Is it Possible to have an SSTO landed and come back to a 100km orbit from EVE?

[Climberfx]

Here is the Challenge, i don't think it is possible, until some one do it.

Is it Possible to have an SSTO landed and come back to a 100km orbit from EVE?

On stock+mechjeb only.

No KSPX, no other mod.

To get there you can use infinite fuel+rcs, but from the 100km orbit, to land and then lift of to again a 100km orbit, no refuel, no infinite fuel, and no stages. Just the SSTO Rocket. I think it will need 9000 to 13000 m/s of dV.

Can it be done?

Better if have a kerbin, and better yet if he is in a capsule.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Climberfx

[EndlessWaves]

Simple answer, no. None of the engines even come close to lifting sufficient fuel.

[tavert]

Well that's the common wisdom anyway. It was said landing on Mun and returning with a rocket-only SSTO was impossible, but it isn't. A mountaintop ascent from Eve will be another thousand or so m/s delta-V beyond the Mun land-and-return mission, so it is obviously very hard. But theoretically if you can build up enough horizontal velocity on high-thrust stuff like SRB's or aerospikes for the start of the ascent, you don't need TWR > 1 for the later parts (pseudo-stages, where less efficient engines run out of fuel but you keep carrying them along) so you can potentially cram more fuel than you would think in a nuclear core. The nuclear engine would have lousy Isp for much longer then on Kerbin though, may or may not want to leave it off until past ~12 km.

[foamyesque]

tavert: I've tried a similar approach, and even with FAR, my best numbers were 2km/s horizontal at 60km altitude. It's close and with lower dead mass on the fuel tanks and/or better TWR on the aerospike it might be possible... but as is, it's another 1500m/s minimum that I'd need, and getting that requires a trebling of my fuel-- which would utterly destroy the ship's balance and aerodynamics.

[Just1ChanceFree]

Working on this myself - shouldn't it be more efficient in theory to have both nukes and high-thrust engines that you fire in balance at different times and altitudes?

I'm allowing myself Kethane mod to refuel once on the surface of Eve, jsut have to have a SSTO that can take off afterward and carry all the drills/converter.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Just1ChanceFree

[foamyesque]

Working on this myself - shouldn't it be more efficient in theory to have both nukes and high-thrust engines that you fire in balance at different times and altitudes?

You'd think, but in my experience the dead weight of the nuclear engine absolutely murders the rest of the rocket, and you can't get going high and fast enough for its tiny thrust to do anything; adding more fuel doesn't help, because e'en though your high thrust engines can then get you going higher and faster, the nuke engine has to shove around more dead weight. By the time you get to the point where a nuke engine can actually do anything meaningful you'll probably get more efficiency simply by deleting the darn thing.

[Just1ChanceFree]

Grumble.

Back to the boring aerospikes then

[Climberfx]

Between Aerospikes and LV-T30, i stay with the LV-T30.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Climberfx

[metaphor]

It might be possible using a solar airplane with ion engines, however it would take a very very long time to reach orbit.

[SunJumper]

Yes, the only engine with a feasable isp at sea level, the Aerospike, has a delta-v of 8.4km/s if attached to an infinity of fuel tanks. As metaphor said, only the ion plane idea is possible, yet unfeasable. You only have 12 hours of sunlight, which goes down to about ten with your standard ion plane flight velocity.

[Climberfx]

Yes, the only engine with a feasable isp at sea level, the Aerospike, has a delta-v of 8.4km/s if attached to an infinity of fuel tanks. As metaphor said, only the ion plane idea is possible, yet unfeasable. You only have 12 hours of sunlight, which goes down to about ten with your standard ion plane flight velocity.

Not if you fly to the opposite direction...

[Climberfx]

Yes, the only engine with a feasable isp at sea level, the Aerospike, has a delta-v of 8.4km/s if attached to an infinity of fuel tanks. As metaphor said, only the ion plane idea is possible, yet unfeasable. You only have 12 hours of sunlight, which goes down to about ten with your standard ion plane flight velocity.

Is not only the dV that matter, you need to see TWR versus weight too...

[Ninety-Three]

I don't know nearly enough about the spaceplane part of KSP to be sure about this, but could the sorcery that powers infinigliders be used to cheaply bring a ship up to a decent altitude?

[M5000]

I would love to do an ion plane, but the problem with one on Eve is that the wings would simply be too much mass for the tiny thrust of the ion engines... And any significant speed in Eve's thick atmosphere would rip any serious solar arrays right apart, so the STATs are the only ones you could use, but to provide a proper structure and power for an ion engine enough to actually get to orbit, it'd be impossible, I think.

[Climberfx]

I don't know nearly enough about the spaceplane part of KSP to be sure about this, but could the sorcery that powers infinigliders be used to cheaply bring a ship up to a decent altitude?

In theory, i think could be possible. But is not applicable for the challenge.

But i be happy to see a video of one doing it. Could receive and extra out of board price.

[tavert]

Between Aerospikes and LV-T30, i stay with the LV-T30.

And don't forget SRB's, they have great TWR despite bad Isp. And the dead weight of the small SRB is only half a ton, so they're not as bad to have to carry to orbit as either an aerospike or an LV-T30. They don't last as long of course, but they can be very useful early on.

[Climberfx]

Anyone had tried a Rocket with SRB's only? Or almost?

[The mun]

my first rocket was an srb sure it was in the old demo and only made 9 k

[Stelith61]

I reckon it might be possible to cluster Aerospikes and LV-T's to make it work, along with a high start point. Would it have to carry everything down and up, or could we drop parachutes ect?

I have a Kerbin SSTO that could probably be refitted and refined for the purpose.

[Climberfx]

Stelith61, Jets won't work on Eve. There have atmosphere, but no oxygen on it.

I think the best is to not drop anything, but i can open a little to you drop only the chutes that help you to touch the ground. Bup if amy one can do this without this, will be in your front.

[foamyesque]

This is my current best, with FAR. Couldn't quite get the apoapsis out of the atmosphere, and of course I still need another ~1.5km/s to achieve a proper orbit.

[Climberfx]

This is my current best, with FAR. Couldn't quite get the apoapsis out of the atmosphere, and of course I still need another ~1.5km/s to achieve a proper orbit.

Nice, and powerful SSTO Rocket only.

You try this same configuration, but with LV-T30?

I now it will not be much to get an orbit, but i thing will go a little farder...

[Stelith61]

Who said anything about jets? I'm talking about Torodial Aerospikes.

And the SSTO I referred to is in my rocket builder's thread in my sig. I'd link it directly/post pics here, but I'm on my phone.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Stelith61

[Climberfx]

Who said anything about jets? I'm talking about Torodial Aerospikes.

And the SSTO I referred to is in my rocket builder's thread in my sig. I'd link it directly/post pics here, but I'm on my phone.

Sorry, i assume that because the SSTO is common to be jet. But i have my own SSTO Rocket only too!

[Stelith61]

Sorry, i assume that because the SSTO is common to be jet. But i have my own SSTO Rocket only too!

Understandable.

I've yet to build a jet SSTO that doesn't look like - well - crap. Let alone one that can dock.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Stelith61
sigs aren't automatic on mobile site