[0.22] B9 Aerospace Pack / R4.0c / New pods, IVAs, engines, fuselages & structures

[K3-Chris]

Some sneak peaks of new content arriving in version 2.6.

Epic looking stuff, can't wait

Because there is no efficient way to manage large crews in EVA and there is zero fun in being able to carry entire team of your whole space program in one crewtank. Crewtanks are large enough for use in crew ferrying spaceplanes and for other applications like that, and building a passenger jet capable of carrying 100 kerbals is a cheap and pointless exercise.

Crew Manifest makes crew management a lot easier, lets you transfer crew between all your parts without the need for EVA and lets you add and remove kerbals on the pad/runway and latest version removes the need for the part, so it works with your previous launches as well, but yeah there isn't much point to making the parts carry that many kerbals, and frankly it takes 20s to copy the part edit the name and modify the number if you really want to carry that many

[Malv]

1 Thing.

Airbrakes.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS.

The ability to shift a plane's drag model is going to be amazing for many applications.

[AngelLestat]

Bac9: I think you just need more lift, that is quite heavy payload. And keep an eye on CoM, if it's too far in the front you won't be able to lift your nose even if you technically have enough lift.

I will try what you said, but until now i am not finding good results using big wings. But that is not the problem, the payload will be raise in vertical way with rockets. The problem is how not lose control in the launch and re-entry (empty) due to the high speeds.

The game take the 3d structure to calc the drag and the aerodynamics? Or is just the parameters in the cfg file?

Thanks again for the info bac9, now I understand a lot more.

My favorites are the air brake and the lights, the light support structure is perfect to place many air intakes... haha nah joke. I am searching always for reality

k3-chris: and frankly it takes 20s to copy the part edit the name and modify the number if you really want to carry that many

yeah of course, but i just want it to know if there was another background "why" like the air-intake.

Taverius: Yeah a shuttle using those shape looks more feasible, but someone could make it fly the structure that I mention in the picture in some way?

I would love to see other approaches than i never realize.

[Netris]

The game take the 3d structure to calc the drag and the aerodynamics? Or is just the parameters in the cfg file?

The heavier a part is, the more drag it provides. That's all. No fancy calculation. If you want more realism, try Ferram Aerospace Research

[ahappydude]

Warning, big pics incoming :

Trial run with an eva suit

Did you play homeworld much ?^^ These engines reminds me so of that great game cheers

[KOCOUR]

Awesom mod man. realy! But the voblines! Your parts doesnt hold one to other too good. I have to use tons of struts to keep the spacecraft from falling appart.

[electronicfox]

Awesom mod man. realy! But the voblines! Your parts doesnt hold one to other too good. I have to use tons of struts to keep the spacecraft from falling appart.

I think this is more a limitation in KSP/unity rather than a problem with the B9 pack. Take a look at other large parts in other packs (KW pack for example, if I dont strut properly I get all kinds of wobbliness and exploding between large parts).

[jocax188723]

So so awesome...

[pinolallo]

I do found a solution for th HW21 wing warp explosion.

I fixed the problem just commenting out this parameter into the part.cfg

//CoMOffset = -4, 0, 0

After this change the wing just stop to explode after a warp.

Edited May 10, 2013 by pinolallo

[AngelLestat]

Netris: The heavier a part is, the more drag it provides. That's all. No fancy calculation. If you want more realism, try Ferram Aerospace Research

I already did before b9.

The problem with Ferram is that change a lot of parts from the game and a lot of things stop working like they should.

I will install ferram permanent if all the game was made for that. Looks like a good improvment.

But maybe one thing that I notice of Ferram (i am not sure becoz i dint play to much with that) is that you lose control very easy at high speeds, even with simple rockets.

Maybe is my keyboard, i dont have joistick. But that was my fealing..

And sometimes, make thing harder is not equal to real.

Take this for example: http://flyingthingz.com/ You can make almost any shape fly if you attach in the right place some ailerons or use good engines.

Everyone who fly little airplanes will tell you that is a lot more easy in real than in a simulator. Becoz you have the view problem and all the extra senses that you only perceived if you are sit in the plane. The problem there is that mistakes are not allowed xd

Kokour: Your parts doesnt hold one to other too good. I have to use tons of struts to keep the spacecraft from falling appart.

Electronics is right. It happens with all the big things, like Jool 5 mod.

[Netris]

(...)a lot of things stop working like they should.

That's why I rebuild a (two in fact) whole new space shuttles after installing FAR ^^ But Ferram is an ingeneer in aerodynamic so I think what he's done is the most accurate under the games's limitations. And for your control problem, try reducing your velocity in lower atmosphere. You don't need to go over 150m/s under 10km (I'm not sure of this value, MJ does it for me :-D) and try a less steep gravity turn. Puting more weight on top of your rocket seems to help too. I've launched my Falcon 9 almost empty for test flights and sometimes she did some fancy backflips but when I put an actual payload, she flies really nicely.

[AngelLestat]

And i hope than the dev team found a middle ground between what Ferram did and the balance than they are looking for.

More weight at top seems logic in vtol launch. The problem is that you need get more than 150 m/s under 10 km.

My best way to launch things is the radial jet engine launcher (is in one picture) that i use until 17-20km, and i need to get an speed of 400 m/s at least, but that is not the issue.

The issue is the reentry. You go at 1000 m/s when you reach 30 km. Then is kinda boring see your ship spin without control until you reach land or you recover control just 1 km before crash xd

If you say that you have a shuttle with ferram, I bet you use parachutes to gain control in the re-entry.

[camlost]

If you say that you have a shuttle with ferram, I bet you use parachutes to gain control in the re-entry.

You bet wrong. One can just use RCS, a lot of them.

I play with FAR and deadly re-entry. I keep my shuttle nose-up 30 degrees at high atmosphere, like what the space shuttle does

[Devo]

And i hope than the dev team found a middle ground between what Ferram did and the balance than they are looking for.

More weight at top seems logic in vtol launch. The problem is that you need get more than 150 m/s under 10 km.

My best way to launch things is the radial jet engine launcher (is in one picture) that i use until 17-20km, and i need to get an speed of 400 m/s at least, but that is not the issue.

The issue is the reentry. You go at 1000 m/s when you reach 30 km. Then is kinda boring see your ship spin without control until you reach land or you recover control just 1 km before crash xd

If you say that you have a shuttle with ferram, I bet you use parachutes to gain control in the re-entry.

I am creating a ship that needs to drop into orbit faster than that , I found Hydrotechs RCS translator stopped the spin completed, I entered atmosphere at 1000+ and had zero spin.

[Netris]

If you say that you have a shuttle with ferram, I bet you use parachutes to gain control in the re-entry.

Same as Camlost. I'm using FAR + deadly re-entry, all I do during re-entry is pitching my shuttle between 30 and 40° to bleed off the max amount of delta-v without exploding. The only technical restriction is you have to set a periapsis high enough to enter the atmosphere slow enough but not too high otherwise you'll go back to space.

[xeon_1]

I do find a solution for th HW21 wing warp explosion.

I fixed the problem just commenting out this parameter into the part.cfg

//CoMOffset = -4, 0, 0

After this change the wing just stop to explode after a warp.

Thank you for figuring that out.

now i can finaly send my big space planes to space without losing half the ship in orbit.

[bac9]

I do found a solution for th HW21 wing warp explosion.

I fixed the problem just commenting out this parameter into the part.cfg

//CoMOffset = -4, 0, 0

After this change the wing just stop to explode after a warp.

Fundamental cause with improper loading is still there, HW21 and every single other heavy radial-attached part is still being loaded with significant delay causing displacement and potential snapping. And we can easily make it explode in a test even without CoMOffset. But if that change helps you, great, we can include it into the next release. Just don't be surprised if the issue will arise again, it can only be properly fixed by developers, unfortunately.

Edited May 10, 2013 by bac9

[a.g.]

Placing the center of mass at or near the attachment point may be simply improving the capability of the joint to immediately arrest the movement. There are more limitations on torque and angular velocity in the physics engine than on plain linear force, so a shorter lever arm is probably more stable.

[AngelLestat]

devogen, camlost, netris: I am having some advances in my design. Now I guess i fix the problem in the reentry and the launch.

The rentry is with low angle (just becoz I did not reach orbit with this yet XD) and always facing prograde.

With a triangle narrow wing shape plus RCS and mech jeb (I dont know if the mod than devogen said it has a big improvment over control against mechjeb)

I reach 2000 m/s at 100k with empty cargo, To make this design viable I will need reach 2400 m/s at 100k with 10 tons of payload at least.

I want to achieve that without large amount of fuel.

So FAR + deadly re-entry? I will love to see some of your designs.

[Netris]

This is Discoverer on the launchpad. She flew really well during the atmosphere tests. My problem now it to put it in orbit ^^ It's a passenger shuttle for now but once Bac9 add the S2 cargo bay, I'll rethink it to a light payload shuttle.

And this is Freedom. A medium payload shuttle. Flew well during the atmosphere tests, I'm also currently working on getting in in orbit. The configuration of the EFT & SRB is the same as for Discoverer.

[sarbian]

Can you add a picture of the back of the Freedom ? I'd like to see how you put the engine.

[Netris]

I've puted an adapter, cliped a powered hinge from Damned Robotics in it, added a quad coupler and mounted 4 Bearcats from Tyberdine. The 2 exterior engines are the OMS and are lit up to circularize...well, that's the theory. I have to try it out ^^ Still in devellopement, but the basic design won't change much. She's very inspired by the Eagle by WinterOwl ^^

[moxzot]

are those stock engines cause they look a bit different

[AngelLestat]

Nice, they look like a shuttle.

I try that configuration before (without those engines) and i found the big problem of center of gravity and lift.

Is really difficult to balance in all the stages of fuel levels.

You use the Throttle Steering mod to control a little more the direction? I find that plugin very usefull. Is something that ksp need to add in the future.

Also you said that you use deadly re-entry mod, I thought that if you dont use the shield´s mod your ship explode.. How really works?

I will post later my last version, I reach 100k orbit already with extra fuel for a DV of 400 m/s, Now I just need a little extra impulse to carry 10 or 20 tons of payload keeping that extra DV.

It will be hard.

But I did it with the fancy design

Edited May 10, 2013 by AngelLestat

[camlost]

Nice, they look like a shuttle.

I try that configuration before (without those engines) and i found the big problem of center of gravity and lift.

Is really difficult to balance in all the stages of fuel levels.

You use the Throttle Steering mod to control a little more the direction? I find that plugin very usefull. Is something that ksp need to add in the future.

Also you said that you use deadly re-entry mod, I thought that if you dont use the shield´s mod your ship explode.. How really works?

I will post later my last version, I reach 100k orbit already with extra fuel for a DV of 400 m/s, Now I just need a little extra impulse to carry 10 or 20 tons of payload keeping that extra DV.

It will be hard.

But I did it with the fancy design

I assume this is a spaceplane that's capable of SSTO, but where are the wings?

The idea of preventing overheat during re-entry is that, you keep a 30-40 degrees or as high as possible AoA, and use the extra drag to slow down, just like the real world space shuttle.

I think we need to start a new thread in the spacecraft exchange sub-forum to discuss these. I'll be posting my cargoship later there