Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[KhaosCorp]

More scanners as in more satellites or more scanners as in 1 satellite with a lot of scanners on it?

One ship, lots of scanners! The idea behind fast scanning is per pass resolution on time warp. The faster you warp the more scanners your gonna need.

When I said I had mapped Kerbin in 15min, it was done with close to 60 of the bigger size scanner at max warp, was getting 85-90%ish per pass resolution.

Also why I said BEEFY...my 'small' scanning sats are usually around 25tons or so. I have launched scanning sats that were over 60tons (single sat).

Edited August 7, 2013 by KhaosCorp

[Tyren]

What the Oo I have 8 6 Tons single-Scanners in my Orbit around Kerbin on different inclinations...but 60 Tons lol

[sarbian]

There are design for such ship in the thread, around .21 release I think.

[BrutalRIP]

Just a heads up the latest kethane seems to break Universe Replacer mod

[Silvester]

anyone had try debug mode and not getting bug?

[Silvester]

nevermind my previous post, anyone who get debug error can change the default window location

default:

WindowLeft = 200

WindowTop = 200

change into

WindowLeft = 201

WindowTop = 200

as for the unretract-able radial drill, the solution for now is just to fly or launch again because as long as the drill connected to the ground it cannot be retracted

ps: the bug occours only if you drill at the spot that do not have kethane underneath

Edited August 7, 2013 by Silvester

[kodemunkey]

OK, basic question, do i put the kethane tank on top of the drill for it to transfer kethane?

[Crater]

OK, basic question, do i put the kethane tank on top of the drill for it to transfer kethane?

No need. The flow-type for kethane is all-vessel, which means in simple terms that kethane can freely pass from any part to to any other on your ship. It is only Liquidfuel and Oxidizer that have the complicated flowtypes that need hoses and such.

So for a converter, you are best off stacking it with a fuel tank (otherwise you need a fuel line from a tank to the converter which is what throws people, it sounds like the wrong direction), but for a drill, you just need it to be on the same vessel as a kethane tank, or docked to one, or KAS-docked to one.

[Silvester]

OK, basic question, do i put the kethane tank on top of the drill for it to transfer kethane?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/35664-Kethane-Usage-and-Proper-Fuel-Routing

[Phoenix36C]

I can't mine any Kethane. My plugins are messed up somehow.

[vardicd]

I just deploy kethane probes and leave the game running at 10x or 50x time warp when I go to work. 8 hours later the planet, moon, whatever is mapped. let the pc do the work while you are working.

[kodemunkey]

At the moment i'm working on a kethane drilling rig with a docking port to transfer the kethane to a processor, thing is my drill (the small one) isn't extracting kethane from the deposit, do i need to move around a bit before it will start collecting it?

[Cyda]

This mod seriously rocks. I've managed to build my first all-in-one vessel so I can explore the solar system and scan/mine/refuel as I go. It's currently sitting fully fueled on Minmus ready to start exploring the outer reaches.

http://i.imgur.com/vPONK2o.jpg

Thank you for your continued work on this, Majiir.

[Milkshakefiend]

Just a heads up the latest kethane seems to break Universe Replacer mod

I'm seeing this as well - also, it seems the interaction is causing difficulties with the detectors; they activate and animate correctly but they don't actually detect anything. Not just an empty Kethane hex, but the detection seems to be borked. I'm going to experiment and see if I can find anything.

[thufir]

erases all previous kethane data. maps are all blank now, wish it owuldve just updated the info, now i need to waste a few days of idle time mapping

[KhaosCorp]

erases all previous kethane data. maps are all blank now, wish it owuldve just updated the info, now i need to waste a few days of idle time mapping

Day?!? Why would you take days to map anything? Minus launch and travel time every single body in the game can be mapped in a few hours realtime. That's 100% mapped. You need to learn how to scan...There is sooooooo much info on it in this thread on how to scan fast(since it comes up over and over again).

Eve is the biggest body that needs mapped...it can be 100% done in around 30min realtime!!

And this is for 100% filled in maps, that's usually not needed.

Build bigger satellites, use LOTS of scanners, use fast time warp (and NO isa users...x50 is NOT fast..its slow...x1000 kinda fast...x10000 is better =P)

[Pirke]

I'm getting a lot of NullReferenceExceptions in the KSP.log when using Kethane jets, possibly due to Engineer Redux.

The Build and Flight Engineer info stop showing delta-v calculations when I install a kethane jet. TWR is still available, but with a HUGE lag probably due to all the exception handling going on.

Does anobody else see this problem as well using Engineer Redux + Kethane Jet?

EDIT: this is the error in the output_log.txt: NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Kethane.OrthogonalIntake.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

EDIT 2: when modifying the jet part.cfg to use IntakeAir instead of KIntakeAir, the problem disappears. Is this a problem in Kethane Mod, or should the Engineer Redux mod be extended?

Edited August 7, 2013 by Pirke

[SGT_RIZZO300]

One ship, lots of scanners! Also why I said BEEFY...my 'small' scanning sats are usually around 25tons or so. I have launched scanning sats that were over 60tons (single sat).

I suppose launching a small station works too.

[Kimberly]

I just suffer the long scan times, myself. It just feels so ridiculous to use a ship with scanners on every surface; it kills immersion, which is the source of my desire to play at all. That large amounts of scanners are necessary to scan with time warp on should be considered a problem that ought to be fixed.

[Van Disaster]

My current scansats have two detectors, and they manage to map everything before ISA mapsat gets done.

[Geschosskopf]

My current scansats have two detectors, and they manage to map everything before ISA mapsat gets done.

I'd really like to know where you got scanners like that because that sure ain't the case with the default parts.

Because the ISA's beam width is dependent on altitude, you can cover the entire planet from high altitude in just 4-6 orbits usually, and most times this takes no more than 15-20 game hours, provided you have an optimized orbit. OK, so you can't use more than 50x warp with ISA, but even worst case that's only 24 minutes of real time.

The Kethane scanners, OTOH, only read 1 hex wide no matter what altitude you have them at. Thus, the only way to increase the number of hexes scanned per unit of game time is to have the satellite moving as fast as possible, which means a low orbit. And while the big scanner can take up to 100x time warp without any gaps, in most cases the low orbit needed to increase true mapping speed won't let you do more than 50x anyway.

But regardless of that, it appears that every world has the same number of hexes covering it, regardless of the world's size. Thus, you have to do exactly the same amount of work on everything from Kerbin to Gilly, so they all take the same amount of time to scan. And from what I can tell, with 1 big scanner in a perfectly asynchronous polar orbit as low as possible, is 7 game DAYS. At the 50x time warp you often have to do, that's 3.5 real hours, which is ridiculous. If you're orbit's big enough to use 100x warp, that's still 1.25 real hours.

Now sure, if you don't care about the passage of game time, just real time, then you can go out further, crank the warp way up, and eventually shotgun the planet (what with all the skips you'll get) in less real time. But maybe decades have passed in the game by the time you're done. If you've got other ships flying around in your game, if you care about how long your Kerbals are in space, or if you have a challenge time limit, this just ain't an option.

[KhaosCorp]

I'd really like to know where you got scanners like that because that sure ain't the case with the default parts.

Because the ISA's beam width is dependent on altitude, you can cover the entire planet from high altitude in just 4-6 orbits usually, and most times this takes no more than 15-20 game hours, provided you have an optimized orbit. OK, so you can't use more than 50x warp with ISA, but even worst case that's only 24 minutes of real time.

The Kethane scanners, OTOH, only read 1 hex wide no matter what altitude you have them at. Thus, the only way to increase the number of hexes scanned per unit of game time is to have the satellite moving as fast as possible, which means a low orbit. And while the big scanner can take up to 100x time warp without any gaps, in most cases the low orbit needed to increase true mapping speed won't let you do more than 50x anyway.

But regardless of that, it appears that every world has the same number of hexes covering it, regardless of the world's size. Thus, you have to do exactly the same amount of work on everything from Kerbin to Gilly, so they all take the same amount of time to scan. And from what I can tell, with 1 big scanner in a perfectly asynchronous polar orbit as low as possible, is 7 game DAYS. At the 50x time warp you often have to do, that's 3.5 real hours, which is ridiculous. If you're orbit's big enough to use 100x warp, that's still 1.25 real hours.

Now sure, if you don't care about the passage of game time, just real time, then you can go out further, crank the warp way up, and eventually shotgun the planet (what with all the skips you'll get) in less real time. But maybe decades have passed in the game by the time you're done. If you've got other ships flying around in your game, if you care about how long your Kerbals are in space, or if you have a challenge time limit, this just ain't an option.

You are not taking into account that more scanners mean less gaps at higher warp...this is what i meant before when i said 'per pass resolution'.

It is VERY possible to be on x10000 warp and have NO GAPS at all in your scan map as you go, it just takes alot of scanners. If your taking decades to scan a planet in game time your still not using enough scanners.

FAST scanning (real time AND game time) is all about 100% per pass resolution.....

[Geschosskopf]

You are not taking into account that more scanners mean less gaps at higher warp...this is what i meant before when i said 'per pass resolution'.

It is VERY possible to be on x10000 warp and have NO GAPS at all in your scan map as you go, it just takes alot of scanners. If your taking decades to scan a planet in game time your still not using enough scanners.

FAST scanning (real time AND game time) is all about 100% per pass resolution.....

What you say is only true if having multiple scanners increases the width of the scanned path. Have you found a way to do that? If so, then please tell me, because no matter how many scanners I put on a ship, it still only scans 1 hex wide.

Time warp only changes the ratio of gametime to realtime. It does not change the amount of gametime required to complete any given task. If you still only scan 1 hex wide no matter how many scanners you cram onto your probe, then it will still take no less than 7 game days to scan any world, because the governing factor is the speed of the probe over the ground, NOT the time warp factor. The further out from the planet you are, the more game time it takes to scan a planet, because your orbital velocity is that much slower.

If you're out 250km or more, where you can do 1000x or even 10000x time warp, then you are significantly increasing the amount of game time needed to scan the planet, even if the amount of real time is much less due to the higher time warp. If game time matters to you (and there are many reason why it might), then this is a non-starter. Even before you consider the monstrosity the probe must become to cram enough scanners on it to avoid gaps, and all the electricity they need to run simultaneously.

[KhaosCorp]

What you say is only true if having multiple scanners increases the width of the scanned path. Have you found a way to do that? If so, then please tell me, because no matter how many scanners I put on a ship, it still only scans 1 hex wide.

Time warp only changes the ratio of gametime to realtime. It does not change the amount of gametime required to complete any given task. If you still only scan 1 hex wide no matter how many scanners you cram onto your probe, then it will still take no less than 7 game days to scan any world, because the governing factor is the speed of the probe over the ground, NOT the time warp factor. The further out from the planet you are, the more game time it takes to scan a planet, because your orbital velocity is that much slower.

If you're out 250km or more, where you can do 1000x or even 10000x time warp, then you are significantly increasing the amount of game time needed to scan the planet, even if the amount of real time is much less due to the higher time warp. If game time matters to you (and there are many reason why it might), then this is a non-starter. Even before you consider the monstrosity the probe must become to cram enough scanners on it to avoid gaps, and all the electricity they need to run simultaneously.

Ok, your not understanding...it has NOTHING to do with how wide the scan path is...this is NOT isa.....

Having multiple scanners INCREASES THE PER PASS RESOLUTION of a satellite...this means less gaps in the single hex line each time the satellite goes over an area. That leads to complete scans being done in less real time AND GAME TIME.

More scanners and higher time warp leads to faster scanning....I have tested this though many MANY hours of testing and comparing.

Before you reply with how it works 'in theory' please go it test it yourself. I promise you using more scanners leads to faster scan times for every body.

As far as electricity goes that should NEVER be an issue...make your inclination changes at either AN or DN(or close to em depending on the body) and ya get full sunlight your whole orbit.

People need to learn the mechanics at play here instead of insisting kethane scanning is broken.

And people, please stop comparing this to ISA...its not isa, and I for one am very very happy its not.

Edited August 7, 2013 by KhaosCorp

[Majiir]

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