Firespitter propeller plane and helicopter parts v7.1 (May 5th) for KSP 1.0

[KhaosCorp]

That's not how airbrakes work though bud, they are not control surfaces nor meant to be. A control surface is shaped and mounted in a way that redirects airflow. An airbrake is there simply to create drag, not redirect anything. These 2 parts are nothing alike, and should operate nothing alike.

Also, just a little side thought...

Mythbusters showed that there is holes in Newtons 3rd law, and since MIT has published a report confirming as much. Interesting stuff (not that it has much bearing here)

[rhoark]

A flat surface angled at 45 degrees doesn't care what you call it. The difference is in where its placed and when its deployed.

[KhaosCorp]

A flat surface angled at 45 degrees doesn't care what you call it. The difference is in where its placed and when its deployed.

control surfaces are not flat. they are typicaly arched or wing-shaped, This is how they are able to redirect the flow of air. An airbrake IS flat, this is why it does not redirect the flow of air (much that is) but just creates drag....

basically what your saying:

"why cant I eat soup with this fork as well as I can with a spoon...im holding it the same way"

airbrakes don't behave like control surface, not in real life, not in KSP. They are 2 different things.

[rhoark]

The drag is proportional to the air deflection. It can't do one without the other, regardless of the surface shape. Flat may not be optimal, but it works. (And airbrakes can certainly be curved, in particular split-tail style.) Bottom line is an airbrake will affect attitude unless cancelled by a symmetrically placed partner. The firespitter airbrakes affect attitude, but not in the right way.

[Snjo]

The often quoted line about how wings only create lift due to the shape is incomplete. It contributes to the lift for sure, but the angle of attack of the surface is just as important. That's why you can fly upside down with a shaped wing, or with a totally flat wing. It's a lot less efficient though.

Point being, I agree that the air brakes should realistically create a lift effect in the appropriate direction. However, doing so with the existing lift code might be kind of weird and uncontrollable. I've been thinking of creating some alternate control surface code to handle stuff better, especially the planetary kraken that messes up and flaps the control surfaces at times lately. Problem is, I have tried creating flight logic in a separate Unity project before, and know how weird it can get. I at one point got shot out to 40km in a matter of 30 seconds, and started getting hilarious floating point errors on the geomtery

I would have to replicate either the control surface code, minus the control input bit, from Squad, or look into some of the FAR stuff. But first I'm going to mess with other stuff, so no promises.

[Snjo]

Ran into a slight bug last night.

The electric powered helicopter main rotor spins in the retracted position only. Deploy them and the engine shuts down and will remain off until they are retracted again. I tried setting the deployed and retract positions in the building cycle, but the same results. Sounds like the activate/toggle and retract/deploy logic check values just need to be adjusted.

I tested it here without being able to replicate it, but I've done some bug fixes to the plugin. Try the pre-release and see if that makes a difference.

[Hellbrand]

Okay I tried it with Ferrams Aerospace... and none of the control surfaces actually seem to work... Am I supposed to attach my own control surfaces?

[BubbaWilkins]

I tested it here without being able to replicate it, but I've done some bug fixes to the plugin. Try the pre-release and see if that makes a difference.

Applied patch, issue appears resolved. Thanks for the help! Not sure what caused it, but it works correctly now.

[DreidenKisada]

Are there any example craft that use your VTOL engines? I can't tell what I'm doing wrong, but any time I try to use them it's like watching my plane try out for Circle de Soleil. It just flips around backwards or forwards like it gets a prize for most flips done by an airplane that is not supposed to flip or something.

[cesarcurado]

Love this mod

One question: should this work with pWings?

IMO, this mod, B9 aerospace pack and pWings are best part mods currently made.

[derbal]

In the action groups, the propellers have a 'toggle Reverse' action, but it would be very very helpful to have explicit 'Normal Thrust' and 'Reverse Thrust' actions. Toggle can get messed up when you have multiple engines toggling in different ways in different actions.

[Snjo]

Good point! I'll add that.

[Snjo]

Someone suggested edit options for the VTOL engines in the hangar, so that's now a thing.

I'll be updating the guide about it later, when I know it's actually working and understandable.

I updated the pre-release with the following plugin fixes:

-VTOL action editor options

-fixed FSanimateGeneric always animating at launch

-Added static normal/reverse actions to the engine thrust reversers

[andrew32198]

Unfortunately I have a Mac :/ anyway the sound for any of the parts doesnt work. I am putting the sound folders in the sound folders. Any fix on this coming soon, by the way the sound hasn't worked since this mod was released. Great mod though. Please fix this soon

[zack2014]

Just stick everything in the GameData folder. I'm also on a mac, and sounds work great with the new folder structure.

[Pixel of Life]

Ran into a slight bug last night.

The electric powered helicopter main rotor spins in the retracted position only. Deploy them and the engine shuts down and will remain off until they are retracted again. I tried setting the deployed and retract positions in the building cycle, but the same results. Sounds like the activate/toggle and retract/deploy logic check values just need to be adjusted.

I am having this exact same problem.

[Snjo]

I am having this exact same problem.

Could you send me the craft file, so I can test this?

Also, are you using the version from spaceport, or a pre-release version?

[Pixel of Life]

Could you send me the craft file, so I can test this?

Also, are you using the version from spaceport, or a pre-release version?

Couldn't figure out how to attach files, so here's a pastebin link: http://pastebin.com/U7wUgsF3

Copy that to notepad, save as Electric Chopper.craft and move to the SPH folder. It should be all stock with Firespitter.

IIRC I downloaded the mod from spaceport.

[Snjo]

Couldn't figure out how to attach files, so here's a pastebin link: http://pastebin.com/U7wUgsF3

Copy that to notepad, save as Electric Chopper.craft and move to the SPH folder. It should be all stock with Firespitter.

IIRC I downloaded the mod from spaceport.

I tested your craft file, and it works fine in the upcoming version, which I'll try to get out as a bug fix later today.

You can get it from the pre-release file right now.

[KOCOUR]

Hey man, i installed your mod in 0.2.2 on PC and sound doesnt work. i tried to put it to both normal sound folder and the sound folder in gamedata folder, then to one of them and then only to second one, but nothing helps.

[Snjo]

To work, the sounds must be in exactly the right place, which they will be if you unzipped the files in the zip directly into the KSP folder:

[Snjo]

New version!

Download

v5.2

Plugin fun:

- Trim adjustment gadget. Create trim presets in the hangar action editor, or edit trim easily while flying.

- Move to water at launch module. Slap this on, and you’ll start out in the water. Follow on-screen prompt if you use wings to avoid lockup.

- VTOL action editor options. Set rotation increments and deployed angles in the hangar action editor.

- Added static normal/reverse actions to the engine thrust reversers

Bug Fixes:

- Fixed FSanimateGeneric always animating at launch

- Electric rotors would spin in retracted state instead of deployed

- Electric rotors would try to reach parked rotation at odd times.

[BlueSubstance]

Thank you Snjo! You're making great stuff!

[Snjo]

New stuff explained (from the guide)

Trim adjustment tool

Attach the small Trim adjustemt tool to your craft to quickly change trim settings to a preset, or do small controlled adjustments. Trimming normally with alt + arrow keys can be dangerous at launch, but pressing a button is so easy, even your mother could do it!

Clicking on the Trim tool in the action editor brings up three separate windows, pitch, roll, and yaw.

You can add up to three trim presets that will be saved to the vessel, or any number of presets during flight.

Buttons

[ + ] Adds one step to the active trim on the craft. (Up for pitch, Right for roll/Yaw)

[ - ] Subtracts one step to the active trim on the craft. (Down for pitch, Left for roll/Yaw)

[Add] Adds one preset line

[Del] Removes one preset line (You can have no presets if you wish, but one is always added on Load)

Show on Launch [Y/N] Toggles whether this popup box will appear when the craft is launched/loaded

Presets

Each line has an editable text field, and a button to use the trim value written in that field.

Values are in percent of total trim, so -23.5 will give 23.5% of total possible steering input.

Be careful to click outside the text field after you’ve edited it, as it will keep taking inputs instead of letting you steer if you don’t.

Tips

If you find a good pitch trim setting for takeoff, add the action “Use Pitch Preset 1†to the Stage Action Group, to apply that trim value as soon as you start your engines.

If you don’t use the Abort Action Group for anything else, you can add the actions for toggling the popup windows to that. Then you can just press Backspace to show or hide all or some of the windows.

The roll is usually way overpowered in planes when using the keyboard. Add the Action “â€ÂRoll trim +1 step†to for example action group 8, and -1 roll to 9, to make very gentle turns by pressing these buttons a few times.

Water Launch System

By adding the water launch system to your craft, you will automatically be moved to the water near the Space Center when you launch. It will take a second for the craft to drop down and settle in the water.

You will see an on-screen prompt to Quickload (press f5), and Quick Load (hold f9) to get all parts working properly. This should only be needed on craft with wings, since they don’t get properly activated after the move.

Please note that you have to be moving no faster than 0.2 m/s in order to quick save your game.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Snjo

[MR4Y]

Issue with the pontoons. They will just crumble and not hold it's shape together, making impossible to use them.