M5000's Interstellar Drive Concept

[M5000]

So, being a fairly big sci-fi fan, I love my interstellar drives. Let's talk about those. Actually, I'd like to explain in particular one special type of drive that I've kinda conceptualized as a staple in my own sci-fi universe, and I want to know what you guys think of it. It may kinda already exist, but then again it may not. I don't know all the interstellar methods ever proposed. But here's mine.

If you don't like sci-fi, now's the time to get out.

The drive itself is a drive based on energy/matter conversion and that F=ma. I call it the "Instantaneous Point-Condensation Jump Drive Array" but Jayda drive sounds cooler. Another name for it may be "Quantum Phase Shift Mass Acceleration/Deceleration Drive". These both generally describe what it does.

The drive works by taking the ship and essentially reducing all of its mass into an energous point in space. The energy is encoded with all the mass and energy for the entire vessel, in one single point in space. The drive then sets a frequency for the energy to oscillate at, so that it becomes very unstable and will collapse its energy form back into mass in a short period of time. The ship also, at this exact point in time, annihilates a small amount of fuel to impart a force upon the currently near-massless point in space. This will accelerate the point to a massive speed, as we all know from quantum physics that energy does have SOME mass, albeit tiny. This is where the resonance-stability breakdown frequency comes into play. Each distance for each amount of mass has a specific breakdown frequency. After a short and period of travel, the energous point breaks down and unfolds into its original massive form. Here's the basic layout of a jump between two points:

>Set coordinates for desired destination

>Determine exact distance to desired destination

>Obtain exact starting mass of vehicle

>Determine how much fuel will need to be annihilated to impart the correct amount of force to the condensed form

>Obtain exact ending mass of vehicle after some fuel is annihilated

>Determine the resonance stability breakdown frequency of the jump

>Annihilate some fuel to impart a force while at the same time, doing the following:

>Set up a resonance cascade to create oscillations in energy

>The cascade will automatically convert surrounding mass into energy and condense it to a single point (good idea to use this in a vacuum, by the way)

>Point will be accelerated to its destination

>Resonant frequency of energous point will break down and unfold the structure back into its original form

>Verify the jump was successful

Foreseeable problems:

-The jump may be off by several kilometers, due to the limitations of the precision of the measurement devices and propulsion methods.

-Drive would be heavy and ungainly, large ships only.

-Expensive.

-Probably a bit risky, since a resonance cascade was in fact exactly what caused the Black Mesa incident.

-People unlikely to get on board (no pun intended) as there would be a popular, yet untrue, belief that a quantum phase change would, in fact, wipe out their current stream of consciousness.

-Unknown relativistic effects. Speed is far faster than light, nearing instantaneous. May pretty much mess up all of space time...

So, is that not the coolest thing in the world?

Sorry, I'm stupid lol..

[Stochasty]

I want to know what you guys think of it.

I'd be happy to critique this, but - given that I am a practicing physicist - before I do so I'd like to ask what kind of critique you want. Are you asking what we think about this from an actual science perspective, or just from the perspective of whether it would make good science fiction?

[Holo]

Not even energy can go faster than light. Since you're hugely lowering the mass of the spaceship, you could probably do a low-energy Alcubierre drive, though.

[Cryocasm]

The real question is, how much energy is consumed in the condensing to the proposed infinitesimally small size before the acceleration phase, and then later on how is the mass brought to a relatively close to 0 velocity, considering that right now you're launching something tiny at 80% of c into space, and later it turns massive again, this merely ups your Delta-V and T:W Ratio, but it describes no decelerating system. I don't mean to point out tons of flaws, but these are the most eye-piercing to me.

[Kryten]

If you convert energy into mass, half of it will be antiparticles and half it normal particles due to something called baryon number conservation. So your ship will convert itself to energy again shortly afterwards, in a rather less controlled manner.

[ROFLCopter64bit]

Maybe you could call it the Quantum Slipstream drive?NO! That's my name now!

Here are the blueprints for it:

Edited April 20, 2013 by ROFLCopter64bit

[Holo]

If you convert energy into mass, half of it will be antiparticles and half it normal particles due to something called baryon number conservation. So your ship will convert itself to energy again shortly afterwards, in a rather less controlled manner.

If you turn your positive baryon number ship into energy, won't it convert back into normal matter? Otherwise you've lost some baryon numbers.

[Rune]

It' probably beyond my physics, but from a sci-fi "I don't care how it's done" point of view, it sounds like a cool way to hit 99+% of c in near-instantaneous fashion (Einstein's limits will still apply, since you say it still has some mass) and make the trip, form the perspective of the travellers, in zero elapsed time.

[Stochasty]

If you turn your positive baryon number ship into energy, won't it convert back into normal matter? Otherwise you've lost some baryon numbers.

How exactly do you plan on turning it into energy in the first place? Or, for that matter, what does "turn it into energy" even mean in this context? That's the real sticking point here.

Barring unknown physics, there are only a few forms that matter can take, and "energy" is not one of them. High energy photons is one possibility, but then you have to worry about Baryon number conservation and keeping your high energy photons from scattering all over the place (and somehow reconstituting them into the right kind of matter at the right place). Solving the Baryon number problem by building your ship half out of antimatter probably isn't a good idea (although it would make converting the matter into high energy photons quite easy).

[Holo]

How exactly do you plan on turning it into energy in the first place? Or, for that matter, what does "turn it into energy" even mean in this context? That's the real sticking point here.

Barring unknown physics, there are only a few forms that matter can take, and "energy" is not one of them. High energy photons is one possibility, but then you have to worry about Baryon number conservation and keeping your high energy photons from scattering all over the place (and somehow reconstituting them into the right kind of matter at the right place). Solving the Baryon number problem by building your ship half out of antimatter probably isn't a good idea (although it would make converting the matter into high energy photons quite easy).

Didn't you read? A resonance cascade is used to transform it into energy.

[Stochasty]

Didn't you read? A resonance cascade is used to transform it into energy.

I read.

Are we assessing this based on real physics, or are we just throwing around sciency sounding mumbo jumbo? If you want the latter then I counter your resonance cascade with a quantal phlebotinum oscillirotor powering my Transylvanian trans-Planckiest translatifier (with built in automatic polarity reversal). However, given the fact that we were talking about Baryon number conservation, I rather assumed that, for the moment at least, we cared about real, actual physics.

[M5000]

I read.

Are we assessing this based on real physics, or are we just throwing around sciency sounding mumbo jumbo? If you want the latter then I counter your resonance cascade with a quantal phlebotinum oscillirotor powering my Transylvanian trans-Planckiest translatifier (with built in automatic polarity reversal). However, given the fact that we were talking about Baryon number conservation, I rather assumed that, for the moment at least, we cared about real, actual physics.

Well the tag does say "Sci-Fi Theory"

Keyword: Fiction.

I don't know, I just like talking about interstellar drives.

Let's just say this: The proposed method I put up, I think, could only work in a String-Theory based universe, as that's what it relies on. Changing the resonant frequency of these subatomic strings, then allowing them to quickly break down..

Also, I imagine deceleration could be done in the same way that acceleration happened, except it would be a bit more complex. You would have to have the ship become matter for a split second, annihilate the fuel, convert to the tiny energous point again as the fuel is annihilated, and allow that force to cancel out the force that sent you going, at this point it's safe to permanently materialize.

[Rune]

Well the tag does say "Sci-Fi Theory"

Keyword: Fiction.

I don't know, I just like talking about interstellar drives.

Let's just say this: The proposed method I put up, I think, could only work in a String-Theory based universe, as that's what it relies on. Changing the resonant frequency of these subatomic strings, then allowing them to quickly break down..

Also, I imagine deceleration could be done in the same way that acceleration happened, except it would be a bit more complex. You would have to have the ship become matter for a split second, annihilate the fuel, convert to the tiny energous point again as the fuel is annihilated, and allow that force to cancel out the force that sent you going, at this point it's safe to permanently materialize.

Wait, conservation of momentum? I mean, the instant it regains mass, it should stop considerably on its own. Where do all those G's go, in that case? I think you just torpedoe'd your own design, unless you assume some fancy inertial dampeners, which would make it redundant.

[Holo]

I picture the ball of energy as a very hot black hole. The passengers are in the event horizon (holographic universe theory style).

[M5000]

The passengers are in the event horizon (holographic universe theory style).

Someone's got it.

[Kryten]

Does the drive also take advantage of the cubic nature of time?

[Stochasty]

I picture the ball of energy as a very hot black hole. The passengers are in the event horizon (holographic universe theory style).

Someone's got it.

Okay. So, now, where does the mass go? When matter collapses into a black hole, it doesn't suddenly lose mass. Also, black holes with masses equivalent to that of starships (say on the order of 10k metric tons for an aircraft-carrier sized ship up to a few million or so for something bigger) will be short-lived. The bigger the ship, the longer the black hole will last, so in this case bigger is better - but, that defeats the idea of somehow reducing the overall mass of the ship by turning it into energy.

And, once again, I'm forced to ask the question "what do you mean by energy." You want the passengers to live "trapped on the horizon" - but, that doesn't work. They'd fall in, and become part of the singularity. If you mean that you want their information to be preserved by the surface of the event horizon to be reconstituted later, that might work - but it doesn't solve the mass issue. Something that might handle the problem of "where does the mass go" while at the same time preserving the information is to have the passengers converted into photons trapped in the photon sphere of the black hole - this also solves that pesky issue of conservation of momentum.

I guess my issue here is that you are both too specific and too non-specific. By too specific, I mean that you're going into too much detail regarding future inventions, and by too non-specific I mean that you aren't going into enough detail regarding the physical basis of these inventions (and making sure they're properly grounded in real physics). You're somewhat caught in a no-mans land where people who know their stuff will look at this and say "nonsense." There are a lot of sci-fi authors who make this same mistake; the unfortunate consequence of this is that it is now very difficult for me to read and enjoy sci-fi. I guess my advice is to not try to go into so much detail regarding your drive - accept that it's fantasy, and use a lot of hand-wavium. The alternative is to sit down with a real physicist (or, better yet, learn physics yourself) and go over your ideas with a fine-toothed comb for feasibility, but this is a lot of work that is likely not going to be central to whatever story you want to tell.

Frankly, this is the whole "soft" versus "hard" sci-fi debate. Soft works because people can use Clarke's Third Law to justify their suspension of disbelief. Hard works by giving the audience as little to disbelieve as possible. Anywhere in between is untenable.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Stochasty

[ROFLCopter64bit]

Can't we just have a fun time sharing IDrives that work with basic physics, and then iron out the very advanced stuff out later? I would like that. Would anyone else like that? If we look at other peoples designs, it can help with coming up with solutions. I like that idea very much.