[0.23.5] Soviet Soyuz Rocketfamily v2.4 (13.May - Russian Tulip and more)

[GusTurbo]

After re-testing the Horseman lifter, I've found that it has less than 15 tons of payload capacity. I used a 15 ton tester payload and it failed to reach orbit. The good news is that this actually makes it more realistic, because the real Soyuz lifter can carry between 7-8 tons to low earth orbit. So really, my failure is a success.

I actually handicapped the rocket a bit by using LV-T45s in the boosters and 1st stage, so I think I'll swap them out for LV-T30s for a better TWR and more stability.

Edit:

Actually it seems that a big part of the problem is that the upper tanks in my boosters aren't feeding fuel, which doesn't make a lot of sense because radial attachment points are crossfeed capable.

Edited June 2, 2013 by GusTurbo

[Halsfury]

I found a way to make the 1m Soyuz even more realistic

What I did was use x6 RCS stratus tanks and flipped them inside to make the shroud that goes around the engine but it was a complex job putting it all together

I like the angle of the engine shroud, Sadly I don't think it is to scale

I used the R7 pack DL3 Soyuz (I think that's what it's called) and I think that I negatively impacted the amount of bi-propellant since that RCS literally weighs a ton

Edited June 3, 2013 by Halsfury

[GusTurbo]

That's pretty cool. I like the way that looks with the RCS tank shroud.

I'm currently close to releasing an updated Soyuz "Headless" lifter. I've fixed the fuel issues and actually decreased the amount of fuel in the boosters because it made it way overpowered. It now lifts 20 tons easily to a 120x120 orbit, and will probably do 25. I don't want to make it too powerful though because then it would just get silly, like a Soyuz Munshot.

I recently read Temstar's guide on making things work perfectly with subassembly loader. Basically, after I release it, you'll be able to put the craft file in the subassemblies folder and it will be accessible with all of the struts and fuel lines routed correctly.

Edited June 2, 2013 by GusTurbo

[Darth Lazarus]

@ Halsfury: very interesting way. but teh problem would be, that it totally will mess the center of mass xD nevertheless very cool looking.

@Gusturbo: gimme gimme gimme ! xD i need that imrpoved rocket for testing ^^

[Halsfury]

Back @ Darth Lazarus

I haven't had any problems with it but I suppose it would make docking different maybe it needs a linear RCS thruster system somewhere near the back

would be more realistic like that I guess

[GusTurbo]

@ Halsfury: very interesting way. but teh problem would be, that it totally will mess the center of mass xD nevertheless very cool looking.

@Gusturbo: gimme gimme gimme ! xD i need that imrpoved rocket for testing ^^

This should put up any Soyuz-sized or Soyuz-shaped craft you throw at it.

Craft:

http://www./?5p0l9apdfi2n6qd

Action Groups

1. Toggle gimbal on large outer radial engines

2. Toggle small radial engines (24-77) on third stage (if you don't need the TWR or you need to conserve fuel)

Edited June 2, 2013 by GusTurbo

[Halsfury]

GusTurbo

I see that you're pretty talented with parts clipping, if you don't mind helping out I'm looking for a LK lander like this:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/lk.html

I know Mulbin has been all over the LK system with his Muna LK-2 and Duna LK-1 but he has yet to do a version using the Mk1 Landercan which came with .20

I think it would require some crazy parts clipping since you would need to turn the faceted Mk1 Landercan into something that looks like a bathyscaphe with rockets

If not I'm also needing an N1 which is to scale with the 1m Soyuz so that I can make a LOK LK system for Mun missions (I'm thinking of something with a 4m ish maximum diameter)

Edited June 2, 2013 by Halsfury

[GusTurbo]

GusTurbo

I see that you're pretty talented with parts clipping, if you don't mind helping out I'm looking for a LK lander like this:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/lk.html

I know Mulbin has been all over the LK system with his Muna LK-2 and Duna LK-1 but he has yet to do a version using the Mk1 Landercan which came with .20

I think it would require some crazy parts clipping since you would need to turn the faceted Mk1 Landercan into something that looks like a bathyscaphe with rockets

If not I'm also needing an N1 which is to scale with the 1m Soyuz so that I can make a LOK LK system for Mun missions (I'm thinking of something with a 4m ish maximum diameter)

Thanks for the compliment. I really do like challenging the game's constraints and creating new shapes out of the parts provided.

That sounds like a pair of challenges that I would love to take on.

One of the main issues with the smaller N1 will be finding a suitable engine for the first stage. I'm thinking that 30 of the large radial engines should be suitable for the amount of thrust they provide, and the size of the nozzles. Packaging will be a major challenge, but I think I'm up to it.

With the LK, I'm not entirely sure what to do, because I used the 1 kerbal lander can for the full sized version, so I can't go any smaller. It might just have to be something I compromise on and try to make the shape of the whole thing. For the LOK, I can just use the 1-man Soyuz you made, or Darth Lazarus or Mulbin's.

It should be fun though, I'm excited. One of the problems with the full-size N1 is that it has so many parts that it takes forever to make changes and then test. I can do it, but I really have to dedicate a lot of time.

[Halsfury]

I did download the Munstrosity but the payload didn't seem to represent the real deal (somehow I think that if it did it would be 1000 parts or more)

The link I gave in my last post also has all kinds of stuff on the LOK and LK and I think out of all of it the LOK would be easiest since it is a supersized Soyuz payload

I tried to make an LK lander using a similar style to the Soyuz (with the clipped together RCS fairing and a stayputnik on top for docking) but it fell flat

I'm off to make a Proton mun flyby (Zond) with everything I've learned so far and see where that leads

Edited June 3, 2013 by Halsfury

[GusTurbo]

I did download the Munstrosity but the payload didn't seem to represent the real deal (somehow I think that if it did it would be 1000 parts or more)

The link I gave in my last post also has all kinds of stuff on the LOK and LK and I think out of all of it the LOK would be easiest since it is a supersized Soyuz payload

I tried to make an LK lander using a similar style to the Soyuz (with the clipped together RCS fairing and a stayputnik on top for docking) but it fell flat (I'm thinking of using the small radial attachable engines on the outer ring of the since there are so many of them)

I'm off to make a Proton mun flyby (Zond) with everything I've learned so far and see where that leads

Yeah, my main goal for the first Munstrosity was to recreate the lifter, and I'll admit that the payload was a bit of an afterthought. My next version will be more faithful to the real thing, but I'm still working out some functional issues and trying to lower the part count.

[Halsfury]

I did it

1 man Zond circummunar loop with a Proton M variant

It also needed a slightly more powerful service module

launches 5 tons or so into orbit (9 tons maximum lift capacity)

The service module has about 900 Dv once in orbit, (I'm planning a 1300Dv LOK)

http://www./download/n9dgyyqwolf1ub6/Soviet_Proton_M_Zond.craft

Edit: This .craft file was taken down, just thought I'd warn you, you can find the new version in the OKB-1 Energia post in the rocket builders

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/34125-Rocket-Builders-OKB-1-Russian-Rocket-Design-Firm-and-Repository

Edited June 6, 2013 by Halsfury

[GusTurbo]

Very cool, good job!

[Darth Lazarus]

seeing my modified Soyuz near Mun is ... wow ... just wow keep the good work !

[Halsfury]

By any chance could the three of us do a whole new rocket builders post on this stuff? make it a company?

I think that between Darth's R-7 Family, My Proton and Gus's Munstrosity we could make a repository of all Russian based designs

I'll even design the page/forum post

And the Headless Horseman (I forgot about that)

[GusTurbo]

I would love to be a part of that. I've been hesitant to make a page/post like that because I'm not great at organization, but I am totally on board if you do it.

Also, this:

Edited June 4, 2013 by GusTurbo

[Darth Lazarus]

hehe, nice Idea.

but don't forget to ask sgt_flyer. he got the angares family and the Kliper Spacecraft.

[Halsfury]

Alright then I'll PM you the link the second it's made and then you can dump craft links in which I'll edit into the page

one thing though if you have pictures to send send the links so that I can add the pictures, I don;t think I'll be able to just copy paste pictures

It'll take a couple of days I think to make it really good (Need to brush up on HTML)

[Halsfury]

@Darth I think that the three of us should send out a message together to show that it isn't a half baked scheme and that it has some good designers on it

If you guys have no problems with it I'll be sure to mention you guys in connection with this project

BTW what's our name gonna be?

[GusTurbo]

For the name, do you suppose it should be something suitably Russian, like OKB-456 or NPO Energomash?

Edited June 4, 2013 by GusTurbo

[Darth Lazarus]

it should be something which has a conenction to russias spaceprogramm ^^

[GusTurbo]

Maybe Roscosmos (or with a K as is popular for kerbal names)?

[Halsfury]

I was thinking that the forum headline should be OKB-1 [stock] Russian Rocket Repository and BTW what is the parts count on the mini N1 shaping up like?

also @Darth Lazarus I found that the docking setup on your Soyuz (The DL3) glitches out when you dock it with an identical craft (The port on one of the crafts went nuts and I had to jettison it), I expect that this is caused by the parts clipping with the two probe cores (the stayputnik with the large OCKTO inside it mounted on top of two Cubic octagonal struts) and I have had the same problem with using the debug menu in order to clip parts. As a result I choose to get rid of all that stuff and "hand place" the clamp-o-tron jr. on the stayputnik probe core, saving the weight of the OCKTO probe body and two cubic octagonal struts.

I therefore suggest that on all future Soyuz type designs using the stayputnik to symbolize the orbital module that the clamp-o-tron be hand placed and that parts clipping be kept to a minimum around functional components

If you want Darth Lazarus I have a version which is exactly the same as yours but for the fact that the clamp-o-tron jr is hand placed and all that clipped together stuff is gone

Edited June 4, 2013 by Halsfury

[Darth Lazarus]

OKB-1 sounds go to me

what do you plan excatly to post?

edit: the dockingport went nuts? strange, i will look into this problem asap. can you give me your modified Soyuz plz?

Edited June 4, 2013 by Darth Lazarus

[Halsfury]

I'm planning a simple page right now which we can add to as we go

Basically I'm busy aggrandizing our achievements and projects from this thread

http://www./download/6b88sykyba74zo4/Soviet_Soyuz-DL3.craft

Here's my version of the DL3, mind though I didn't change the name (Also running on a mac)

but I fixed it and this craft is stable on my computer

[GusTurbo]

I was thinking that the forum headline should be OKB-1 [stock] Russian Rocket Repository and BTW what is the parts count on the mini N1 shaping up like?

also @Darth Lazarus I found that the docking setup on your Soyuz (The DL3) glitches out when you dock it with an identical craft (The port on one of the crafts went nuts and I had to jettison it), I expect that this is caused by the parts clipping with the two probe cores (the stayputnik with the large OCKTO inside it mounted on top of two Cubic octagonal struts) and I have had the same problem with using the debug menu in order to clip parts. As a result I choose to get rid of all that stuff and "hand place" the clamp-o-tron jr. on the stayputnik probe core, saving the weight of the OCKTO probe body and two cubic octagonal struts.

I therefore suggest that on all future Soyuz type designs using the stayputnik to symbolize the orbital module that the clamp-o-tron be hand placed and that parts clipping be kept to a minimum around functional components

If you want Darth Lazarus I have a version which is exactly the same as yours but for the fact that the clamp-o-tron jr is hand placed and all that clipped together stuff is gone

I like OKB-1.

Also, the Mini N1 has around 600 parts right now, but that includes launch clamps and some struts that I might be able to get rid of. I also used Mulbin's Dunebug as the basis for the LK and LOK, so I might be able to reduce part count further by using your modified version of Darth's Soyuz for the LOK.