(0.23) Wayland Corp. Development and released download Thread (new parts)

[Logan.Darklighter]

Indeed. I noticed the glidepath was pretty incredible. But that was with an EMPTY ship.

Carrying the APC? That glidepath will be MUCH more like a brick. Heh.

[Devo]

Indeed. I noticed the glidepath was pretty incredible. But that was with an EMPTY ship.

Carrying the APC? That glidepath will be MUCH more like a brick. Heh.

It can be a bit twitchy on turns.. the besty way I found..

1. Put a docking node on top of the ship, facing up

2. Put a demv MK5 or RAT upsidown on that node.

3. grab the node, click angle snap and put it inside the roof off the cargo bay,

its pretty easy to get dead centre then, very good balance. I got 2 x DEMVmk5 in there no sweat, nose to bum.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Incidentally Devo? One thing I tried doing was placing one of the Pegasus VTOL engines on the front underside of the Dropship below the cockpit. Unfortunately it doesn't work because it's using that older style of engine like the Eagle is.

But - I wonder if maybe you might be able to make one of those that uses the regular resource system as an option? because those VTOL engines are pretty unobtrusive. They almost look more like RCS thrusters. So it might make things a little easier? Just a thought.

[Devo]

Incidentally Devo? One thing I tried doing was placing one of the Pegasus VTOL engines on the front underside of the Dropship below the cockpit. Unfortunately it doesn't work because it's using that older style of engine like the Eagle is.

But - I wonder if maybe you might be able to make one of those that uses the regular resource system as an option? because those VTOL engines are pretty unobtrusive. They almost look more like RCS thrusters. So it might make things a little easier? Just a thought.

yeah i thought about other engines, but the ship never had any frontal engines, and with hydrotech, the thing doesnt even need asas.. its brilliant

[COL.Neville]

you can always try turning the drag up on the tail pieces also.

[Logan.Darklighter]

you can always try turning the drag up on the tail pieces also.

Possible. But what about doing that to the landing gear instead? You want to have that out for landings anyway. And they're HUGE. They really could be producing some drag themselves.

[WCOLE360]

Retried the way devo said and it works. devo: [high number of wins] wcole: [low number, possibly negative number of wins]

[Devo]

Possible. But what about doing that to the landing gear instead? You want to have that out for landings anyway. And they're HUGE. They really could be producing some drag themselves.

deploying the legs creates a large amount of drag...

I had to plan this out a fair bit, part of the fun was having no real technical documentation onhow to assemble it, so I thought of it as a lego kit I suppose.

All wing surfaces create drag and lift.. there are plenty of colliders on this to affect aerodynamics..

It's built with nodes in places for reason.. The front section with the lights (that dont work yet, but will) pushes against the box containing the front legs, so it keeps

compression there in high speed entry, literally all parts are designed to push against eachother when force is applied, so you can run this at 2x launch speed no

sweat.

The air intakes you see, are actually air intakes.. the engines are going to have a jet alternative, so i planned ahead, sothe twin intake is intergrated. The airbrakes that raise when

you deploy the wings do block the air intake, this is just a conceptual movie design flaw... but they suck in enough air to work still so its not that bad. Jet engine version coming, with emissives.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Dang it! I didn't notice my link to the Twitch video was messed up. It's fixed now.

[Devo]

Dang it! I didn't notice my link to the Twitch video was messed up. It's fixed now.

wow!! that landing on the eagle was outstanding! I might give the sulaco a rest for today and get more munbase alpha done, I think if anyone could navigate a landing on it you could, jesus...

Do you see what I mean about how stable the hydrotech plugin is too? I love the way it doesn wobble the ship and fins, makes for very very smooth entry and re-entry.

I know the dropship animations lag a bit, there is 160 frames in each one, I might cut them all down to 60 and re-time them to stretch them out.

[Logan.Darklighter]

wow!! that landing on the eagle was outstanding! I might give the sulaco a rest for today and get more munbase alpha done, I think if anyone could navigate a landing on it you could, jesus...

Hey man, thanks!

As for landing on one of those pads on the Mun? Well it actually would be easier. The Mun is much more the Eagle's natural environment than Kerbin. It doesn't take as much power to hover. RCS translation is more effective. Flying precisely is just easier overall.

Do you see what I mean about how stable the hydrotech plugin is too? I love the way it doesn't wobble the ship and fins, makes for very very smooth entry and re-entry.

It does at that. But unless I'm missing how to make it work (which is possible. I haven't yet explored every aspect) aside from the "Precision" setting, it wants to lock you into a specific direction. You can translate with a high degree of precision, but you can't do "helicopter" mode flying with it. That's why I still think MechJeb and HydroJeb are both useful for different tasks.

I know the dropship animations lag a bit, there is 160 frames in each one, I might cut them all down to 60 and re-time them to stretch them out.

Really? Hadn't noticed any lag per-se. But I do think that speeding up the animations might make it closer to the way the movie portrayed things. IIRC the flip-out wings movement was about 1-2 seconds tops. And the whole sequence of the dropship landing, dropping the APC and lifting off again was just DAMN beautiful.

And remember - none of that was CGI! That whole movie was either puppets, models and blue-screen, man-in-suit or practical effects! That bit with the Dropship and the APC? That was done with wires! There's a great documentary I just saw on Youtube (while I was looking for other Aliens references) that show how they did all of it. (warning! Over 3 hours long! )

[UltraVires]

Nice Videos Logan... your starting to make me look bad buddy... Gonna have to pull a Chuck Yeager to get back in the lead... Let's see where that old demon lives.

I was just watching the movie again last night, and I found this... Right there on the bottom of the nose section, Devo, could this be a forward Vtol for the Dropship??? I have no idea what else it could be, it's certainly not an intake, or bomb bay or something... It would kinda make sense, this one just holds the nose up, while the rear Vtol's do the actual work of lifting and maneuvering... Just kinda thinking out loud here, but you could make a little surface attachable Vtol (like the one's on the Peggy) and stick that sucker on there... It might do the trick and let us get away without using HydroJEb etc. What do you think?

Also it might be great if we had some just plain Dropship fuselage parts and adapters, I think Logan was onto something when he mentioned using these parts with other KSP stuff, there are all kinds of possibilities. And these parts look as good as stock parts, you really have done a great job Devo.

Just to explain about the plugin stuff, my computer was really good about 2 years ago, now it's just kinda mid grade... so if I run KSP with anymore than about 4 or 5 plugins it just gets really laggy and slow. I'm getting some upgrades soon, but for the other people out there who don't have great systems and still want to play KSP, I feel it would be great if we could not use any plugins etc. I know that may not be possible, but it would be ideal. I'll shut up now, and go back to flying.

Edited May 12, 2013 by UltraVires

[Waste Me]

Newbie no deck, tolerance please.

Downloaded and installed, but I'm having problems.

I can not control engine out put and the main engine plumes are at 90 degrees to the engines, they are coming out the top!

Ok, sarcastic answers and insulting replies welcome as long as they are constructive!

If you require further information please ask.

[Yoloswaggins]

Wow, that dropship looks amazing, can't wait to give it a go.

If it helps I dug out my old Colonial Marines Handbook and did some checking and that port below the nose is in fact the vertical engine exhaust, so she does in fact have a lift nozzle placed forward of the cargo bay.

Also those ramps on front of the main engine intakes aren't airbrakes and don't articulate. They are just to direct airflow into the Republic-Dynamics main engines, the airbrakes are mounted in the tail section and deploy horizontally.

Marked as number 44 in the image.

Hope that helps you out somewhat. If you want any other technical details give me a yell. I'm really looking forward to having a go with this baby.

[UltraVires]

@Waste Me

Me... use Sarcasm... Never!

we'll need to know which ship you are trying to fly, and what exactly your having trouble with. I'm guessing English is not your first language, that's ok just take your time and explain. Use google translate if you have to, it works pretty well.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Indeed. Which spaceship are you attempting to fly or assemble? Need to know which one we're working with here before we can even guess what the problem is. Happy to help once we figure it out!

[Logan.Darklighter]

Nice Videos Logan... your starting to make me look bad buddy... Gonna have to pull a Chuck Yeager to get back in the lead... Let's see where that old demon lives.

Heh. Got a stick of Beeman's?

I was just watching the movie again last night, and I found this... Right there on the bottom of the nose section, Devo, could this be a forward Vtol for the Dropship??? I have no idea what else it could be, it's certainly not an intake, or bomb bay or something... It would kinda make sense, this one just holds the nose up, while the rear Vtol's do the actual work of lifting and maneuvering... Just kinda thinking out loud here, but you could make a little surface attachable Vtol (like the one's on the Peggy) and stick that sucker on there... It might do the trick and let us get away without using HydroJEb etc. What do you think?

*Peers closely* My goodness, that DOES look like a VTOL vent doesn't it? And it wouldn't make sense for it to be an air intake because it's already GOT those on the top! I'd put my vote in for Vire's suggestion big time!

( EDIT: SCOOPED By Yolo! Note to self: Learn to read thread thoroughly before posting, Logan! LOL )

Another suggestion - you -could- make a variant of the Dropship that uses both rockets and jets for propulsion. I think it's reasonable to assume that the main engines in the back above the tail remain rockets. But I'm thinking that based on the sounds it makes in the atmosphere of LV-426 in the movie that the other engines are actually jet turbines. At least on the variant we see in the movie. However - I think it's also reasonable to suggest that both purely rocket driven AND jet-driven VTOL designs of the dropship exist in the Aliens universe. Because some planets will have atmospheres you can use, and some won't. Who knows? Maybe the Sulaco had more than just the two dropships? But that the others were kitted more for vacuum worlds? The Sulaco certainly looked big enough for some spare dropships!

Also it might be great if we had some just plain Dropship fuselage parts and adapters, I think Logan was onto something when he mentioned using these parts with other KSP stuff, there are all kinds of possibilities. And these parts look as good as stock parts, you really have done a great job Devo.

Indeed - some fantastic work there Devo! Oh! Hey! Further brainstorm! Speaking of that suggestion of making a version of the dropship that skinned in white or off-white/grey? What if the vacuum kitted dropship was that color and the jet-VTOL was the army green one? Just thinking out-loud here. Which would make more sense?

Edited May 12, 2013 by Logan.Darklighter

[UltraVires]

Wow, that dropship looks amazing, can't wait to give it a go.

If it helps I dug out my old Colonial Marines Handbook and did some checking and that port below the nose is in fact the vertical engine exhaust, so she does in fact have a lift nozzle placed forward of the cargo bay.

Also those ramps on front of the main engine intakes aren't airbrakes and don't articulate. They are just to direct airflow into the Republic-Dynamics main engines, the airbrakes are mounted in the tail section and deploy horizontally.

Marked as number 44 in the image.

Hope that helps you out somewhat. If you want any other technical details give me a yell. I'm really looking forward to having a go with this baby.

YEAH BABY! We're in business now! Thanks for sharing Yolo! I think Devo might want a copy of those blueprints, as he has always wanted to make the model as accurate as possible, He's cool that way Come to think of it, I'd like a copy myself, just to have (nerd tendencies kicking in, already have Sulaco blueprints...)

Great idea about the color scheme Logan, sounds good, and actually makes sense. (you couldn't use jets on planets with no atmosphere, or no O2.) Wish I'd thought of it. lol

I think with just a bit more tweaking, the Cheyenne will be ready faster than I thought. APC and Sulaco, here we come!

I also just wanted to point out, that I have not noticed any lag when using the wing animations either, they work smoothly for me.

Edited May 12, 2013 by UltraVires

[Yoloswaggins]

No worries Logan, my first post so it was delayed for moderation. Probably wasn't even there when you posted your reply

"Another suggestion - you -could- make a variant of the Dropship that uses both rockets and jets for propulsion. I think it's reasonable to assume that the main engines in the back above the tail remain rockets. But I'm thinking that based on the sounds it makes in the atmosphere of LV-426 in the movie that the other engines are actually jet turbines. At least on the variant we see in the movie. "

?

The info I have states that the UD-4 has two types of powerplant. The two forward ones mounted behind those big rectangle intakes are Republic Dynamics TF-900 variable-cycle turbines, producing 310kN of static thrust. At sub-sonic speeds they operate as turbo-fans and at supersonic speeds the engines operate as supercruise capable turbojets.

The other set of engines mounted in the tail section are TF-220/A-14 ram rockets. They can operate as ram/scram-jets or as ram rockets by moving the inlet spike to change the airflow volume passing through the engine or can push the spike fully forward to block the combustion chamber off for trans-atmospheric flight.

Hope that helps.

[Bigant]

woo i can add something to this amazing post other than my inability to fly the eagle the right way up i am a pretty big fan of making large scale models *my latest is a 1/6 scale leman russ tank from warhammer* and well i go on various model making websites and.. http://alienscollection.com/dropship/dropshipprogress/ pretty much every part of the dropship in pretty good detail also heres some of the concept art for the thing http://mekapedia.blogspot.com.au/2010/12/ron-cobb-alien-dropship.html the almost made it to screen apc http://alienscollection.com/images/apcconceptart1.jpg http://alienscollection.com/images/apcconceptart2.jpg

and... some of the screen prop http://alienscollection.com/burnsdropship1small.jpg http://alienscollection.com/burnsdropship2small.jpg its something im planning on a 3-4 foot long model of so i have many pictures of it hope they help a little. oh one last thing.. heres some shots of the Sulaco http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=6016

[Bigant]

sorry for the wall of txt. posting on the interwebs isnt my thing. one more link though might be.. intrested in

http://aliens.humlak.cz/aliens/aliens_papirove_modely/aliens_models/lv426/blueprints/dropcru.jpg

[Logan.Darklighter]

Great Googly Moogly! Those are awesome, Bigant! I can't help but think those will be a great help!

As to why the concept art of the Cheyanne and the APC didn't quite make it as you see them there to the big screen? Check out the link to that "Making of Aliens" on youtube that I posted above. They actually explained why there were differences in the designs and it had to do with the fact that they had to build the FULL SIZE PROPS of those things either on stage (the Dropship) or make an existing vehicle look like what they wanted - or close to it (the APC).

In the case of the Dropship, the set prop was made out of a lot of scrounged military bits of junk that they acquired. The fact that the dropship cockpit looks like a helicopter cockpit? NOT a coincidence! They USED and modified a heli cockpit for their use!

As for the APC - you know what they got that from? An aircraft tug from an airport! The thing was designed to tow Boeing 747s around! CRAZY! It already had the 6 foot high wheels so it was almost perfect. Some of the details on the concept art couldn't be made to work with it though, which is why it looked different. Like the forward facing guns etc. So the design of the art and models (there were 1/4 scale and 1/8th scale remote controlled versions of the APC) were changed to match the set prop that the actors worked with. And many of the shots of the APC driving around were full scale of the real prop driving.

These days 90% of that would be someone telling the actors "Okay - react as if you're about to jump into this APC or dropship which we'll put in later with CGI." (Lucas - I'm looking at YOU...)

The actors have commented on the fact that it makes their work a LOT easier for them to get into character with real stuff to react to. And the props on Aliens were about as solid as it gets! LOL

[Logan.Darklighter]

No worries Logan, my first post so it was delayed for moderation. Probably wasn't even there when you posted your reply

Aha... that explains that. I thought it was just my slow typing and wall-of-text tendencies. Also explains why THIS post I'm responding to also came in "late". I think you're still being moderated temporarily. That'll go away soon enough though. No worries!

The info I have states that the UD-4 has two types of powerplant. The two forward ones mounted behind those big rectangle intakes are Republic Dynamics TF-900 variable-cycle turbines, producing 310kN of static thrust. At sub-sonic speeds they operate as turbo-fans and at supersonic speeds the engines operate as supercruise capable turbojets.

I assume that the above powerplant notes are in regard to the VTOL engines?

The other set of engines mounted in the tail section are TF-220/A-14 ram rockets. They can operate as ram/scram-jets or as ram rockets by moving the inlet spike to change the airflow volume passing through the engine or can push the spike fully forward to block the combustion chamber off for trans-atmospheric flight.

Hope that helps.

Indeed it does! That's fascinating! I bet it'll help Devo even more though!

Random thoughts - Assuming that at least one version of the Cheyanne that Devo builds is based off of some form of Jet for the VTOLs (not guaranteed, and I can't speak for him, but let's just do this for the sake of a hypothetical...) then I am wondering now about what kind of engines we'd need to use in KSP to most closely model this stuff.

The back engines seem to be described more by Aerospikes in KSP. But those can't be reconfigured like the above. Gonna have to stick with Rockets or Aerospikes. Kinda depends on what's most efficient. Since the VTOLs on the rear can be swiveled, I'm wondering if aerospikes would make more sense, since you can get up to altitude where the aerospikes would be more efficient with the VTOLs.

As for the VTOLs - it's looking more and more like an accurate model of the Cheyenne UD-4 from the movie would be some form of Jet engine. Since they have to function up to high altitude to help the aerospikes to get into orbit, I'd lobby for the high altitude Turbo-Jets myself. And model in actual jet intakes up in the front part of the ship.

Though I STILL think that a version of the Cheyanne that uses all rockets for vacuum operations makes too much sense to throw away.

Come to think of it - what does the designation "UD" stand for? I'm just guessing (no look-up here) that it's likely "Utility Dropship" or something similar.

Maybe the Rocket version would be designated "UDV" for "Utility Dropship Vacuum"?

[Logan.Darklighter]

I did some more work with the dropship. Remembering that I still had a copy of the Proposed Eagle VTOL engines that use the resource system, I copied one over to the main parts folder and added it to the dropship (conveniently there's a little raised circle on the model right where the vent should be).

Unfortunately... It's a little TOO powerful... Aiiiieee!!!!

"Houston, we have a problem. I've fallen and I can't get up! Over!"

So I balanced it out with another one under the tail just as a "proof of concept". ( I may try and edit a version of the engine later to have enough thrust to match that of the rear VTOLs so I don't have to have the rear Eagle engine.

This engine variant flies... well... A lot like an Eagle actually! LOL...

I was even able to use that "KEEP VERT" trick to circularize the orbit.

(Bonus pic from an earlier flight) Here's Jeb being all bad-ass. Aw yeah...

[UltraVires]

HAHA! I knew my Engines would come in handy one day!