ok early this morning) and I didn't think to get them. I will try and recreate the problem later.

If you didn't start KSP yet again after that, your debug log can be found in <KSP Dir>/KSP_Data/output_log.txt - screenshots are at best half the picture.

[elfindreams]

I took a quick break from work and reproduced it....

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8a1K8EUgZmVY2Q1a0JKQUNBUkE&usp=sharing

Screenshots and log.

Just a note, as you might notice in the log I tried a number of things, I am not sure what the differences are but it only happened sometimes and it only happened a distance from KSC... it couldn't be reproduced on the pad or right after launch.

Edited June 12, 2013 by elfindreams

[Hooligan Labs]

Just a note, as you might notice in the log I tried a number of things, I am not sure what the differences are but it only happened sometimes and it only happened a distance from KSC... it couldn't be reproduced on the pad or right after launch.

Hm, thanks for the exhaustive data! Too bad the log doesn't contain anything useful. Can you hit Alt+F2 during flight and see what it says as you land?

I did find a bug in the way that my code finds the "lead envelope", which runs the GUI control. I've fixed it for the upcoming release, so maybe that will help.

[Astronomer]

I'm sure this has been requested, but are there any better models in the works? I mean I could make one myself, but I never made a mod for KSP before, I don't have much experience with animated parts either.

I think it's about time someone made a better model -perhaps shaped like an air balloon or even an airship, or simply without the sharp edges and better textures.

Also the script is OP, perhaps make it use electricity depending on the amount of beyonce. Or even require an air intake to run.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Astronomer

[KhaosCorp]

I think the envelopes look awesome...and FYI ludo blimp is rather 'hot air balloon' shaped, can make it look like small goodyear style blimp too.

Really excited for your next update HL....for some reason TAC fuel is not helping my airships as much as it used to prior to 0.20...and hopeing that skykool want to work with ya on all that too...that's going in my favorite mods list....right up there with kethane and airships!

[Hooligan Labs]

I took a quick break to try putting the Extraplanetary Launchpad mod onto my deployable shield design!

Uploaded to my Kerbal Space Port page, with the pictured craft included. Requires that the Extraplanetary Launchpad mod be downloaded separately.

Discussion thread is here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/35217-0-20-x-Extraplanetary-Launchpads?p=448570&viewfull=1#post448570

I think my other launch pads could easily have the .cfg files updated to include the ability...

MODULE
{
name = ExLaunchPad
debug = true
}

[elfindreams]

Also the script is OP, perhaps make it use electricity depending on the amount of beyonce. Or even require an air intake to run.

LOL then it is working perfectly I want no Beyonce in my KSP sorry couldn't resist it was too fun a typo... (it is Buoyancy btw)

As for the actual message, electricity would be cool IMO, however air intakes I don't think make sense since the idea (as I understand it) is that these are theoretical vacuum balloons. (at least the new one is)

[KhaosCorp]

LOL then it is working perfectly I want no Beyonce in my KSP sorry couldn't resist it was too fun a typo... (it is Buoyancy btw)

As for the actual message, electricity would be cool IMO, however air intakes I don't think make sense since the idea (as I understand it) is that these are theoretical vacuum balloons. (at least the new one is)

Not to mention that for the size envelopes to lift the weight they do realistically it wouldn't be hotair set up. The non vacuum ballons, like the ray, una, and ludo, would be lighter than air envelopes using hydrogen or helium.

[Hooligan Labs]

In general, the envelopes do not use the vessel's electricity because I have not taken the time to do the proper conversions from the units that KSP uses. Also, coding it can be a pain. Instead, the weight of the envelopes should include appropriate compressors, actuators, power sources, etc. The source code is available in the download if anyone wants to take a crack at it!

I gave a rant on how this stuff works if you follow the link on the front page. I also did some discussion on the energy required here.

Everyone wants a realistic model, but I don't have unlimited time. Gameplay and education comes first.

Note: The plugin is compatible with most any model, animated or not. If you want a different shape, go ahead! And share the crazy screenshots back here.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Hooligan Labs

[Mihara]

With the way electrical energy generation and consumption in KSP currently works, it has the same problems as drag. That is, there's no hope to make it realistic and at the same time matching stock scales because stock parts are neither realistic not follow a sensible scale themselves. Try to make the envelopes consume power at the rate they should, in theory, consume power, and you will not be able to actually use them because they won't lift the requisite amount of generators.

I'd say it's best left for a later date.

[Mihara]

Also: Whee!

P.S. Here, the whole album of the mission in progress: http://imgur.com/a/Voq2A -- they still have one more landmark to visit, possibly some geology to do and getting back, but that's the point I'm currently at.

Hooligan, if you think anything of that merits the use as publicity photos, feel free to make use of them.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Mihara

[not-a-cylon]

love the mods!

a few things:

I'm currently trying to make an Eve elevator powered by the envelopes for my spaceplanes in order to save massive delta V. While I can get my planes above the thickest part of the atmosphere, I run into the trouble of my elevator getting deleted once I decouple and fly away in my spaceplane. I know you're supposed to touch the ground in order to save the ship, but I believe I've stretched the Unity Engine to the limit with the lazor system draw distance increase and my edited 50,000 meter KAS grappling hook anchor.

Sometimes, I'm able to press the make slow button without touching the ground and make the airship save, but when I decouple, the spaceplane flies like it's still being affected by the make slow button even though I made sure to disable the make slow AND the airship is stuck in physics freeze (according to the in game debug) meaning I can't move my elevator at all, rendering it useless floating debris.

2. Any way to make the SQUID work on landing gears? I edited the gear bay part (correctly, as far as I know) to have the SQUID module on it. While the action group and context menus show up, the effects of SQUID don't happen.

3. I also put SQUID on the Hecto runway. I got it to work, but it only works on one part that it comes in contact with rather than all the parts that come in contact with it- usually my back left landing gear instead of all 3.

4. Could you make the Hecto runway foldable? If possible, as I know it would take some animation and coding wizardry, foldable with a way to attach things to it in the folded state.

The reason for questions 2-4: my floating runway 2300meters above the terrain on Kerbin! I use squid on the runway to slow down my approach (assuming my left wheel doesnt cause me to spin off) and squid to boost my spaceplane off. I'd love to move this thing to Duna. I know it's possible to use the extraplanetary launch pad to build one of these there, but I'm waiting until the bugs get ironed out.

[Hooligan Labs]

Hooligan, if you think anything of that merits the use as publicity photos, feel free to make use of them.

Sure, the people I have shown your design to have said "wow!" Front page'd.

I'm currently trying to make an Eve elevator powered by the envelopes for my spaceplanes in order to save massive delta V.

Awesome.

...I've stretched the Unity Engine to the limit with the lazor system draw distance increase and my edited 50,000 meter KAS grappling hook anchor.

Holy crap.

Sometimes, I'm able to press the make slow button without touching the ground and make the airship save, but when I decouple, the spaceplane flies like it's still being affected by the make slow button even though I made sure to disable the make slow AND the airship is stuck in physics freeze (according to the in game debug) meaning I can't move my elevator at all, rendering it useless floating debris.

I can attempt a fix, but this is a very unusual case... I'm shocked that KSP will even recognize that it is touching the ground at 50km up.

Can you share any screens of this thing in action?

2. Any way to make the SQUID work on landing gears? I edited the gear bay part (correctly, as far as I know) to have the SQUID module on it. While the action group and context menus show up, the effects of SQUID don't happen.

Not that I am aware of. Landing gear seems to use special wheel colliders that I do not know how to script to.

4. Could you make the Hecto runway foldable? If possible, as I know it would take some animation and coding wizardry, foldable with a way to attach things to it in the folded state.

Probably not anytime soon. In particular, the way that KSP works is that it doesn't recognize animation. I tried it with attachments allowed and they would not move when the animation deployed, they would just hang in the air. It might be possible if it put itself together out of parts in a way similar to how KAS works... which is some serious wizardy in my book, no matter how simple it looks in the source code.

I am thinking about redoing the animation for the launch pad which I modded to support the Extraplanetary Launchpad plugin, but it would not be a quick fix if I did.

The reason for questions 2-4: my floating runway 2300meters above the terrain on Kerbin!

Hahahahah niiiiiice. I would recommend that you use the extraplanetary launchpad mod, regardless of any potential bugs. You can even add it to my models by copying the right code to the cfg file. See my latest upload to KSPort for an example with the deployable type.

[KhaosCorp]

Extraplanetary Launchpad works fine, I've been using it since release 1.1, and im using Hooligaan blast shield for the pad. Its not buggy at all

[Mihara]

Here's a thought...

Based on the DERP experience, I am thinking of a similar airship which would detach a smaller, more nimble airship. While the DERP approach is perfect for long cross-planet trips, it's annoyingly hard to maneuver precisely over a target, a smaller airship docked to it would solve the problem. The more I'm thinking about it, the more I realize that it will be much easier to get the bigger one to move, and especially SSTO, if I can prevent the envelope on the smaller one (a Ray or Una, most likely) from inflating at all until I need it to, as not doing that would mess up my center of lift.

Is this feasible?

[Hooligan Labs]

Currently, they system is designed to activate all at once. I have not yet completed the code update to allow for individual control.

Note that there currently is no difference in drag between the deployed and undeployed Cirrus.